200,000 GP to make my dream armor!

[Optimator]

I have a level 17 Sublime Chord (Bard 6 Lyric Thurmaturge 3 Virtuoso 1 Sublume Chord 2 Virtuoso X) who has a 200,000 coupon for any magic item and I was thinking about upgrading my armor. I also have 121K in my pocket but I can't get an epic item. I believe GP enhancements and materials pushing the price past 200k is fine, but it's out of pocket in that case (not a problem--GP is for spending after all!).

Right now I'm in +4 studded leather. Not bad, but bland. My Dex score is 14 but I almost always have Nixie's Grace up so it's usually 20. Having an ally cast Magic Vestment isn't something I can rely on but it is possible.

Pretty much all books open, and in some cases I can use the original version of an ability if the MIC nerfed it. Forgotten Realms stuff and Eberron stuff is okay.

My question to you then is what would you do? What's your dream caster armor?
================================================== =====

I was thinking +3 (for greater armor crystals) Mithral Chain Shirt as the base, perhaps with that one special type of chain that gives DR (forget the name).

Potential enhancements: Ghost Ward, Soulfire, Energy Immunity, Heavy Fortification, Gleaming,
Potential Crystals: Greater Lifekeeping, Greater Adaptation,
Potential GP Enhancements: Glamered AND Called,

I'm using this handy reference (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19859922/The_3.5_Armor_and_Shield_Special_Abilities_thread) for ideas.

[Slipperychicken]

Use a Starmantle Cloak (BoED 116) as a chassis, makes you immune to damage from nonmagical attacks, magical attacks have reflex/half, DC 15. Blow 25k on a Ring of Evasion (SRD). This means that when you make the save, you take no damage whatsoever from weapons, including natural attacks and unarmed strikes. You will make that save 95% of the time, more if you really try [Luck Blades with 0 wishes remaining (SRD, 22,060gp a pop), each one is a 1/day reroll of any roll to the possessor, not the wielder, so they can be chilling in your pack and still give their effect].

Any nonmagical weapon/NA/possibly unarmed strike hitting you is turned into harmless light, and you're immune to damage from pretty much all attacks. Your DM may regret this. May even include some spells, depending on how you read "missile".

[Hawk7915]

I'm surprised you don't want to go with a +3 Mithral Breastplate instead; +1 armor, and the max dex difference is negligible if you top our at a 20. Then again, if you don't have a reliable way to fly, Celestial Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#celestialArmor) might be an even better idea as a base start to an armor (assuming you can gently persuade your DM to let you further upgrade it).

For high level play like this, I'd say Deathward and at least Medium (probably Heavy) fortification is a must. From there you're up to a +9 suit of armor so you can't afford much else; I'd consider Nimbleness, Displacement, or maybe Quickness as my last bonus. Or just an extra point of armor.

Of course, you can still do a crystal. I think I prefer Crystal of Mindcloaking, Greater considering your other bonuses. If you have reasonable access to Mind Blank and/or amazing will saves though, you could go for Lifekeeping, Iron Ward, or Arrow Deflection instead. You can also pile on bonuses that don't require gold, like Glamered, Called, Aporter, skill boosts, save boosts, or energy resistances of some sort.

If my calculations are correct, my dream armor would be...

- Celestial Chain (SRD, 22,400 GP)
- Heavy Fortification, Death Ward, Displacement (91,000 GP)
- Crystal of Mindcloaking, Greater (10,000 GP)
- Called (2,000 GP)
- Glammered (2,700 GP)
- Greater Stamina (12,500 GP)
- Aporter (20,000 GP in MiC)
- Resistance to Fire and Electricity 10 (36,000 GP)

Handy mobility SLAs, immunity or resistance to a wide range of tactics and attacks, and some fun fluff abilities.

[Groverfield]

I have a level 17 Sublime Chord (Bard 6 Lyric Thurmaturge 3 Virtuoso 1 Sublume Chord 2 Virtuoso X) who has a 200,000 coupon for any magic item and I was thinking about upgrading my armor. I also have 121K in my pocket but I can't get an epic item. I believe GP enhancements and materials pushing the price past 200k is fine, but it's out of pocket in that case (not a problem--GP is for spending after all!).

