PDA

View Full Version : Vote up a new monster species



Pages : [1] 2

137beth
2011-07-20, 06:22 PM
The goal of this thread is to create an entirely new living and breathing species (unless it is a species which does not breathe, of course) that is ready for use in most (3.5) games. When the non-mechanical aspects of the creature need to be decided, I will either (a)decide myself, (b)come up with a few ideas and put them to a vote, or (c)open the thread up to discussion, decide what the most popular ideas are, and then put it up for a vote.

The monster as it stands so far:
Monster
Tiny Plant (Shapechanger, Swarm, Cold)
HD 17d8 +68hp (161 hp)
Speed Fly 50 ft. (Good), Burrow 30 ft.
Init:+3 (or more from feats)
AC 17 (+2 size, +3 dex, +3 natural); touch 14; flat-footed 14
BAB +12; Grp -
Attack: Swarm (4d6)
Full-Attack: Swarm (4d6)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks
Special Qualities swarm traits, plant traits, Half damage from slashing and piercing, immune to cold, vulnerable to fire, low-light vision, hivemind, Change Shape, Telepathy (100 ft), Tremorsense (70 ft), Scent (30 ft)
Saves Fort +14 Ref +8 Will +5 (potentially more from feats and racial traits).
Abilities Str 3, Dex 16, Con 19, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Bluff +8, Concentration +10, Diplomacy +5, Disguise +8, Escape Artist +5, Gather Information +4, Hide +14, Intimidate +5, Listen +2, Move Silently +17, Knowledge (nature) +13, Perform (dance) +8, Search +5, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +5, Spot +3, Survival +5, Use Magic Device +6 (Includes ability bonuses but NOT racial modifiers OR synergy bonuses.)
Feats At least 6 feats plus bonus feats.
Environment
Organization
Challenge Rating
Treasure
Alignment: Usually Chaotic Neutral
Advancement
Level Adjustment

Combat

Change Shape (Su):
The ___ can assume any of several alternate forms as a free action. These use the rules for the Change Shape special quality in the Monster Manual.
First, it can assume the form of an Ice Golom (Frostburn).
It can also assume the shape of a Dryad (MM) or a Winter Wolf (MM).
Finally, it can take the form of any ordinary plant. The ordinary plant form must either be a bunch of tiny or smaller plants (e.g. moss, grass), or a single plant of huge or smaller, or a collection of plants which take up space no larger than that of a huge creature. In this form, it cannot move or make any kind of attacks, nor can it use any of its special attacks which require actions. It retains all of its perceptive abilities, which it can use to get a surprise attack on unsuspecting travelers. It has all of its normal immunities, vulnerabilities and resistances, as well as hardness 5. It can switch to another of its forms (including another ordinary plant form) at will.



Phase 1: Creature Type
Let's start with one of the most important decisions: creature type. You may vote for as many types as you want (just not all of them:smallwink:), but you may not give multiple votes to the same type.


{table=head]Type | Votes
Aberration | 3
Animal | 3
Construct | 2
Dragon | 1
Elemental | 0
Fey | 6
Giant | 6
Humanoid | 2
Magical Beast | 2
Monstrous Humanoid | 3
Ooze | 6
Outsider | 0
Plant | 12
Undead | 1
Vermin | 5[/table]

And plant is the winner!

The voting for subtypes will take occur in two separate phases. The first phase will narrow the choices down to the top 5, and the second phase will determine the top three. Notice that "none" is listed as a subtype. If "none" gets 1st place in the second phase, then the plant will have no subtypes. If none gets 2nd place, the creature will have only 1 subtype (whichever got first place), ect. If "none" is not in the top 3, then the creature will have 3 subtypes. The creature will not have more than three subtypes. Also note that I have purposely omitted subtypes that don't make sense for a plant, such as goblinoid.
For this phase, you may again give one vote to as many subtypes as you like (just not all). You also get a single "detractor" vote. The detractor vote subtracts one point from your least favorite subtype. You do not need to use your detractor vote if you don't want to.
Phase 2: Subtypes, part 1
{table=head]Subtype | Votes
Air | 2
Aquatic | 0
Chaotic | 4
Cold | 9
Earth | 0
Evil | 0
Extraplanar | 0
Fire | 3
Good | -1
Incorporeal | 6
Lawful | 0
Shapechanger | 6
Swarm | 6
Water | 0
None | 0[/table]



Phase 3: Subtypes, part 2
{table=head]Subtype | Points
Cold | 3
Chaotic | 0.75
Incorporeal | 0.75
Shapechanger | 10
Swarm | 6[/table]

Now, it is time for the second part of subtype selection! For this round, Rank all 5 choices from best to worst. Your first choice is the best, 5th choice is the worst (unless, of course, you specify otherwise in your post. If you don't I will assume the first subtype you list is your favorite). Voting will close on July 30, at which point we will move on to size. Note that due to the nature of the scoring system for this phase (see below), I won't be continually updating the scores after every vote, instead I will copy every vote into a separate program and post the final scores at the end. If you do not rank all of your choices, I will place your unranked choices in a RANDOM order.
You don't really need to know how I will be determining the winning subtypes (you just have to rank the choices from your favorite to your least favorite). But if you are interested, here is the scoring system (spoiled to avoid cluttering the thread):
The subtypes essentially enter into a tournament of 1 vs 1 "duels." Each duel is really a separate poll. I could have 10 different voting periods, but that would take much longer, and this system is much easier. For each duel, I will look at your choices, and if you ranked subtype A better than subtype B, then I will assume you voted for A in the A vs. B duel. The tournament structure is all vs. all, so there will be 10 matches:
Cold vs. Chaotic: 9 to 7
Cold vs. Incorporeal: 9 to 7
Cold vs. Shapechanger: 5 to 11
Cold vs. Swarm: 7 to 9
Chaotic vs. Incorporeal: 8 to 8 *
Chaotic vs. Shapechanger:6 to 10
Chaotic vs. Swarm:5 to 11
Incorporeal vs. Shapechanger:5 to 11
Incorporeal vs. Swarm: 4 to 12
Shapechanger vs. Swarm:10 to 6
*for scoring purposes, a tie is 1/2 of a win.

Now for the actual scoring system. Suppose subtype A wins x matches. Then A becomes a x+1 point subtype: meaning that every other subtype which defeats A gains x+1 points. So for example, if chaotic won 3 matches, and then cold beat chaotic, then cold would gain 4 tournament points. Basically, this system takes into account not only how many matches you win, but how tough the opponents you beat were.

And the monster will have the top three subtypes selected!

The winning subtypes are Shapechanger, Cold, and Swarm!

Phase 4: Size
Well, I HAD a wonderfully complicated voting system for determining size, that would be quite time-consuming to explain AND to actually use. But that was under the assumption that the size could be anything from fine to colossal. Since y'all decided to make this monster a swarm, the size of an individual component creature (which is what we'll be voting on) can only be fine, diminutive, or tiny. This allows us to switch to a much simpler and faster voting system.
Again, rank your choices from favorite to least favorite. The method by which I compare votes is much simpler this time. First, I will count through everyone's first choice, and eliminate the size with the fewest votes. After that, I will count through the votes again, and if your first choice was eliminated, I will assume you voted for your second favorite.

Since there are only 6 permutations of choices, I will give each one its own row in my table:
{table=head]1st choice | 2nd | 3rd |votes
Fine | Diminutive|Tiny|7
Fine | Tiny|Diminutive|
Diminutive | Fine|Tiny|1
Diminutive |Tiny|Fine|3
Tiny | Fine|Diminutive|1
Tiny|Diminutive|Fine|6[/table]
And Tiny is the winner!

Phase 5: Target Challenge Rating

This vote will NOT decide the actual CR (that will be much later in the process). The target CR is primarily to give us an idea of how much flexibility we have in assigning special abilities/qualities (if the target CR is 20, we can pretty much come up with whatever powers we want, while if it is 1 then we are very limited. This also gives us an idea of what ability scores are reasonable.
The target CR will be at least 1, but no more than 20. There are a few reasons for this. First, if the CR is below 1, we have very little freedom in selecting SA/SQs, and the monster will likely end up bland/similar to other monsters. As for epic monsters, many campaigns do not contain epic characters, so a monster with a CR significantly above 20 is less likely to be useable. That being said, if you all select a high target CR, and then give it a bunch of SAs, and the final CR is above 20, that is okay, since most non-epic games have some monsters over CR 20.

