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Paseo H
2011-07-20, 04:57 PM
While I think the answer is yes, I wanted to check. Is there a legitimate way to change a character from one race into another? For instance, from a human to a faerie type race, designed to not be quite as powerful as the ones listed?

If no, perhaps we could brainstorm ways to make a convincing houserule that wouldn't require something too massive in power to affect the change?

randomhero00
2011-07-20, 05:02 PM
This trick is controversial, but if you get polymorphed twice to the same race, it's technically permanent. Or some say.

Only other way I can think of is becoming undead.

PS i forget, does nymph's kiss from exalted deeds make you fey type?

edit here is the link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm

see, the first cast makes it last a week i believe if you're going from say, gnome to dwarf. Then get it cast again on you as dwarf while you're still poly'd into a dwarf. Dwarf->to->Dwarf = permanent.

Paseo H
2011-07-20, 05:08 PM
Eh, thanks but I'm looking for something more elegant than that. The nymph kissing thing might work, if it's legitimate.

Talakeal
2011-07-20, 05:16 PM
Savage Species has several magical rituals which permanently transform a character from one race to another.

Ravens_cry
2011-07-20, 06:17 PM
Buy your DM pizza then have your character die and get a maximised reincarnation cast on you.
Why? Because maximise explicitly says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell) that,

All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized.
(Bolded for emphases.)
The maximum numeric effect of reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) is 100, which DM's choice, hence the pizza.

Laura Eternata
2011-07-20, 06:26 PM
Ravens_Cry has it right, especially the pizza bribe. Works every time.

Otherwise, take a look at Savage Species. I don't have the book on me, but I seem to remember something in there that can do something like that.

Paseo H
2011-07-20, 09:47 PM
Anyone got any information on the nymph kiss thing? If that might work, I might have a way to work that into my campaign.

Talakeal
2011-07-20, 09:51 PM
No, Nymph's kiss does not make you fey iirc, however 10 levels of Heart Seeker from the forgotten realms religion book does.

Blue Bandit
2011-07-20, 11:26 PM
I don't know how you define legitimate, but the Players Handbook 2 talks about rebuilding characters and changing their race, class, feats, ect. It suggests having the character go on a quest in order to earn the right to change their race.

I couldn't tell from your post whether you're the DM or the character that wants to change their race. But as a DM, if a character wanted to change into a faerie, I would let him/her discover a long forgotten faerie heritage. Then have them undergo a special quest that aids their fellow faerie kin. For example, have them cleanse a faerie temple from an evil monster that now calls it home. Or maybe a faerie queen's soul is trapped in an enchanted sapphire which is kept in a Red Dragon's hoard. After they complete the quest, the deity of faeries would be so inspired by the characters devotion to their race, that upon request, she transforms the character into a faerie.

Paseo H
2011-07-20, 11:37 PM
I'm the DM.

It's in the working stages at the moment but what I had in mind was the Big Bad would take notice of a prospective subordinate's girlfriend and conclude that by favoring her, she might ensure said subordinate's loyalty.

As a result, she would use some sort of power to "gift" with "power" the girl, changing her into, say, something akin to Celia but with less magical powers.

The Big Bad has a bunch of Wish spells at her disposal but I guess that wouldn't be enough?

Talakeal
2011-07-21, 12:14 AM
I'm the DM.

It's in the working stages at the moment but what I had in mind was the Big Bad would take notice of a prospective subordinate's girlfriend and conclude that by favoring her, she might ensure said subordinate's loyalty.

As a result, she would use some sort of power to "gift" with "power" the girl, changing her into, say, something akin to Celia but with less magical powers.

The Big Bad has a bunch of Wish spells at her disposal but I guess that wouldn't be enough?

Wish can do anything that you, as the DM, think it should. I would consider that a perfectly reasonable wish, and I believe Savage Species has actual rules for changing races / types with Wish.