Right now I'm in +4 studded leather. Not bad, but bland. My Dex score is 14 but I almost always have Nixie's Grace up so it's usually 20. Having an ally cast Magic Vestment isn't something I can rely on but it is possible.

Pretty much all books open, and in some cases I can use the original version of an ability if the MIC nerfed it. Forgotten Realms stuff and Eberron stuff is okay.

My question to you then is what would you do? What's your dream caster armor?
================================================== =====

I was thinking +3 (for greater armor crystals) Mithral Chain Shirt as the base, perhaps with that one special type of chain that gives DR (forget the name).

Potential enhancements: Deathward, Soulfire, Energy Immunity, Heavy Fortification, Gleaming,
Potential Crystals: Greater Lifekeeping, Greater Adaptation,
Potential GP Enhancements: Glamered AND Called,

I'm using this handy reference (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19859922/The_3.5_Armor_and_Shield_Special_Abilities_thread) for ideas.

Deathward is going to cost you 144K pricetag, (4(SpellLevel)*9(MinCL)*2(Dur1m/l)*2000) but is everythepenny worth it for immunity to negative energy, ability score drain, ability score damage, negative levels. Aside from that, I don't know of any special leathers, though there might be something about dragonhide studded leather for some purpose. Go for +5 and displacement for a total of [+6] to bring the total up to 180k. Choose one resistance type that you think you'll want most or improved slick, bringing the total to either 198K+base materials or 195K+base materials. If you get grappled a lot, the +10 to escape artist to escape the grapples is a nice boon.

[herrhauptmann]

Deathward is going to cost you 144K pricetag, (4(SpellLevel)*9(MinCL)*2(Dur1m/l)*2000) but is everythepenny worth it for immunity to negative energy, ability score drain, ability score damage, negative levels.

Instead of a custom item of death ward, get the Soulfire enchantment from BoED. Its description is IDENTICAL to the spell.
Blueshine or Durable armor (MiC and Dungeonscape respectively). Theres a CR 10 or so trap in dungeonscape that consists of oozes that destroy your gear. All of it. No save.
Having blueshine or durable means you don't lose your armor due to acid or rust.

If your armor is soulfire, you can then spend 38k to make your weapon a Lifedrinker (DMG specific weapon. Some DMs allow the specified weapons to be changed in a variety of ways). Since it's 40k for a +1 Lifedrinker, we know that the lifedrinker itself costs 38k.

Anti-impact: Complete warrior. Flat cost. Half damage from whole body crushing. Falling, getting eaten, falling rocks, etc. Worth it.

Magic Item Compendium says you can buy bracers of armor and enchant those with various effects like normal armor. PERHAPS you could do the following:
Buy your +3 armor with soulfire
And buy some +1 bracers with fortification. It's a lot cheaper than buying +3 armor of soulfire and fortification.
True, the armor bonuses themselves won't stack, you won't see the +1 from the bracers ever, but you might still get away with the benefit of both sets of secondary enchantments.
Mind you, this is really cheesy, and I only thought of it in sleep deprivation (I don't think I've seen someone else suggest this before). So it might get a book thrown at you when you ask for it

Hey, let us know what you finally decide on, ok?

edit:
Oh, and groverfield, your math is wrong. 4th level spells, that's a Caster Level of 7. So it should be 112k

[Hawk7915]

See, the raw cost of Soulfire or custom Deathward is why I suggested Death Ward, from MIC. Immunity to death, immediate action, 1/day. Only a +1 bonus. How often is your DM going to make you roll against death effects, even at level 17? Obviously Deathward and Soulfire protect from more than just a Finger of Death, but that's why you stick a Greater Crystal of Lifekeeping in your armor :smallcool:.

[RndmNumGen]

I'm surprised you don't want to go with a +3 Mithral Breastplate instead; +1 armor, and the max dex difference is negligible if you top our at a 20

Likely he doesn't have proficiency. I don't think any of the classes in his build are martial, and while Mithral reduces the size category for movement speed and such, but you still need Medium Armor Proficiency to use a Breastplate without penalty, even if it's a Mithral one.

[Hawk7915]

Likely he doesn't have proficiency. I don't think any of the classes in his build are martial, and while Mithral reduces the size category for movement speed and such, but you still need Medium Armor Proficiency to use a Breastplate without penalty, even if it's a Mithral one.

