View Full Version : ridiculous cost of construction
big teej
2011-07-21, 12:52 AM
my quandry is simple... and my irritation is great.
the Dread Guard (MM II)
a CR 2 animated suit of armor.
costs 40,000!!! FOURTY THOUSAND! gold pieces to create.
my question is why?
and is there anything unreasonable about reducing that cost to say... somethign closer to a 10th of it's current cost?
4,000 gp or so?
400?
14,000?
anything more resonable than a 5 digit number.
but mostly I'm after an explanation.
please and thankyou
WotC is, in general, scared of players getting their hands on golems, guardians, or other constructs.
They slip and forget this, sometimes, but in general? Yeah, if it's not some flavor of homunculus or an effigy, it's priced so high that the GM doesn't have to ban it.
The-Mage-King
2011-07-21, 12:56 AM
It's MM II. Don't even bother looking for a reason.
Anyway, with the Apprentice (Craftsman) feat, Extraordinary Artisan feat, and the Magical Artisan (Craft Construct) feat, I can drop the price by 60% (10+25+25=60).
Does that help?
big teej
2011-07-21, 01:06 AM
WotC is, in general, scared of players getting their hands on golems, guardians, or other constructs.
They slip and forget this, sometimes, but in general? Yeah, if it's not some flavor of homunculus or an effigy, it's priced so high that the GM doesn't have to ban it.
but...
WHY!?! :smalleek: :smallfurious:
an iron golem too soon I can understand
BUT IT'S A LIVING SUIT OF BANDED MAIL!
not full plate, not half plate, not battle or mountian plate, BANDED MAIL!!!
It's MM II. Don't even bother looking for a reason.
Anyway, with the Apprentice (Craftsman) feat, Extraordinary Artisan feat, and the Magical Artisan (Craft Construct) feat, I can drop the price by 60% (10+25+25=60).
Does that help?
by my count.... that's still something like 24,000 gold... so while helpful... still outrageous
back to my other question
is 4,000 "too low" for a Dread Guard?
Ashram
2011-07-21, 01:08 AM
Yeah, what Mage King said. Doubtless your DM won't lower the price for you, so your best bet is cost reducers for construct creations; but be warned, your DM may put his foot down on these too, especially for two feats that give you 25% off, you're already crafting at 1/4 of the base price.
big teej
2011-07-21, 01:11 AM
Yeah, what Mage King said. Doubtless your DM won't lower the price for you, so your best bet is cost reducers for construct creations; but be warned, your DM may put his foot down on these too, especially for two feats that give you 25% off, you're already crafting at 1/4 of the base price.
well, I'm also asking for purposes when I DM, which is part of why I'm wondering if it's an outrageous thing to lower this specific constructs crafting price down to a 10th of the listed price.
Ashram
2011-07-21, 01:12 AM
Hold on, hold on!
3.5 update for dread guard:
Cost to create: 3,059 gp (includes masterwork banded mail and masterwork light steel shield) + 178 XP
Market price: 5,000 gp
The-Mage-King
2011-07-21, 01:12 AM
by my count.... that's still something like 24,000 gold... so while helpful... still outrageous
16000 gp, actually.
As for the 4000 being too low... hm... maybe and even 5k would be better.
The high cost was because there are technically no suits of banded mail in existence, and the art of making it had long since been lost.
It is well known that every adventurer ever to exist pretty much only ever bothered with full plate. :smalltongue:
Ashram
2011-07-21, 01:15 AM
See my previous post for the official answer. :P
RaggedAngel
2011-07-21, 01:18 AM
The high cost was because there are technically no suits of banded mail in existence, and the art of making it had long since been lost.
It is well known that every adventurer ever to exist pretty much only ever bothered with full plate. :smalltongue:
Not quite true; it's either a Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt, Mithral Breastplate, Or Mithral Full Plate.
Unless you're a Druid, but they don't need any help.