NecroRebel
2011-07-21, 01:10 AM
As the DM, if you want Wish to be able to do something like this, Wish can do something like this. Keep the exact wording of the Wish secret (or don't have one at all) or require multiple Wishes to accomplish this task if you don't want the players utilizing the effect, or have some form of backlash that would be undesirable for the players but not for the BBEG.

Really, though, as DM you could just say "yeah, they happened to have access to the materials and knowledge necessary to use this rare ritual. No, you can't get the materials." You could even have the necessary materials be something that the players could get but won't, for instance phoenix liver, unicorn brain, a gallon of liquid pain, and nymphs from whom a gallon of liquid pain has been extracted. You know, Really Evil stuff.

TheOOB
2011-07-21, 02:13 AM
Buy your DM pizza then have your character die and get a maximised reincarnation cast on you.
Why? Because maximise explicitly says (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell) that,

(Bolded for emphases.)
The maximum numeric effect of reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) is 100, which DM's choice, hence the pizza.

I'm fairly certain reincarnate doesn't benefit from maximise spell. Maximise spell maximises "All variable, numeric effects" of the spell, the effect of reincarnate is not numeric at all, but rather a race, the numeric part is simply a table to help decide the effect.

Feriority
2011-07-21, 04:09 AM
If you're not too attached to being fey specifically and you're okay with Psionics, Elan are actually humans converted by some very secret psionic process to enhance their innate psionic abilities and give them clinical immortality to go with it. It's typically a secret society thing - the Elan are a secret society who alone possess the knowledge to make more Elan, and presumably the process requires enough of them that a single person can't betray the society and give away all their secrets. You could either have the big bad have some sway with this society - they aren't inherently good or evil - or refluff the process to be a rare secret not actually tied to an organization, and have him have access to that knowledge somehow.

Being cool and psychic is almost as good as being fey, right? Right?:smallfrown:

Mastikator
2011-07-21, 04:36 AM
I'm the DM.

Rule 0 it or homebrew a way. That is legitimate.

Paseo H
2011-07-21, 09:00 AM
I actually have kept psionics out of my game, because at the time of making it I wanted to avoid the whole "using empathy to figure out who the Big Bad is five minutes in" thing. Thanks for the advice anyway.

As for being the DM, well, it's not true that my will is always law. I could do anything but then if it was too dumb they could decide I'm no longer competent to DM.

Yeah I can homebrew it, that's why I'm here, to help come up with plausible homebrews.

Xuc Xac
2011-07-21, 09:10 AM
While I think the answer is yes, I wanted to check. Is there a legitimate way to change a character from one race into another?

It depends on what game you're playing. In Cyberpunk 2020, you can just get cosmetic surgery. I'm sure Transhuman Space or Eclipse Phase make it even easier. There are as many answers as there are games.

LibraryOgre
2011-07-21, 09:41 AM
I'm fairly certain reincarnate doesn't benefit from maximise spell. Maximise spell maximises "All variable, numeric effects" of the spell, the effect of reincarnate is not numeric at all, but rather a race, the numeric part is simply a table to help decide the effect.

IIRC, the design goal of making something a d% roll, instead of a "check" was to put it beyond numerical fiddling, except in rare circumstances (i.e. a Luckstone). So, I'd have to agree that Maximize reincarnate would not work that way.

HunterOfJello
2011-07-21, 10:26 AM
A draw from the Deck of Transformations can change a person's race permanently. Then again, it can also turn them into a toad through Baleful Polymorph.

Honest Tiefling
2011-07-21, 11:56 AM
The Heartwarder would not work, as it needs a particular god. Unless the DM decides to file off the serial numbers and to make the BBEG follow a god of beauty (Maybe a god of beauty and manipulation?). Then, the BBEG simply instructs the NPC on how to take the class, guiding her to become a fey and giving her several charisma boosts.

The PCs cannot complain if you tell them that they can also take Forgotten Realms prestige classes (EXCEPT THE INCANTRIX) with a bit of filing off.