Now, for the actual voting system, just choose any number in the interval [1,20], and I will average your votes together. If you give non-integer votes, you win the post directly above yours (sorry, you don't win the whole thread).

Voting will end August 5th, at which point we will move on to HD.
The target CR is 12! Remember, this does not in any way mean the final CR will be 12, it just means that the SAs, SQs, and ability scores we give it should be reasonable for a CR 12 monster.

Phase 6: Available Movement Types
In this phase, we will decide what modes of movement the plant can make. We will NOT be deciding the exact speeds (those come later). Simply list whichever movement modes you think should be available. Note that because it is a swarm, its melee attacks have reach 0, and therefore not being able to move would make it nearly harmless (unless it had some really good ranged attacks...).
{table=head]Mode | Can | Can't
Normal | 2|7
Burrow |7|2
Climb | 0|9
Fly |8|1
Swim |1|8[/table]

And the winners are Burrow and fly! The creature does NOT have normal movement.

Phase 7: Hit dice and non-abilities
In this phase we will be deciding two things. First, we will decide how many hit-dice the creature has. Then we will decide how many of its ability scores exist. Because it is a monster, it must have both a wisdom and charisma score. And since it is alive, it has a constitution score. It has a physical body (not incorporeal), and can move, so it must be able to exert force, and therefore has a strength and dexterity score. The real question, then, is whether it has an intelligence score.
Vote either "intelligent" or "mindless". Or any rephrasing of the two which I can understand (has/doesn't have intelligence, ect.) Also vote for the number of hit dice you would like the creature to have. The HD given must be in the closed interval [12,36], so limit your votes to this range. At the end I will average your votes together.

And the monster has 17 HD, and all 6 ability scores!

Phase 8: Ability Scores, Part 1
Now, it is finally time to decide on ability scores! Vote once for each ability, in the specified range. The available ranges are:
Str: 1-11
Dex: 6-23
Con: 4-23
Int:1-22*
Wis:1-22
Cha:1-22

*Later, we will decide if this is true intelligence or a hivemind intelligence.



Phase 9: Ability Scores, Part 2

The previous vote has narrowed every ability to a 2-point range:
Str: 2-3
Dex:16-17
Con:18-19
Int:15-16
Wis:9-10
Cha:14-15

Like other monsters, the base attributes will be based on the standard NPC array: 11,11,11,10,10,10, meaning that it must have 3 even and 3 odd ability scores. In this phase, we will determine which ability scores are even, which, combined with the previous phase, will determine the exact ability (e.g. if we decide that constitution is odd, then it will be 19, but if con is even, it will be 18).
To vote, choose the THREE ability scores that you want to be EVEN. Keep in mind that this decision is slightly more significant for intelligence and wisdom, because it could change their ability modifier (the other four modifiers have been set by the previous vote). The three abilities with the most votes will be even, and the other three will be odd.
{table=head]Ability|Votes
Strength|5
Dexterity|6
Constitution|2
Intelligence|6
Wisdom|6
Charisma|2[/table]

And the final ability scores are:
Str: 3
Dex: 16
Con: 19
Int: 16
Wis:10
Cha:15

Phase 10: Speed and Maneuverability

So, earlier, we decided that the monster can burrow and fly. We will now decide how fast it moves, and how good its maneuverability is. This phase is really three separate votes:
First, pick a burrow speed between 5 and 40 ft.
Then, pick a fly speed between 30 and 70 ft.

Finally, rank the maneuverability options from favorite to least favorite (e.g. Average, Good, Poor, Perfect, Clumsy). The scoring system for the maneuverability is a slight variation on the scoring system used in Phase 3 of this thread, but the voting process is identical. As in phase 3, your first choice is the best, 5th choice is the worst (unless, of course, you specify otherwise in your post. If you don't I will assume the first subtype you list is your favorite).

{table=head]Maneuverability | Points
clumsy |0
poor |1
average |3
good |9
perfect |3[/table]
And the results are: Burrow 30 ft, fly 50 ft with Good maneuverability!

Phase 11: Alignment, part 1
The vote on alignment will have three parts. First, we will decide the frequency of the most common alignment (always, usually, often, or any). If we pick always, usually, or often, then we will decide what the most common alignment actually is (if we pick "any", then we will skip the next two phases). Once again, rank your choices from favorite to least favorite (always, usually, often, or any).
{table=head]Maneuverability | Points
Always |0
Usually |6
Often |3
Any |1[/table]

And the winner is, Usually!

Phase 12: Alignment, part 2
This is really 3 separate votes. There are three "matches" of 3 alignments each. In EACH group, rank your choices from favorite to least favorite (e.g. "LG,N,CE; NG,CN,LE; CG,LN,NE"). The top choice from each group will move on to the next phase. Voting will end August 20th, at which point we will move on to the FINAL ALIGNMENT phase!

Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil

Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil

Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil
And the winners are: True neutral, Chaotic Neutral, and Neutral Evil!

Phase 13: Alignment, part 3:
So, now we can finally determine the alignment! The three options left are True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, and Neutral Evil. Rank them from favorite to least favorite, as usual.
The final alignment is Chaotic Neutral!

Phase 14-15: Natural Armor and Hivemind:
I know you're all thinking, "Wha?!? 2 phases at once?!?" (okay probably not). Each of these phases are simple enough that we can put them together.
Phase 14 is determining the natural armor. Keep in mind that, unless it is increased later by feats (which is quite possible), the monster's AC is currently 15+Natural Armor. While 15 is quite low for a CR 12 monster, it also doesn't make much sense for this to have a high natural armor. I think the best solution may be to give it a SQ which grants a deflection bonus...but we're not there yet:smallamused: Also, remember that it is very resistant to weapon damage, and immune to ranged touch attack spells (since they all target a specific number of creatures), so a low AC isn't all that big of a deal.
So, pick a NA between 0 and 10.

Now for hivemind. We previously decided that the creature had an intelligence score. Now, we will decide whether it is true intelligence, or a hivemind mimicking intelligence. We are NOT using the absurd hivemind rules from BoVD!!
No, we are NOT giving it a ridiculous number of sorcerer levels. Rather, I mean the sort of hivemind described under hellwasp swarm:
Hive Mind (Ex)

Any hellwasp swarm with at least 1 hit point per Hit Die (or 12 hit points, for a standard hellwasp swarm) forms a hive mind, giving it an Intelligence of 6. When a hellwasp swarm is reduced below this hit point threshold, it becomes mindless.
Except that in this case, its effective Int would be 16.
Just vote either "hivemind" or "no hivemind", or any variation that I can understand.


And the winners are Yes Hivemind and +3 natural armor!
Phase 16: Skill Points:
We are not deciding the final skill modifier in this phase. We ARE fully allocating the skill points. However, it may still get additional bonuses from racial traits (decided later) or feats (also decided later).
As a 17 HD plant with Int 16, the swarm gets 100 skill points, and a maximum of 20 per skill. Because any skill mentioned in a monster's stat block is assumed to be a class skill, we can assume during this phase that every skill is a class skill.
To vote, either
a)Distribute skill points however you want, to as many CORE skills as you want, provided that no skill gets more than 20 points, and that the total skill points is 100, or
b)Just list 5 skills, and I will assume you put 20 into each.

As with some previous votes, you CAN give non-integer skill points to some skills. You can NOT however, give negative skill ranks (or imaginary skill ranks.)
And the creature has:
Knowledge (arcane) 4
Bluff 6
Concentration 6
Diplomacy 3
Disguise 6
Escape 2
Gather Information 2
Hide 11
Intimidate 3
Listen 2
Move silently 14
Knowledge (nature) 10
Perform (dance) 6
Search 2
Sense Motive 9
Spellcraft 2
Spot 3
Survival 5
Use Magic Device 4

Phase 17: Shapechange ability, part 1:
So it is a shapechanger, and now, we need to decide what it can change into! In this phase, we are just listing ideas for what it can turn into. It could either shapechange into another swarm, or into a single larger creature. Of course, it could have multiple alternate forms as well.
Over the next few days, I will be compiling a list of possible alternate forms, both that I think up, and that anyone posts on this thread. After that, there will be a vote on the alternate forms. It might have only one other form, it might be able to assume the form of any monster posted on this thread, y'all will decide.
If you decide to submit ideas for alternate forms, keep a few things in mind:
1. The stats for the alternate form should exist: It could be a creature in any of the WotC or third party books. It could even be a homebrewed creature from another thread. But its stats should exist. The goal is for this monster to be useable in a game.
2. Don't make it too powerful:A CR 12 monster shouldn't be able to transform into a Tarrasque. An alternate form could be weak (e.g. turn into a halfling to ambush opponents), but it shouldn't be substantially more powerful.