Wow, I did not know that :smallredface:. You learn something new every day. Does that kill Celestial Armor as well? It says "is considered light armor", although the stats are initially based off it being +3 Chainmail...

[RndmNumGen]

Wow, I did not know that :smallredface:. You learn something new every day. Does that kill Celestial Armor as well? It says "is considered light armor", although the stats are initially based off it being +3 Chainmail...

It depends on how you interpret 'considered'. If something is considered light armor, to me, that doesn't mean it is light armor, so in this case I would say you still need Medium Armor Proficiency. I'm going off of this line in the SRD:


Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

Taking limitations to mean stuff such as the ranger's combat style, not the requirements for actually using the armor.

[only1doug]

See, the raw cost of Soulfire or custom Deathward is why I suggested Death Ward, from MIC. Immunity to death, immediate action, 1/day. Only a +1 bonus. How often is your DM going to make you roll against death effects, even at level 17? Obviously Deathward and Soulfire protect from more than just a Finger of Death, but that's why you stick a Greater Crystal of Lifekeeping in your armor :smallcool:.

Not often, but when he does it may well be several times in a row...
(which is why i would never get the +1 version from MIC).

[Keld Denar]

See, the raw cost of Soulfire or custom Deathward is why I suggested Death Ward, from MIC. Immunity to death, immediate action, 1/day. Only a +1 bonus. How often is your DM going to make you roll against death effects, even at level 17? Obviously Deathward and Soulfire protect from more than just a Finger of Death, but that's why you stick a Greater Crystal of Lifekeeping in your armor :smallcool:.

At that level? Multiple monsters with Energy Drain wouldn't be unreasonable, and there is no intial save vs Energy Drain. Death Ward is great at low levels, but at mid-high levels, Soulfire is definitely worth it!

There's also Freedom armor. FoM is very vital at high levels. Its a +5 equivalent though, which is pretty expensive if you add it to existing armor. If you could pick up a pair of Bracers of Armor with Freedom (assuming a base armor of 1, just like magical armor), it would be 4000g cheaper than a Ring of FoM.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Likely he doesn't have proficiency. I don't think any of the classes in his build are martial, and while Mithral reduces the size category for movement speed and such, but you still need Medium Armor Proficiency to use a Breastplate without penalty, even if it's a Mithral one.


Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.

There's the relevant bit from the SRD, the extra-relevant bits (in my mind, at least) bolded. Unless you have another rule, I think it could go either way and falls into "ask your DM". I know I always rolled with only needing light armor proficiency for mithral medium armors, personally.

Edit: Okay, so I was ninja'd by you, yourself, here. That's what happens when I take half an hour to watch Pokemon videos and Good Eats, and go look up Band on the Run to listen to. :smallredface:

[Keld Denar]

WRT mithril, check out Races of the Wild, in the equipment section. They have mithril armor priced out on the table, and its listed in the armor catagory 1 catagory lighter, IIRC.

[Draz74]

Likely he doesn't have proficiency. I don't think any of the classes in his build are martial, and while Mithral reduces the size category for movement speed and such, but you still need Medium Armor Proficiency to use a Breastplate without penalty, even if it's a Mithral one.

This is ambiguous according to the actual RAW, and the FAQ says that you're wrong in its author's opinion.

"Ask your DM" is a safe strategy though.

[tyckspoon]

If you need/want another enhancement carrier, consider getting a shield. A Mithral Buckler/Light Shield has no ASF and no check penalty, and the buckler in particular doesn't interfere with doing anything else in any really meaningful way along with providing some incidental cheap extra AC. A +1 Heavy Fort buckler is a really cost-efficient way to get that protection.

Edit: As far as mithral armor goes, the MIC specifies that it works for proficiency as well in the little footnote reminder of 'this is what mithral does that's not on the ACF/ACP chart.'

[RndmNumGen]

This is ambiguous according to the actual RAW, and the FAQ says that you're wrong in its author's opinion.

"Ask your DM" is a safe strategy though.


I suppose it really is open to interpretation. Pathfinder explicitly states you need a higher armor proficiency to use it properly, and while Pathfinder itself doesn't directly extend into 3.5, there is enough support in the 3.5 RAW for me to extend that definition over.

As you said though, the RAW itself is ambiguous.