Ashram
2011-07-21, 01:19 AM
Not quite true; it's either a Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt, Mithral Breastplate, Or Mithral Full Plate.
Unless you're a Druid, but they don't need any help.
I've been known to do adamantine versions of all three of those armors. They sure are a pain to find. :P
big teej
2011-07-21, 01:23 AM
Hold on, hold on!
3.5 update for dread guard:
Cost to create: 3,059 gp (includes masterwork banded mail and masterwork light steel shield) + 178 XP
Market price: 5,000 gp
ya know.... I really wish I could remember who told me MM II was 3.5....
cuz I'd be like "hey -name- .... you lied to me... why would you do that?
why would you lie to teej?
:smallfrown: "
yep, that's what I'd do.
that said, thankyou very, very much for this little gem of information.
now my plans can proceed :nale:
Not quite true; it's either a Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt, Mithral Breastplate, Or Mithral Full Plate.
Unless you're a Druid, but they don't need any help.
Haha, I meant for the "Heavy" armor catagory. Not too many sets of mithral half-plate out there.
Runestar
2011-07-21, 06:54 AM
In general, 3.0 had inflated golem construction costs. I guess the designers really overestimated their worth to a party.
NecroRick
2011-07-21, 08:21 AM
I must have the old MM II because it doesn't list the +20 hp a medium construct should(?) get.
I think what you should do price-wise is look at it from the point of view of an Iron Defender with 3 extra hit dice. Then anything under 1250 + 2,000 x3 or 7250gp total is 'too cheap'
PairO'Dice Lost
2011-07-21, 08:48 AM
I must have the old MM II because it doesn't list the +20 hp a medium construct should(?) get.
There's no "old" and "new" MM2, there's only one 3.0 MM2 which was updated to 3.5 via an online 3.0-to-3.5 update document on the WotC site. I can't link it from work, but google "MM2 3.5 update" and you'll find it.
Aerlock
2011-07-21, 08:56 AM
Hold on, hold on!
3.5 update for dread guard:
Cost to create: 3,059 gp (includes masterwork banded mail and masterwork light steel shield) + 178 XP
Market price: 5,000 gp
What book was this in? The 3.5 update pdf?
- Aerlock
Apophis
2011-07-21, 09:36 AM
Here's (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a) a link to the file.
Ryu_Bonkosi
2011-07-21, 09:53 AM
*Snip*now my plans can proceed :nale:*Snip*
May we inquire as to what these plans are?
HunterOfJello
2011-07-21, 10:04 AM
3.0e items are highly overpriced for the most part. If you look through the Arms and Equipment Guide you can see lots of items that are ridiculously priced for a low actual value in-game.
I think that many of the items in the 3.5e DMG are underpriced compared to the items in the Magic Item Compendium. It took a while for the developers to find the right pricing methods imo.
Lord Loss
2011-07-21, 10:13 AM
You can get Gloom Golems and Grave Dirt Golems (MM III and LM respectively) for slightly less money, if it helps. Were I to DM, I'd price them at around 4-8 thousand.
big teej
2011-07-21, 11:23 AM
There's no "old" and "new" MM2, there's only one 3.0 MM2 which was updated to 3.5 via an online 3.0-to-3.5 update document on the WotC site. I can't link it from work, but google "MM2 3.5 update" and you'll find it.
aha.
thankyou very very much, this makes my life soooo much easier
May we inquire as to what these plans are?
a minionmancy necromancer that also has several constructs (dread guards, shield guardians, runic wards, a golem or 5, slaughterstone behemoths, etc.) under his control...
and partly because I have a player that I think might like the idea of having a few dread guard servants.
Ryu_Bonkosi
2011-07-21, 01:16 PM
a minionmancy necromancer that also has several constructs (dread guards, shield guardians, runic wards, a golem or 5, slaughterstone behemoths, etc.) under his control...
and partly because I have a player that I think might like the idea of having a few dread guard servants.
Ah, cool.
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