Other than that, any ideas are accepted. This phase will end September 2, at which point we will actually vote on alternate forms.
The list so far:


Other Ideas
1. Ice Golom (FrostBurn)--137ben
2. Oaken Defender (MM IV)--137ben
3. Ordinary plant--RedWarrior0
4. Takes the form of whatever it kills with swarm damage--RedWarrior0
5. Any Humanoid--Togath
6. Any Monstrous Humanoid--Togath
7. Dryad--TravelLog
8. Frost Giant--TravelLog
9. Treant--TravelLog
10.Winter Wolf--TravelLog
11.Myconid Sovereign (MMII)--TravelLog
12.Sporebat (FF)--TravelLog
13.Barghest--TravelLog
14.Obliviax (Dragon Magazine)--TravelLog
15.Animate object shape--Zagan
16.Violet Fungus--Maraxus1
17.Shambling Mound--Maraxus1
18.Any animal--Maraxus1
19.Scales on a basilisk--Veklim
20.Feathers of an Owlbear--Veklim
21.Ice Para-elemental (MotP)--dethkruzer
New Homebrew!
22. Winter Creature Template
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11734709&postcount=279)--Maraxus1
23. White Wyrmling Swarm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11758032&postcount=286)--137ben
Late-comers to the list
24.Any plant creature
25.Thorn (MM3)
Phase 18: Shapechange ability, part 2
Now, we have a strong list of 25 alternate forms, and its time to decide which ones will be included in the final monster!
You can see the choices in the above phase. Note: plague brush was chopped from the list because it is too powerful for a CR 12ish monster.
Vote for as many as you want (you could even vote for all of them).
The monster may get one alternate form, it may get more, it may even get all 25, depending on your votes.
When voting, either list the numbers of the forms you would like to see included, or list the alternate forms with their number.

And the winner is:
1. Ice Golom (Frostburn)
3. Ordinary Plant
7. Dryad
10.Winter Wolf

Phase 19: Special Qualities, Part 1
It is time to decide what, if any, special qualities our monster has. I have listed a bunch of possible special qualities (almost everything in the monster manual/SRD which makes sense that it does not already have) below. Vote for as many as you like. For ease of tallying, please include the option numbers from the list in your vote. You can list just the numbers, or the numbers and the qualities.
Notice that abilities which are essentially variants of each other (e.g. fast healing/regeneration, blindsense/blind fight) have been lumped together. For these, treat them as a single ability in this phase. We will decide which variant of the winning abilities the monster has in the next phase. This also applies to numerical boosts (such as racial skill modifiers) and qualities with a numerical parameter (e.g., if you want it to have any amount of damage reduction, vote for "damage reduction," and we will decide the amount of damage reduction it has in the next phase).
Also note that it already has a significant number of special qualities from its type and subtypes--these are omitted from the list below.
(In case you are wondering about the process, there is no fixed number of special qualities which will move on--I will apply an integer-valued-data clustering algorithm to determine which qualities received a significant number of votes, and all of these will be included.)

The list:

1. Vision improvement (blindsight/blindsense/darkvision etc., note that as a plant, it already has low-light vision).
2. Energy immunity/resistance (note that it already has immunity to cold)
3. Resistance/immunity to slashing, bludgeoning, or piercing damage (any or all)
4.Damage Reduction
5.Immunity/resistance to death effects
6.Immunity/resistance to disease
7.Ethereal/incorporeal
8.Evasion/Improved Evasion
9.Fast Healing/Regeneration
10.Frightful Presence
11.Gaseous Form
12. Invisibility
13.Other perception improvements (tremorsense/scent/etc)
14.Spell Immunity(possibly only to certain spells or schools)/Spell Resistance
15.Telepathy
16.Energy vulnerability (it is already vulnerable to fire)
17.Racial bonus to Fortitude
18.Racial bonus to Reflex
19.Racial bonus to Will
20.Racial bonus to some skills
21.Other (if this wins, we will have a nominating process sort of like phase 17 was, then vote on specific suggestions).
And the winners are:
13.Other perception improvements (tremorsense/scent/etc)
15.Telepathy
Now, we need to make these more precise.
Phase 20: Telepathy (Special Qualities Part 2)
In this phase, we are voting on how potent its telepathy is. The options are:

Standard Telepathy (as described in the monster manual and the SRD, can communicate like normal speech with anyone within 100 feet who has any language
Language dependent (as standard telepathy, but all communicants must share a language)
Improved Telepathy (by focusing on a specific creature, it can communicate with any creature who has a language and is on the same plane, regardless of distance)
Sending only (as standard, but the monster cannot hear others' thoughts, only send out its own)
Receiving only (as standard, but others cannot hear the monster's thoughts, it can still hear their thoughts)
Short Range (as standard telepathy, but only 30 ft range)

Vote for any three. Voting for this phase will close May 27, at which point we will move on to voting on other perceptive qualities, before going to special attacks!
And the winner is: Standard Telepathy (as described in the monster manual and the SRD, can communicate like normal speech with anyone within 100 feet who has any language)

Phase 21: Perceptive enhancements (Special Qualities Part 3)

We previously decided that it had some form of either Scent or Tremorsense. For this round, vote either Scent, Tremorsense, or Both. It will have any abilities included in a majority of votes (so if for example 2 people vote both, two vote tremorsense, and 1 votes scent, then tremorsense would have 3 votes out of 5 and be included, while scent would not. On the other hand, if 6 people vote both, 4 vote tremorsense, and 3 vote scent, then both would be included.)

Also include a maximum range for each ability, in the case that that ability makes it in (range for scent should be between 10 and 50 feet (it is 30 on most monsters), and the range for tremorsense should be between 20 and 100 feet (it is usually 60).
And the winners are:
Tremorsense, 70 ft
Scent, 30 ft
Phase 22: Special Attacks, Part 1
It is time to decide what, if any, special attacks our monster has. I have listed a bunch of possible special attacks (almost everything in the monster manual/SRD which makes sense that it does not already have) below. Vote for as many as you like. For ease of tallying, please include the option numbers from the list in your vote. You can list just the numbers, or the numbers and the attacks.
Note: Spell-like abilities are one option. Certain SLAs could also fall under a different category, but I am counting them only as SLAs in this phase.
Also: Some of these special attack possibilities could be combined or added on to its natural swarm attack. We will probably vote on how these are used in a later phase.
The list:
1.Ability damage/drain
2. Spell-like abilities
3. Breath weapon (a bunch of tiny plants breathing at you...)
4. A charm/domination/compulsion attack
5. Death effect
6. Disease effect
7. Negative levels/energy drain
8. Fear effect
9. Paralysis attack
10. Poison
11. Summon (summon others of its kind, or other ice monsters...or something else)
12. Other (please specify)
Voting will close June 9, at which point we will narrow down the effects of each winning special attack!

BillyBobJoe
2011-07-20, 06:26 PM
I vote for Ooze, Vermin, and Abberation. :smalltongue:

Togath
2011-07-20, 06:32 PM
I vote plant, monstrous humanoid, and giant

deuxhero
2011-07-20, 06:42 PM
Plant, animal, and humanoid, because it's rare to see monsters with them (Mostly being magical beasts and m. humanoids)

Bob
2011-07-20, 06:49 PM
ooze - personal pref.
abberation - these are always really fun to design
monsterous humanoid - this is my indy pick


... and ill second plant

randomhero00
2011-07-20, 06:58 PM
Hmmmmm..... Vote for plant

And I already have an idea for it. It'd kind of be like a swarm, but wouldn't count as one (though it'd definitely have DR and energy resistance to a lot of things). Anyways, it'd look like a 20 foot tall writhing mass of vines. And sentient of course.

It moves by forming a sphere and sticking out its vines like tiny legs. Moving like this is similar to a charge, no turning ability. But very very fast.

Once it gets to where it wants it forms a vaguely humanoid shape. It then has 2 modes. Offense: walks on two legs at 30 movespeed. Defense: It roots itself into the ground (free action, but only once a turn...in other words its legs go to ground while its arms attack). Same deal if it needs to unroot.