Kiss of the Nymph would not work unless there was an evil verison granted by evil nymphs. I'd say that is pretty reasonable as evil fey keep popping in, but no idea if the party agrees.

There is also the idea that the BBEG awakens sorcererous powers in the NPC. Maybe they had the feyblood all along and all it took was a bit of a jolt to get them. They would then progress as a sorcerer. Maybe give them a stat boost by giving them the same stats as the PCs. The PCs can do the same thing and by simply taking sorcererer levels.

If you need a Fey Race, I suggest Fey Touched from Fiend Folio. It is not a pureblood fey, but your PC probably doesn't want his girlfriend to come back looking all creepy.

Paseo H
2011-07-21, 12:01 PM
Yeah I'm still working out just what to do.

One possibility I considered was that the girl could pass for normal most of the time, and have the fae side as like a transformation.

Honest Tiefling
2011-07-21, 12:03 PM
Fey Touched is technically a template, so if you find a way to stick it onto something, you are good to go. I think Half-fey is as well, but it might be wandering into freaky looks territory.

Mastikator
2011-07-21, 01:15 PM
Yeah I can homebrew it, that's why I'm here, to help come up with plausible homebrews.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

A similar but with one change, you lose one extra level per LA and racial HD and perhaps some extra expensive material component.

If the party does not have a 15th level wizard or 16th level sorceror then they can just hire one for an extra 1200 gp.

Or you could just go with the reincarnation. Or polymorph any object (which is dispel-able!!!).

Tetsubo 57
2011-07-22, 09:51 AM
Isn't that sort of the point to the Dragonborn?

Though why would you want to do this?

MickJay
2011-07-22, 10:04 AM
Ask the GM what level a spell you can call 'Guided Reincarnation' and effects of which you describe in detail would be, then research it (or find someone to research it for you). It's that simple :smallwink:

Paseo H
2011-07-23, 10:55 AM
Isn't that sort of the point to the Dragonborn?

Though why would you want to do this?

I suddenly have a taste for the fey, though I might not necessarily want to make them a full bore fey.

Dr.Epic
2011-07-23, 01:09 PM
Savage Species has several magical rituals which permanently transform a character from one race to another.

^This, though I never read much of the book so I'm not sure how much help this can be.

Mikeavelli
2011-07-23, 01:50 PM
IIRC, the design goal of making something a d% roll, instead of a "check" was to put it beyond numerical fiddling, except in rare circumstances (i.e. a Luckstone). So, I'd have to agree that Maximize reincarnate would not work that way.

Get your DM to say 'yes' to the Maximized Reincarnate anyways, then throw a Maximized Empowered Reincarnate at him.

Come back as a null pointer or overflow error.

claricorp
2011-07-23, 03:39 PM
Die, then get lucky with reincarnation seems to be the only way that pops into my head.

Paseo H
2011-07-23, 08:50 PM
Crazy Homebrew Idea Number 1:

Some sort of blood alchemy, that transmutes normal blood into fey blood.

LrdoftheRngs
2011-07-23, 11:48 PM
Interesting story idea:
The subordinate's girlfriend dies in an accident. Subordinate is crushed. The BBEG wants to secure his loyalty, so BBEG reincarnates the girl. Then you fudge a 100 off screen.

Subordinate is overjoyed at the fact that his girlfriend has come back from the dead. But she s fundamentally changed. She is not the girl he knew or loved. Cue her rejection by her boyfriend. she is depressed, and tries to take her own life. The PCs see her about to do whatever she is going to do, and they can stop her and console her. She could then provide them with info about the BBEG or possibly even join them as an ally.

Just throwing this idea out there.

Paseo H
2011-07-24, 11:30 AM
It's certainly a good idea, and death would be especially meaningful to said subordinate, but not sure it would fit with what I had in mind.

Good imagination you have there, though.