[herrhauptmann]

Likely he doesn't have proficiency. I don't think any of the classes in his build are martial, and while Mithral reduces the size category for movement speed and such, but you still need Medium Armor Proficiency to use a Breastplate without penalty, even if it's a Mithral one.
I am with you on that one, but that's not how the rules go.
Breastplate? Rogue can't wear it without penalty.
Mithral breastplate? Suddenly he knows how to wear it.

It doesn't make sense to me, and I've got a whole rant ready for it that no one will want to read.
So I'd suggest just making it a houserule at your table. Depending on who's playing the next time I DM, I will.

[Optimator]

THanks for the great advice, guys. I do, genuinely appreciate it.

Good point about the Death Ward / Soulfire and being high level. If i need a Death Ward effect, I'll probably need a lot of it. The armor doesn't need Freedom or the Mind Shielding crystal. I can cast Freedom of movement myself and I usually cast Empyreal Ecstasy on the party, which blocks mind-affecting things. Plus, my will save ain't bad and I cast Ruin Delver's Fortune with some frequency (go go gadget Ring of Wizardry IV).

Upgrading Celestial armor might be a good idea... yeah. MY DM would allow that, I do believe. ALso, we've always had mithral armor count as lower armor for proficiency in our group (thought that was the rules), so we're good to go there. I don't really need the Fly since one of my early spells known was Swift Fly and I have a Phoenix Cloak now. I guess Celectial Armor would still be faster though.

[Optimator]

If you need/want another enhancement carrier, consider getting a shield. A Mithral Buckler/Light Shield has no ASF and no check penalty, and the buckler in particular doesn't interfere with doing anything else in any really meaningful way along with providing some incidental cheap extra AC. A +1 Heavy Fort buckler is a really cost-efficient way to get that protection.

I thought of that like, 15 seconds after posting this thread, initially. Soulfire buckler, heavy fortification armor... Might do that. I could afford it, huh.

Narrows things down a bit, to be sure. Think I should just go for +5 and Heavy Fortification on the armor? AC isn't the biggest issue since the character is so wily, but a lot of armor special abilities I just plain don't need, being a Sorcerer-type.

[herrhauptmann]

Narrows things down a bit, to be sure. Think I should just go for +5 and Heavy Fortification on the armor? AC isn't the biggest issue since the character is so wily, but a lot of armor special abilities I just plain don't need, being a Sorcerer-type.
Not really. At best, go +3 Heavy Fort, allowing you to use the greater armor crystals. Even then, a +1 heavy fort, with the Cleric or wizard casting Greater Luminous armor would be a better investment if you want AC. Or, Cleric casts Magic Vestment, bringing your armor up to a +5.

But why do you feel the need for Heavy fort in the first place? As a caster, you shouldn't be the target of very many attacks and sneak attacks.
If anything, you should be more worried about boosting your Touch AC for when you get into some spellbattle, than boosting your regular AC.

[Optimator]

The party's cleric multiclassed into crusader so his Magic Vestment is +3 right now. :smallfrown:

I figured this carte blanche magic item would be my only chance to get armor with exactly the enhancements and materials I wanted. My DM is usually okay with characters seeking and acquiring specific magic items, but getting custom-tailored magic gear is something he'd be much more strict on, normally.

[Optimator]

Well, I feel silly. +10 armor is 100,000 GP. Weapons are 200k. Looks like I'm getting the armor AND shield!

[Vandicus]

Well, I feel silly. +10 armor is 100,000 GP. Weapons are 200k. Looks like I'm getting the armor AND shield!

*Deleted because of wrongness :smallbiggrin:

[tyckspoon]

Sorry, enhancement cost is cumulative, not just the cost for one stage. Easy mistake, I know some of my PCs have made it before.

..what? A +10 equivalent armor costs 100,000 GP, plus some change for the actual armor itself. It's the same cost whether you buy it in one go or have it upgraded to that part.. see rule example on upgrading a sword:

Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

You seem to be suggesting that a +10 equivalent armor should cost (100k+81k+64k+49k...) which is.. ludicrous and not supported by anything anywhere. And if that's what you're enforcing, I kinda feel sorry for your players.