Sounds like a penalty for defense right? No mobility? Well by doing this it gains two things. Same as Troll Regen (as it pulls nutrients from the ground) And an attack that sends its roots underground and up under someone to grapple them from far away (range 40ft).

Thats the gist of my idea. Feel free to fill in the details.

Domriso
2011-07-20, 08:13 PM
I vote for Giant, Ooze and Vermin. They need some love.

Arcran
2011-07-20, 08:50 PM
Definately plant. Plant monsters are funny

Lappy9000
2011-07-20, 08:52 PM
I vote for Ooze, Plant, and Vermin.

The Witch-King
2011-07-20, 10:33 PM
Construct, fey, giant, humanoid and monstrous humanoid.

Timeless Error
2011-07-21, 07:31 AM
I vote for Fey and Giant.

Pokonic
2011-07-21, 03:50 PM
Fey and Plant.

Nicky
2011-07-21, 09:49 PM
Ooze, Plant and Vermin

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-07-22, 12:31 PM
I vote for...

Plant
Aberration
Undead
and Vermin.

Debihuman
2011-07-22, 12:34 PM
I vote for Animal, Giant and Plant.

Zale
2011-07-22, 01:05 PM
I vote for Fey, Construct and Magical Beast.

Zeta Kai
2011-07-22, 01:20 PM
Plant.......

DracoDei
2011-07-22, 09:46 PM
Animal - Always fun, and if you go "Non-real-world, but no supernatural powers" can be sorta "Magical Beast Lite"(see below)
Fey Lotta different direction to take this... actually a bit hard to do well (IE without just rehashing what already exists, but I figure you could give it a shot.
Magical Beast because while there are a lot of them, I feel it is a category that invites endless variety. (unlike Outsiders, which tend to devolve into simplistic alignment-based architypes all too often as far as personalities and, to a lesser extent, powers go).

thetobias
2011-07-24, 04:23 AM
Fey
Giant
Dragon

Hey, why not make it a giant fey dragon (diminuitive size class ofc)? :smallwink:

Veklim
2011-07-24, 06:41 AM
I vote ooze and plant, and would actually rather like to see a plant ooze...but that's just me!:smallbiggrin:

137beth
2011-07-24, 09:50 AM
Voting is now closed. Plant wins by a huge margin. Now, we'll move on to subtypes...
EDIT: voting is now open!

Timeless Error
2011-07-24, 10:53 AM
Air, Cold, None. Detract from Aquatic.

Zale
2011-07-24, 11:28 AM
Air, Chaotic, Incorporeal.

I don't think I've ever seen an Incorporeal plant. :smallbiggrin:

Detract from None. Let's pile on the sub-types. :smallwink:

paddyfool
2011-07-24, 11:40 AM
Shapechanger, Swarm, and None (that last stipulation because if None falls below 0, things get too crazy).
Detract from: Extraplanar

zagan
2011-07-24, 01:32 PM
How did I miss this thread ? :smallconfused:

Anyway, I'll vote for Incorporeal, Shapechanger and Swarm
and I detract from None, I want as many subtype as possible.

Temotei
2011-07-24, 01:44 PM
I'll vote for Air and Cold and detract from None.

paddyfool
2011-07-24, 01:51 PM
So None is on -2, Aquatic and Extraplanar on -1, and everything else on 0 or positives...

Based on the voting so far, and the ruling that this monster will have every subtype which scores higher than "None", this monster will have every subtype. :smalleek:

Doh! Missed the "Not more than 3 subtypes" stipulation.

Temotei
2011-07-24, 01:53 PM
Based on the voting so far, and the ruling that this monster will have every subtype which scores higher than "None", this monster will have every subtype. :smalleek:

It won't have more than three.

EDIT NINJA!

Pokonic
2011-07-24, 02:07 PM
Incorporeal, Shapechanger and Air.

wiimanclassic
2011-07-24, 02:10 PM
Cold, Air, Aquatic.

Nopraptor
2011-07-24, 02:37 PM
I vote for Incorporeal and Fire

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-07-24, 03:23 PM
I vote for Cold, and detract from Good. I want to use it in a campaign I'm running featuring evil ice fey, perhaps as a pet.

MurphysLaw159
2011-07-24, 03:38 PM
I want to up vote the Chaotic, Cold, and None (so there aren't too many subtypes) and cast my one down vote for Air. A tundra plant creature of madness would be awesome, but I'm just not feeling the "Air" subtype on a plant.

Zeta Kai
2011-07-24, 04:14 PM
Plus Vote: None & Fire.

Minus Vote: Incorporeal.

Domriso
2011-07-24, 04:40 PM
I'm gonna throw Cold, Air, and Aquatic up there. And I'll use my dectractor to vote down Fire.

thetobias
2011-07-24, 04:54 PM
Hmmm no giant fey dragon? Sadface.

Very well:

Upvote:
Incorporeal
Shapechanger
Chaotic

Downvote
None

Togath
2011-07-24, 05:35 PM
I vote for none(no subtype), detract from fire

Arcran
2011-07-24, 06:26 PM
I vote Fire, Cold, and Shapechanger.

Arcran
2011-07-24, 06:28 PM
I vote Fire, Cold, and Shapechanger.

Strormer
2011-07-24, 08:17 PM
I vote shapechanger & swarm and I detract from air.

I'm picturing a massive conglomerate of diminutive plants which mesh together to form various forms.:belkar: The possibilities for villaininess are just too awesome.

paddyfool
2011-07-25, 02:52 AM
That's pretty much what I was thinking of too. :smallbiggrin:

To make it happen, however, we'd need to outvote three out of the other four popular subtypes (air, cold, incorporeal, and chaotic). I'm not sure there's enough time left for that...

Veklim
2011-07-25, 09:52 AM
Incorporeal, Cold & Swarm

Detractor - Air (I hate air plants, they always die on me)

DracoDei
2011-07-25, 02:46 PM
Fire, Swarm, Extraplanar
Minus:Shapechanger

dethkruzer
2011-07-25, 03:31 PM
I vote Fire and Swarm, and give a minus voye to Aquatic.

Lappy9000
2011-07-25, 03:35 PM
I vote for Air, Cold, and Shapechanger

137beth
2011-07-25, 04:03 PM
That's pretty much what I was thinking of too. :smallbiggrin:

To make it happen, however, we'd need to outvote three out of the other four popular subtypes (air, cold, incorporeal, and chaotic). I'm not sure there's enough time left for that...

Remember that the top 5 subtypes move to the next round, so I think it is possible for your subtypes to make it. After that, there will be plenty of time for them to beat cold/incorporeal.

Strormer
2011-07-25, 04:16 PM
I'd honestly even be ok if they went so far as to have cold or something as a third subtype. I just shied away from air because it started seeming like insects instead of plants at that point. Tiny, crawling clovers that shapechange and have a cold breath weapon would be kinda epic.

Bob
2011-07-26, 05:22 AM
polls still open?

up to incorporeal
down to air

if i had another detraction i'd take a point of cold, just doesn't seem right to have a [cold] plant.

137beth
2011-07-26, 06:27 AM
Voting is now closed!
There was a tie for fifth place between chaotic and air, so I cast a tie-breaking vote. Chaotic moves on to the next round, air doesn't.

I will update shortly with the next round.

Voting is open: rank all 5 choices from favorite to least-favorite.

Bob
2011-07-26, 04:37 PM
Incorporeal
Swarm
Chaotic
Shapechanger
Cold

SamBurke
2011-07-26, 04:42 PM
Aquatic. KELP!

Owrtho
2011-07-26, 05:14 PM
In order from favourite to least favourite:
Swarm
Incorporeal
Shapechanger
Cold
Chaotic

Owrtho

Timeless Error
2011-07-26, 06:01 PM
From favorite to least favorite:

Shapechanger
Cold
Swarm
Incorporeal
Chaotic

Togath
2011-07-26, 10:04 PM
from favorite to least favorite;
#1: Cold
#2: Swarm
#3: Chaotic
#4: Shapechanger
#5: Incorporeal

Domriso
2011-07-26, 11:18 PM
From favorite to least favorite:
1) Cold
2) Swarm
3) Incorporeal
4) Shapechanger
5) Chaotic

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-07-27, 12:32 AM
Cold
Chaotic
Shapechanger
Swarm
Incorporeal

dethkruzer
2011-07-27, 02:09 AM
1. Swarm
2. Chaotic
3. Shapechanger
4. Cold
5. Incorporeal

zagan
2011-07-27, 03:46 AM
From favorite to least favorite:

Shapechanger
Swarm
Incorporeal
Chaotic
Cold

MurphysLaw159
2011-07-27, 05:20 PM
Cold
Chaotic
Shapechanger
Swarm
Incorporeal


From favorite to least :smallbiggrin:

Temotei
2011-07-27, 06:13 PM
Chaotic
Shapechanger
Cold
Swarm
Incorporeal

Strormer
2011-07-28, 01:57 AM
BEST: Shapechanger
2nd: Swarm
3rd: Cold
4th: Incorporeal
5th: Chaotic

Incidentally. If incorporeal and cold win, this could be a really terrifying beast to fight.

thetobias
2011-07-28, 08:08 AM
Incorporeal
Shapechanger
Chaotic
Swarm
Cold

Veklim
2011-07-28, 10:31 AM
Incorporeal
Cold
Swarm
Shapechanger
Chaotic

137beth
2011-07-28, 04:38 PM
Aquatic. KELP!

....Sorry, Aquatic has already been voted off.

SowZ
2011-07-28, 06:52 PM
1. Shapechanger
2. Swarm (The idea is that it can either be a bunch of small things, like vines or spores hence the Swarm, or mesh into one large thing that looks like a mold that takes any shape it chooses)
3. Chaotic
4. Incorporeal
5. Cold

Zale
2011-07-29, 12:32 PM
Shapechanger
Chaotic
Incorporeal
Swarm
Cold.

Shapeshifting Chaotic Incorporeal Plant. :smallcool:

Dragon Star
2011-07-29, 06:08 PM
Shapechanger
Swarm
Cold
Chaotic
Incorporeal

137beth
2011-07-30, 09:59 AM
Voting closed, wait while I calculate the results.

Also
Shapechanger
Chaotic
Incorporeal
Swarm
Cold.

Shapeshifting Chaotic Incorporeal Plant. :smallcool:
wow, that is the exact opposite of my choices:smallbiggrin:

And the winners are Swarm, Shapeschanger, and Cold!

Voting is now reopened.

zagan
2011-07-30, 11:22 AM
Shapechanger and Swarm were my favorite so I'm happy with the result so far.

For size I'll go with


Tiny
Diminutive
Fine


In that order, I don't want it to be too small otherwise nobody will recognize it as a plant.

edit: i post too fast and got confused betwen tiny and diminutive, this is the correct vote.

Zeta Kai
2011-07-30, 11:32 AM
Fine
Diminutive
Tiny

Domriso
2011-07-30, 11:34 AM
I'll throw my vote down for:

Tiny
Diminutive
Fine

Timeless Error
2011-07-30, 12:51 PM
From favorite to least favorite: Tiny, Fine, Diminutive.

thetobias
2011-07-30, 01:31 PM
Fine
Diminutive
Tiny

Strormer
2011-07-30, 01:51 PM
Best: Fine (for a swarm)
2nd: Diminutive
3rd: Tiny

Dragon Star
2011-07-30, 02:25 PM
Fine
Diminutive
Tiny

Togath
2011-07-30, 02:52 PM
1: Tiny
2:Diminutive
3:Fine

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-07-30, 03:31 PM
Tiny
Diminutive
Fine

Veklim
2011-07-30, 05:26 PM
I'm with Strormer on this one, it's a swarm so it should definitely be as small as possible.

Fine
Diminutive
Tiny


I don't want it to be too small otherwise nobody will recognize it as a plant. And what, pray tell, is algae, moss, etc if not fine plant life? Easily recognisable, it's a swarm/colony after all.

137beth
2011-07-30, 05:34 PM
I'm with Strormer on this one, it's a swarm so it should definitely be as small as possible.

Fine
Diminutive
Tiny

And what, pray tell, is algae, moss, etc if not fine plant life? Easily recognisable, it's a swarm/colony after all.

I'm with ya on this one, if I were voting for size (which I'm not, except to break ties), I would have voted for a fine swarm, since it is the same overall size (takes up the space of a large creature) but can fit through smaller holes, and is generally more awesome.
I also appear to have predicted correctly: almost all of the voters would want it as small as possible (and vote fine/dim/tiny) or as big as possible (tiny/dim/fine). So far this prediction holds up quite well.

wiimanclassic
2011-07-30, 09:48 PM
Dim, tiny, fine. Can't have it be TOO small. But not too big.

zagan
2011-07-31, 04:57 AM
And what, pray tell, is algae, moss, etc if not fine plant life? Easily recognisable, it's a swarm/colony after all.

What I mean is that each independant part should be easily recognizable as an independant plant. In my mind fine size was the equivalent of a perle. Upon further checking it can go up to 6 inches, much bigger than that.
Still I stand by my vote, lot of big component part.

Debihuman
2011-07-31, 10:23 AM
1. Fine
2. Diminutive
3. Tiny

Debby

Darthteej
2011-08-01, 01:27 AM
1.Tiny

2. Diminutive

3.Fine

This is awesome.

Arcran
2011-08-01, 01:45 AM
1. Fine
2. Diminutive
3. Tiny

dethkruzer
2011-08-01, 04:51 AM
1.Diminutive
2.Tiny
3.Fine

Temotei
2011-08-01, 05:41 AM
Tiny
Diminutive
Fine

Qwertystop
2011-08-02, 10:22 AM
I can never remember what order the sizes are in below Small. My vote goes to (middle, smallest, largest).

EDIT: Just found out which is which. Diminutive, Fine, Tiny

137beth
2011-08-02, 03:29 PM
And voting is now closed! I will update with the next phase shortly...

Voting reopened. Also, I am going to add what we have to the monster's stat block...

Togath
2011-08-02, 04:42 PM
CR 9 gets my vote

zagan
2011-08-02, 04:53 PM
Let's go with CR 11 not too high and not too low. (plus I could per haps use it in my campaign)

Howler Dagger
2011-08-02, 04:57 PM
I'll go with CR 7

Domriso
2011-08-02, 05:36 PM
I tend to like mid-level, so I'll go with CR 9.

Qwertystop
2011-08-02, 05:38 PM
I'd have to say 8.5, right on par with several campaigns I have played in, it seems to be a good zone for starting a game, and this is looking like a memorable first encounter. Nobody ever gets attacked by the mold in the corner of the tavern!

Pokonic
2011-08-02, 05:51 PM
CR 15, mostly because this monster may be most useable at around that Cr.

Timeless Error
2011-08-02, 06:16 PM
CR 9, because I like mid-level play and this seems to be the option that is gathering the most support thus far.

Dragon Star
2011-08-02, 09:26 PM
CR 10 seems best to me.

silphael
2011-08-02, 09:46 PM
I will say CR 17.

Veklim
2011-08-03, 02:03 AM
CR 11
I agree with the mid-level thoughts, but want a bit of room for interesting capabilities.

dethkruzer
2011-08-03, 02:34 AM
I'll go with... 14

Strormer
2011-08-03, 10:16 AM
CR 13
My lucky number

thetobias
2011-08-03, 10:38 AM
CR: i

That's not allowed :smallsigh:? Very well then. I'm going for CR 15. Decent for mid to high level.

thetobias
2011-08-03, 10:39 AM
CR: i

That's not allowed :smallsigh:? Very well then. I'm going for CR 15. Decent for mid to high level.

Magicyop
2011-08-03, 11:22 AM
I'll vote for CR 17. Not like Tarrasque level of KILL THE UNIVERSE but reasonably powerful enough that one poses a serious threat and a bunch of them is dangerous to anyone.

Or maybe I should look at how low other people are voting, and vote for 20, since that will force the average more towards 17? Hmm... For now I'll just vote 17. :smalltongue:

137beth
2011-08-03, 04:01 PM
CR: i

That's not allowed :smallsigh:? Very well then. I'm going for CR 15. Decent for mid to high level.

I specified that the target CR must be in the closed interval [1,20], to which complex/imaginary numbers do not belong:smallsmile:

Darthteej
2011-08-03, 04:33 PM
I agree with CR 8, since that tends to make a tough monster with interesting capabilities, but not so many HD as to rule out class levels.

BillyBobJoe
2011-08-03, 04:44 PM
CR 10 seems a good fit.

SowZ
2011-08-04, 10:26 AM
Cr 14.....