[Vandicus]

..what? A +10 equivalent armor costs 100,000 GP, plus some change for the actual armor itself. It's the same cost whether you buy it in one go or have it upgraded to that part.. see rule example on upgrading a sword:


You seem to be suggesting that a +10 equivalent armor should cost (100k+81k+64k+49k...) which is.. ludicrous and not supported by anything anywhere. And if that's what you're enforcing, I kinda feel sorry for your players.

My bad, sorry for the mix up. Need more caffeine.

*EDIT

As a side note, I mixed the cost system up with the homebrew low magic setting that I'm playing in, and am about to leave for. The DM decided to adjust the price system to cumulativeness.

[herrhauptmann]

Whatever else you do, I recommend getting 'durable' on your armor.

Imagine how sad you'll feel if your next random encounter is against a bunch of advanced rust monsters. Goodbye +5 celestial chain shirt with Heavy Fortification.

[Optimator]

Ok, I've decided on the armor. +3 Susalian Chainweave (from COmplete Warrior)Celestial (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#celestialArmor) Armor with Soulfire and Gleaming (or blurring and greater blurring, pretty much the same thing for the same price). Greater Crystal of Adaptation inside as well. Gonna ask the DM to trade the normal Fly ability to have the ACP be 0 instead of -2.

Additional GP enhancements are Anti-Impact, Deepdweller, Called (going to asked for an improved Called so I can un-call my armor back to my bag or whatever too), Glamered (hey, it's cheap and the character would do it), Blueshine, and Magic-Eating. 142,200 GP in magic enhancements, 32,150 in materials (chainmail + susalian chainweave + mithral). $174,350 total.

Still deciding on the shield though. So far I'm thinking +3 mithral or darkwood (any advantage of one over the other? Any better materials?) buckler with Heavy Fortification and Energy Immunity, plus a Greater Crystal of Arrow Deflection. Not sure on GP enhancements yet, if any.

I was originally looking toward Ghost Ward on both of these, but I can cast Ray Deflection and Celerity sooo... yeah. The character is very well equipped defensively, so I'm just looking to shore up all my bases here.

[herrhauptmann]

You forgot Durable (Dungeonscape) and/or Blueshine (MiC).

Without those, your armor will get devoured by a rustmonster. And there's a few magic traps that will eat your metal equipment without even the chance of a save.

Fortunately, they're both cheap, flatcost items.

[Optimator]

You forgot Durable (Dungeonscape) and/or Blueshine (MiC).

Did I, now?


Without those, your armor will get devoured by a rustmonster. And there's a few magic traps that will eat your metal equipment without even the chance of a save.

Will it, now? My level 17 Sorcerer-lite, packing Celerity and a myriad of other defenses, will get blindsided by a rust monster? Not likely. That enhancement is for one thing: Rust Dragons :smalltongue:.

Seriously though, they are indeed good buys.

[tyckspoon]

Still deciding on the shield though. So far I'm thinking +3 mithral or darkwood (any advantage of one over the other? Any better materials?) buckler with Heavy Fortification and Energy Immunity, plus a Greater Crystal of Arrow Deflection. Not sure on GP enhancements yet, if any.


Mithral. Darkwood doesn't clear the spell failure chance- you only get excused for casting in light armor, not shields.

[herrhauptmann]

Did I, now?

Will it, now? My level 17 Sorcerer-lite, packing Celerity and a myriad of other defenses, will get blindsided by a rust monster? Not likely. That enhancement is for one thing: Rust Dragons :smalltongue:.

Seriously though, they are indeed good buys.

For every defense you have, the DM has ways to bypass them if he wishes. Are you sure you're safe from the party barbarian, fighter or monk activating that trap I mentioned?:smalleek: It's only a CR 10 trap.

Big bad has a trap that can be activated by stepping on the wrong tile, OR by him hitting a switch. He then chooses to activate it while you're fighting his high level supporters.
You ignore the ooze that oozes up to you in favor of killing/stopping something you deem an actual threat, and on its turn, it eats your equipment. :smallfurious:
Mind you, I really feel that trap is 'unfair' in the same way that Disjunction is unfair. Worse, we couldn't even get XP for 'defeating' that trap, it was so much lower of a CR compared to our party. :(

Rust dragons? Which books are they in? MM5? Draco-nom-nom-icon?


edit: Am I bitter? Nah...