Zeta Kai
2011-08-04, 11:04 AM
CR12......

thetobias
2011-08-05, 08:02 AM
I specified that the target CR must be in the closed interval [1,20], to which complex/imaginary numbers do not belong:smallsmile:

:smallfrown:

137beth
2011-08-05, 06:47 PM
Voting is closed! The target CR is 12 (11.6389).

Strormer
2011-08-06, 12:16 AM
I would love to see Burrow and Fly together on a monster. Picture a swarm of plants bursting out of the ground unexpectedly and then buzzing about its victim(s) while they try in vain to swat at it.

Togath
2011-08-06, 12:38 AM
Burrow & Fly get my vote as well.
edit: just relised it didn't get normal movement, I'm voting for standard movement as well

Domriso
2011-08-06, 12:39 AM
I second the idea of a creature that can Burrow, but I also add that I don't think it should have normal movement. The idea that the swarm burrows into the ground and then bursts out, only to disappear into the ground once again tickles my fancy.

zagan
2011-08-06, 02:31 AM
I'll jump on the bandwagon and vote for burrow and fly.

Dragon Star
2011-08-06, 02:39 AM
I say fly and standard. It's a shapeshifter. It should be able to move normally when disguised.

thetobias
2011-08-06, 04:43 AM
Burrow and fly

dethkruzer
2011-08-06, 04:46 AM
I'd say say burrow and fly, but NOT being able to swim.

Veklim
2011-08-06, 08:02 AM
I like burrow but not sure whether it should be fly or climb...

OK, peer pressure wins out! Burrow & Fly

Howler Dagger
2011-08-06, 11:02 AM
ill go with FLY and SWIM and NOT having NORMAL Movement

137beth
2011-08-06, 11:52 AM
Voting is closed! No normal movement, just burrow and fly.

zagan
2011-08-06, 12:28 PM
Inteligent so it can use tactic and it can use is shapeshifting to take other form on purpose.

15 HD So it get 6 feats and enough hit point to last a little.

Zale
2011-08-06, 12:37 PM
Intelligent Because an intelligent, shapeshifting, flying plant swarm is just to cool to pass up.

16 HD

thetobias
2011-08-06, 12:59 PM
Agreeing with above posters. Intelligent it is.


Edit: Actually, changing vote to 11 HD

Dragon Star
2011-08-06, 01:07 PM
Intelligent.

17 HD.

Edit: Is it too late to change my vote? If not, 13 HD.

dethkruzer
2011-08-06, 01:28 PM
I'll say 27 HD, and intelligent

Qwertystop
2011-08-06, 01:37 PM
Intelligent.

12 HD, so we can pack in as many abilities as possible.

Togath
2011-08-06, 01:41 PM
I vote for 14HD and Intelligent
... is there an option to vote for smarter then a chicken and dumber then a commoner?

137beth
2011-08-06, 01:58 PM
Agreeing with above posters. Intelligent it is.


Edit: Actually, changing vote to 11 HD

I'm counting this as a vote for intelligent and 12 HD, since you can't vote for fewer than 12HD.


.. is there an option to vote for smarter then a chicken and dumber then a commoner?
We are voting on whether or not it has an intelligence score at all. Later we will vote on what that score actually is (if it is in the 3-9 range, then it is smarter than a chicken but not as smart as the average human commoner.)

Howler Dagger
2011-08-06, 02:30 PM
12 Hd and Intelligent

Magicyop
2011-08-06, 03:42 PM
I vote for 18 HD and Intelligent

Strormer
2011-08-06, 04:57 PM
I'll vote 13HD just because I voted 13CR and why not.
I'll also vote intelligent though I'd like to too out the hivemind concept of intelligent too.

Domriso
2011-08-06, 09:41 PM
Hm... let's go with Intelligent and 20 HD, mostly 'cause I haven't seen a flat twenty yet.

ScIaDrd
2011-08-07, 02:21 PM
15 HD and Intelligent if I have to say.
I´m curious on how will this turn out.

The Underlord
2011-08-07, 03:04 PM
Intelligent and 20 HD

zolga
2011-08-07, 04:24 PM
Intelligent and 12 HD
also somekind of hivemind could be cool

Arcran
2011-08-07, 04:43 PM
Intelligent
26 HD

137beth
2011-08-08, 10:39 AM
Voting is closed! The final result is 17 HD and intelligent (every single vote was for intelligent:smallsmile:).

zagan
2011-08-08, 11:54 AM
Okay, hum let's see;

Str: 1 (it's a swarm, it's doesnt need strenght)
Dex: 16 (enough to get a small bonus to AC and init)
Con: 23 (swarm are very vulnerable to area effect and with a weaknes to fire, it need the hit point)
Int: 13 (smarter than a commoner, but not much more)
Wis: 6 (a penalty to perception skills and to will save made for a nice weak spot)
Cha: 18 (very high, it should be beautiful, like a swarm of rose and able to ensnare the player with it's everchanging beauty)

Temotei
2011-08-08, 02:10 PM
Str: 1
Dex: 15
Con: 22
Int: 11
Wis: 8
Cha: 22

Qwertystop
2011-08-08, 02:37 PM
Str: 1
Dex: 15
Con: 22
Int: 11
Wis: 8
Cha: 22

That's my vote too.

Togath
2011-08-08, 02:59 PM
my vote is;
Str: 3
Dex: 16
Con: 23
Int:8
Wis:14
Cha: 5

Phosphate
2011-08-08, 03:33 PM
Str: 1
Dex: 16
Con: 22
Int: 22
Wis: 10
Cha: 1

I imagine this as an eeeevil cloud of spores, so there, full int, no cha.

erictheredd
2011-08-08, 04:23 PM
str:11
dex:12
con:14
int:16
wis:12
cha:16

with what it can do, this thing should have magic coming out its ears... or what passes for ears.

and seeing as its a shapechanging swarm of plants... it needs the strength and the smarts, but not the dexterity or constitution

Togath
2011-08-08, 04:57 PM
I would like to point one thing out about this creatueres STR score; the winner for it's size catagory was tiny, so it's a swarm of about cat sized plant thingys(so having some str makes sense)
edit; is it ok if I change my vote to STR 3, I just looked up the swarms in the MM and relised I had forgotten swarms don't use attack rolls

Veklim
2011-08-08, 05:12 PM
Str - 4
Dex - 14
Con - 20
Int - 16
Wis - 14
Cha - 8

Howler Dagger
2011-08-08, 06:37 PM
Str: 1
Dex: 15
Con: 23
Int: 22
Wis: 11
Cha: 8

Zale
2011-08-08, 10:03 PM
Str: 2
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 20
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

dethkruzer
2011-08-09, 01:53 PM
Str: 1
Dex: 21
Con: 16
Int:6
Wis:2
Cha:21

Dragon Star
2011-08-09, 09:20 PM
Str:2
Dex:20
Con:14
Int:22
Wis:10
Cha:22

Arcran
2011-08-09, 11:39 PM
8 Str
20 Dex
15 Con
11 Int
14 Wis
6 Cha

Strormer
2011-08-10, 02:25 PM
Str: 3
Dex: 23
Con: 13
Int:20
Wis:6
Cha:17

Swift, clever, and beautiful, the deadly plant swarm torments its prey before killing.

Timeless Error
2011-08-10, 02:45 PM
Strength 2
Dexterity 10
Constitution 15
Intelligence 22
Wisdom 5
Charisma 22

137beth
2011-08-12, 09:36 AM
And voting is now closed! Remember the exact ability scores are not yet decided, because we still need to vote on which ones are even and which are odd.

Str: 2.92857
Dex:16.3571
Con: 18.2857
Int: 15.7143
Wis: 9.71429
Cha :14.2857

zagan
2011-08-12, 10:30 AM
For even score I vote: Str, Dex and Int.

Timeless Error
2011-08-12, 10:31 AM
Even: Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom.

Qwertystop
2011-08-12, 10:34 AM
Even: Int, Str, Wis.

Howler Dagger
2011-08-12, 12:46 PM
Even: Dex. Wis. and Cha.

dethkruzer
2011-08-12, 02:13 PM
Even: Int, Wis, Cha

Togath
2011-08-12, 03:19 PM
even; Str, Dex, Wis

Zale
2011-08-12, 06:15 PM
Int, Wis, Con

Veklim
2011-08-13, 02:01 AM
Even:
Dex, Con, Int

Temotei
2011-08-13, 02:34 AM
Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence.

137beth
2011-08-13, 10:00 AM
And voting is closed! The even abilities are dex, int, and wis!

dethkruzer
2011-08-13, 11:23 AM
burrow speed 20 ft.
fly speed 50 ft.

maneuverability options from favorite to least favorite
Good, Perfect, Average, Poor, Clumsy

Zale
2011-08-13, 11:33 AM
Burrow speed 30 ft.
Fly speed 60 ft.


Good, Perfect, Poor, Average, Clumsy

Maraxus1
2011-08-13, 11:35 AM
dethkruzer, I hold your speeds:

burrow 20 ft
fly 50 ft

But oppose your maneuverability. Make it use the heavily complicated flight-sim rules. :)

Poor, Clumsy, Average, Good, Perfect

(okay, clumsy does not need to be first, but besides this, the poorer, the better.)

Qwertystop
2011-08-13, 11:43 AM
Burrow 40
Fly 30

Clumsy, Poor, Average, Good, Perfect

I wish I could have faster burrow or slower flight, because I envision it leaping from the ground to attack then zooming back in, like a flying fish except as a swarm of moss instead of a fish.

zagan
2011-08-13, 11:47 AM
I'll go with:

Burrow 20 ft, no need to be real fast underground.
Fly 50 ft It's a plant not need to be too high either.

Average, Good, Clumsy, Perfect, Poor.

Howler Dagger
2011-08-13, 11:48 AM
Perfect, Clumsy, Poor, Good, Average.

Fly speed 40 ft
Burrow Speed 40ft.

Strormer
2011-08-13, 02:39 PM
Burrow: 20ft.
Fly: 50ft. with Perfect Manuverability, average, good, clumsy, poor

It seems like it would take time for a swarm to travel through something, but once it was up in the air it would be zipping around like mosquitos.

Togath
2011-08-13, 02:59 PM
Burrow 40ft.
Fly 60ft.

Good, Average, Poor, Clumsy, Perfect

Veklim
2011-08-13, 04:13 PM
Burrow 40ft
Fly 40ft

Average, Poor, Good, Clumsy, Perfect

Any swarm which burrows should be able to move pretty much as fast as if it were unimpeded, just look at ants for an example. Flight shouldn't really get away from the mid-range ability too, there are multitudes of these things in a huge mass, they're not going to maneuver very well, but they shouldn't be too clumsy either.

Dragon Star
2011-08-13, 05:14 PM
Burrow 30ft
Fly 80ft
Perfect, Good, Average, Clumsy, Poor.

TravelLog
2011-08-13, 06:30 PM
Burrow Speed: 40 Ft.
Fly Speed: 60 feet
Maneuverability: Good, Average, Perfect, Poor, Clumsy

dethkruzer
2011-08-14, 04:24 AM
I wish I could have faster burrow or slower flight, because I envision it leaping from the ground to attack then zooming back in, like a flying fish except as a swarm of moss instead of a fish.

Flee for your lives! It is the swarm of terrible flying moss fish!

137beth
2011-08-16, 09:41 AM
Voting is now closed! Wait while I determine the results...

Maraxus1
2011-08-16, 09:53 AM
Already did. (burrow 30, fly 50 and you will have the deciding vote between average and good maneuverability.) :smallbiggrin:

137beth
2011-08-16, 10:19 AM
Already did. (burrow 30, fly 50 and you will have the deciding vote between average and good maneuverability.) :smallbiggrin:

You got the speed right, but you weren't even close on the maneuverability...

zagan
2011-08-16, 10:25 AM
In order, usually, always, often and any.

Howler Dagger
2011-08-16, 11:12 AM
In order: usually, often, any, always

dethkruzer
2011-08-16, 12:03 PM
In order: Usually, Any, Often, Always

The Underlord
2011-08-16, 12:32 PM
from favorite to least favorite always, usually, often, any

Maraxus1
2011-08-16, 01:20 PM
Always, Usually, Often, Any


Oh, sorry.
1. With the voting lists, I though you were using an instant runoff voting.
2. In the last voting step I missed to transfer one vote from perfect to good.

I wonder, if I can create a case where your system has a different winner then IRV

TravelLog
2011-08-16, 01:24 PM
Always, usually, often, any

137beth
2011-08-16, 01:26 PM
I wonder, if I can create a case where your system has a different winner then IRV

I'm sure you could, that's why I'm not using instant run-off:smallamused:

Togath
2011-08-16, 02:23 PM
from favorite to least favorite;
Often, Any, Usually, Always

Veklim
2011-08-16, 03:08 PM
Usually, Often, Always, Any

I think it would be interesting to have a different alignment depending on environment so not a big fan of 'Always', but 'Any' is just asking for silliness IMO

Arcran
2011-08-16, 07:19 PM
Allways. (need 10 characters)

Darthteej
2011-08-16, 09:36 PM
Any, usually, often, always

Strormer
2011-08-16, 09:42 PM
I'll vote:
Often, Any, Usually, Always

Dragon Star
2011-08-17, 12:28 AM
Any, Usually, Often, Always.

Qwertystop
2011-08-17, 09:40 AM
Often, Usually, Always, Any.

3WhiteFox3
2011-08-17, 08:49 PM
Any, Often ,Always, Usually

deuxhero
2011-08-17, 11:11 PM
Any, Often, Usually ,Always,

Can the actual alignment be color wheel based?

137beth
2011-08-18, 08:30 AM
And voting is now closed!


Any, Often, Usually ,Always,

Can the actual alignment be color wheel based?

???How would that work? What does "red-aligned" mean?


Allways. (need 10 characters)

I'll put your other votes in a random order...

zagan
2011-08-18, 10:00 AM
Okay lets see. I'll go with:

TN, LG, CE

CN, NG, LE

LN, NE, CG

I prefer plant with a least a neutral component in their alignment, and this way it can be used against both good and evil players.

RedWarrior0
2011-08-18, 10:57 AM
LG, TN, CE

LE, CN, NG

LN, NE, CG

Lawful first in all of those because how many plants are really "Lawful"? A Lawful plant would be fun to see.

On the first, I feel like CE is just too overdone.

On the second, it was sort of a tie, but it's nice to have a CN plant.

On the last, too many nature-y creatures are CG. Elves and Fey out the wazoo, for example. I want something very atypical.

dethkruzer
2011-08-18, 12:36 PM
CE, LG, TN

LE, CN, NG

NE, CG, LN

TravelLog
2011-08-18, 01:13 PM
TN, CE, LG

CN, NG, LE

NE, CG, LN

Lawful last in all cases since I don't think of plants, especially of the swarm variety (swarm screams chaotic to my mind) as being lawful. I do think though that there is large amount of neutrality at play as well though, which I think is fitting.

Overall, I think CN is the best fit. I dislike the idea of this plant being good but prefer a good alignment to a lawful one. CE is too common in my mind, so while it trumps lawful good (the worst alignment for this creature IMO), that isn't saying much.

Qwertystop
2011-08-18, 01:32 PM
Lawful Good
Lawful Neutral
Lawful Evil.

I just want lawful. Not only is it a swarm of moss that jumps in and out of the ground, it does so in a perfect cube!

Maraxus1
2011-08-18, 04:23 PM
TN, CE, LG

CN, NG, LE

CG, NE, LN


Leaning towards chaos and non-evilness.

Veklim
2011-08-18, 04:41 PM
TN, CE, LG

CN, LE, NG

NE, LN, CG

Should really be neutral imo, it's a plant after all, despite being an intelligent one. Chaotic makes sense to a point, especially considering it's a swarm

I don't much like the idea of a plant swarm being lawful (except LE would be truly funny, and possibly quite scary), but it's certainly better than being good, which in my mind would be next to impossible for a plant since it's a very subjective idea which has little to no relevance to plantlife. Plenty of parasitic plants, plenty of opportunist ones too, and ones which choke out competition, so evil is still a good fit.

deuxhero
2011-08-18, 04:41 PM
Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil

TN, CE, LG

Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil

CN, LE, NG

Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil

LN, NE, CG


Match 4: White vs. Green vs. Blue vs. Black vs. Red.

Green, White, Red, Black, Blue

The Underlord
2011-08-18, 04:49 PM
Match 1:
LG, CE, TN

Match 2:
LE, NG, CN

Match 3:
NE, LN, CG

Dragon Star
2011-08-18, 08:43 PM
Tn, Ce, Lg

Cn, Ng, Le

Ne, Ln, Cg

Howler Dagger
2011-08-18, 09:55 PM
Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil

Chaotic Evil, True Neutral, Lawfull Good

Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil

Lawful Evil, Neutral Good, Chaotic Neutral

Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil

Chaotic Good, Neutral Evil, Lawful Neutral.

RedWarrior0
2011-08-18, 11:38 PM
@people who think "swarm = chaotic"

I direct you to a personal favorite of mine, "Leiningen versus the Ants". The aforementioned ants are decidedly a swarm (and a vicious one at that), and decidedly not chaotic - heck, they're even described as a highly structured military force.

@People who think "plant = neutral"

Any semblance of realism was thrown out the window when we decided to make a flying, burrowing, shapechanging swarm of plants.

erictheredd
2011-08-18, 11:51 PM
Lg,Tn, Ce,

Le,Ng, Cn

Cg, Ne, Ln

Togath
2011-08-19, 12:29 AM
Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil
TN, CE, LG
Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil
CN, LE, NG
Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil
NE, LN, CG

Strormer
2011-08-19, 03:44 AM
Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil
TN, LG, CE
Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil
LE, CN, NG
Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil
CG, NE, LN

Match 1: Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil are too absolute for anything really fun to come out, in my opinion, so TN wins with LG slightly beating CE just because I'm sick of CE baddies

Match 2: Lawful Evil would be a blast to watch what with the intelligent swarm thing going on. Chaotic Neutral is always a blast so cool, and neutral good seems boring for a monster.

Match 3: Chaotic Good could make for interesting party interactions. Neutral evil makes for a good baddie while lawful neutral is just dull unless you're a cleric of St. Cuthbert with spontaneous cures and destruction domain. (Read as, Dr. Pain)

legomaster00156
2011-08-20, 12:06 AM
Match 1: Lawful Good vs. True Neutral vs. Chaotic Evil
TN, CE, LG
Match 2: Neutral Good vs. Chaotic Neutral vs. Lawful Evil
LE, CN, NG
Match 3: Chaotic Good vs. Lawful Neutral vs. Neutral Evil
CG, NE, LN

137beth
2011-08-20, 09:12 AM
And that's the end of the round! Next vote is up, then we will finally be done with alignment:smallsmile:

zagan
2011-08-20, 09:16 AM
In order:

TN, CN, NE

Arcran
2011-08-20, 09:32 AM
TN,CN,NE in that order.

The Underlord
2011-08-20, 09:37 AM
NE, CN, TN in that order.

RedWarrior0
2011-08-20, 10:55 AM
Alas, no lawful. Oh well.

CN, NE, TN. In order, of course.

What scoring will be used? 5-3-1, 3-2-1, or what?

dethkruzer
2011-08-20, 11:14 AM
Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, True Neutral

137beth
2011-08-20, 01:30 PM
Alas, no lawful. Oh well.

CN, NE, TN. In order, of course.

What scoring will be used? 5-3-1, 3-2-1, or what?

Elimination: The alignment with the fewest first places loses, and anyone who ranked it as their first choice has their vote reassigned to their second choice.

Howler Dagger
2011-08-20, 01:41 PM
Chaotic Neutral, True Neutral, Neutral Evil

Togath
2011-08-20, 04:27 PM
Neutral Evil, Chaotic Neutral, True Neutral

Maraxus1
2011-08-20, 05:36 PM
CN, TN, NE


(Hey, there an auto-correction, that turns CN, TN, NE into Cn, Tn, Ne, unless I write something else, too. Nice anti Caps-lock-fury measure. :smallamused: )

Dragon Star
2011-08-20, 05:59 PM
Tn, Cn, Ne

erictheredd
2011-08-20, 06:26 PM
Tn, Cn, Ne

come one, if we choose neutral evil the thing won't get any attention to personality or motivations.

Strormer
2011-08-21, 01:59 AM
In order CN, NE, TN
Plz no TN!
TN boring!:thog:

TravelLog
2011-08-21, 02:03 AM
In order:

CN, NE, TN

Veklim
2011-08-21, 07:36 AM
CN, NE, TN

Shocked with that result in fairness, but not disappointed :smallbiggrin:

Hussam B.
2011-08-21, 07:52 AM
Tn, Cn, Ne

Malimar
2011-08-21, 07:24 PM
Neutral Evil > Chaotic Neutral > True Neutral

137beth
2011-08-22, 07:27 AM
And voting is now closed!
The winner is: Chaotic neutral! (Tn came in second).

Maraxus1
2011-08-22, 09:16 AM
The bad thing with choosing natural armor from 0 to 10 is, that if one voter wants 0 and another one wants 5, the one with 5 says: 10, and gets exactly what he wants while the one who wants 0 does not get this at all. Hm, let's hope, nobody makes such tactical voting. I for myself vote:

Natural Armor 0

No Hivemind: full intelligence until the last pedal drops.

zagan
2011-08-22, 09:41 AM
NA: 0

No Hivemind.

dethkruzer
2011-08-22, 10:30 AM
I'll say NA +3 and No Hivemind

And just an idea: If it was a deflection bonus, it could have a deflection bonus of Charisma modifier +1 or something

TravelLog
2011-08-22, 11:43 AM
My vote is for NA +4 and No Hivemind

Qwertystop
2011-08-22, 12:32 PM
NA +10
Hivemind.

137beth
2011-08-22, 12:33 PM
The bad thing with choosing natural armor from 0 to 10 is, that if one voter wants 0 and another one wants 5, the one with 5 says: 10, and gets exactly what he wants while the one who wants 0 does not get this at all. Hm, let's hope, nobody makes such tactical voting. I for myself vote:

Natural Armor 0

No Hivemind: full intelligence until the last pedal drops.

Heh heh, this time, I'm not averaging them together, because that favors the center. I'm applying a error correcting function which shifts the vote away from the center, to make things a tad more fair.

Veklim
2011-08-22, 03:29 PM
NA +4 (any more gets silly for a swarm imo)
Hivemind (because it's a highly intelligent swarm)

TravelLog
2011-08-22, 04:40 PM
Could we add the option of hivemind, but when it reaches the hive mind threshold, it's shapechange ability goes into overdrive, transforming it into a Limit Mode-esque form? That would be interesting because it would require one set of tactics before transforming, then a completely new set afterward.

erictheredd
2011-08-22, 04:51 PM
NA: +2 (kind of woody, it is a shapechanger)
vote YES! for the hivemind

Togath
2011-08-22, 05:42 PM
I'm voting +4 NA,
and; hive mind: no

137beth
2011-08-22, 05:49 PM
Could we add the option of hivemind, but when it reaches the hive mind threshold, it's shapechange ability goes into overdrive, transforming it into a Limit Mode-esque form? That would be interesting because it would require one set of tactics before transforming, then a completely new set afterward.

What happens when it shapeshifts is a later phase...in fact, it is after the next phase:smallsmile:

Strormer
2011-08-22, 06:04 PM
Well, I'll go +2 so that it's not overmuch, but present.
I'll also go hivemind because I did way back in the Int vote.

Howler Dagger
2011-08-22, 07:07 PM
+5 NA.
No Hivemind

RedWarrior0
2011-08-22, 10:06 PM
+3 NA

No to the hivemind.

Malimar
2011-08-22, 11:19 PM
Natural Armor +5

No hivemind

(I was leaning yes, but then I remembered I hate all the existing hive mind creatures and never use them. CR12ish already means this is likely to never get used in my games, but I want it to at least have a chance.)

Togath
2011-08-22, 11:43 PM
Why would CR 12 prevent it from being used?

The Underlord
2011-08-23, 10:21 PM
+10 NA and yes hivemind.

137beth
2011-08-24, 07:52 AM
Voting is now closed. The winner is:
Hivemind!

And Natural armor is +3!

zagan
2011-08-24, 10:53 AM
For skills I choose:

Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (nature), Disguise, Concentration, Survival

Howler Dagger
2011-08-24, 05:53 PM
Skills are Dimplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, Concentration, and Move Silently

TravelLog
2011-08-24, 06:16 PM
I'm going to go with:
Move Silently, Sense Motive, Knowledge (Nature), Spot, Concentration

If I can assign:
Move Silently 10
Sense motive 20
Knowledge (Nature) 15
Spot 15
Concentration 20
Knowledge (Arcana) 10
Survival 10
Search 10