Larpus
2011-07-21, 02:09 AM
Warning, long post is long.
Hello everyone, I've already bothered some of you about this couple weeks ago, and I thank all who have replied to my other thread, which was about choosing a gish-like class for a steam punk campaign where magic is not well accepted in some parts of the world.
The campaign hasn't started yet so I had plenty of time to read and think about the classes and concepts and, long story short, I've fallen in love with the Alchemist class.
I have always been a great fan of the crazy scientist concept and, after watching the TF2 "Meet the Medic" video, I simply couldn't get this urge of making an Alchemist out of my system.
My specific build is a mad scientist junkie type of guy, addicted to his Mutagen, who has little concern about social conventions (such as not thinking twice before using a random dead body for experiences), but knowledgeable and intelligent enough to know when to act properly. I'd also like him to be a bit of a con artist, like those "miraculous elixir" salesmen that are so common in westerns; another idea is to partner up with the Summoner and pose himself as some big villain who is defeated by the heroic Summoner who gains the gratitude (and money/food/stuff) of the towns. For alignment I'm thinking CN, as one who doesn't follow laws and conventions unless it benefits him and, while good aligned, is more than willing to get his hands extra dirty in the name of "progress". I think that he'll also have a rather creepy obsession with death, not zombies, but death itself and ways to revert/subvert it, since it's a recurring theme that I enjoy.
I haven't fully decided on my build yet, but my preferences are either Mr.Hyde or a Smoke Bomber (though I'm not opposed to a damage Bomberman), so I've cooked up a basic build for each of them, but I would like some help on them.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm not looking for uberpowah to punch the sun, but I'd like to be a decent character. We'll start at 1-3, maybe 5, so I planed my builds only up to lvl10, will expand to 20 once we get close to 10.
The rest of the party is going to be composed of a Summoner (either normal or Synthesist), an Artificer (not from Eberron), a ranged combat specialist and another one who hasn't decided, but may be a Rogue or Bard.
Also, we'll have a guaranteed 18 and roll the other stats, so I'll assume 2 14s, 2 10s and an 08. Races I'm considering are mainly Human and Half-Orc, but I won't count anything other than the +2 bonus on the builds.
Mr.Hyde
My idea here is to make a character who contributes in melee with damage when using Mutagen and, if possible, with maneuvers when not. I'll also use any alchemical shenanigans I create at least in the lower levels. Don't want to be a tank, just a secondary meleer, using a Rogue-ish mindset.
Scores
STR 18
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 10
CHA 08
Archetypes
Vivisectionist has attracted me, the Sneak Attack is perfect for a melee Alchemist, but the main draw here is actually Cruel Anatomist (Knowledge [Nature] in place of Heal for Heal checks), since it fits his concept and lack of concern with overall life to a T. The anthropomorphic animal sidekick/employee is also very interesting fluff-wise, if a bit expensive.
Internal Alchemist seems nice, particularly the ability to pretend to be dead, which can lead to some interesting tactics and RP. However losing Swift Alchemy seems a bit unfortunate (though I'm sure these items lose effect quickly).
Clone Master supposedly can't stack with Vivisectionist, but since Sneak Attack and Bomb share the same die, maybe my DM can allow to have my Sneak Attack die lowered to d4 and qualify for this. It's basically the Alchemical Simulacrum line at the expense of the Sneak Attack die, except the Simulacrums don't have the changes and the Clone seems slightly less useful than the Doppelganger.
Feats (odd levels) and Discoveries (even levels)
Lvl01 - Toughness or Iron Will (maybe Extra Discovery: Spountaneous Healing, the DM allows us to delay grabbing feats for couple levels so we qualify)
Lvl02 - Feral Mutagen
Lvl03 - Power Attack
Lvl04 - Infusion (this one defines the class for me)
Lvl05 - Iron Will (if it wasn't my lvl1 feat)
Lvl06 to 10 - No idea, but I do consider taking 2 levels in Master Chymist and grabbing either Dual Mind or Furious Mutagen as the Advanced Mutagen, not sure if that's worthy of losing a spellcasting level and delaying Persistent Mutagen to lvl16 if we do go over lvl10. Also, I consider taking Scribe Scroll (not sure if Alchemists can do this).
Weapons
I'll ask if I can trade my Weapon Proficiency: Light for Exotic: Whip and use a Scorpion Whip, I also consider burning the feat so I can also carry a Morningstar and an X-Bow; otherwise I'll use a Longspear instead of the Scorpion Whip. But obviously my ideal scenario is to be in Mutagen form dealing damage with my claws and bite for the extra dies of Sneak Attack.
Skills
Bluff - maxed
Craft (Alchemy) - some to maxed (useful to make some money)
Handle Animal - some to maxed
Knowledge (Arcana) - some
Knowledge (Nature) - some to maxed
Knowledge (Planes) - maybe, some
Linguistics - few
Perception - maxed
Spellcraft - maxed
Stealth - maybe, maxed
Use Magical Device - maxed
Formulae Selection, I'm only considering the ones I'll get by default or with level as otherwise I could as well list all of them.
Level1
Cure Light Wounds
Disguise Self
Enlarge Person
Identify
Shield
Vocal Alteration
And 1 more:
Ant Haul?
Comprehend Languages?
Polypurpose Panacea? (low priority)
Reduce Person?
Level2
Alchemical Allocation
Invisibility
Barskin?
Blood Transcription?
Level3
Haste
Heroism
Absorbing Touch?
Amplify Elixer?
Displacement?
Eruptive Postules?
Tongues?
Level4
Beast Shape II?
Monstrous Physique II?
Smoke Bomber
The idea here is to pretty much let go of damage in order to have battlefield control, using a ranged weapon to get busy when my Bombs are out and/or don't apply (I'll already have a bunch of the related feats anyway, figured going further wouldn't hurt); my main issue here is just how tight the build is compared to Hyde.
Scores
STR 08 or 10
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18 (+2)
WIS 10
CHA 10 or 08
Archetypes
Vivisectionist , more interested in Cruel Anatomist (Knowledge [Nature] in place of Heal for Heal checks), since it fits his concept and lack of concern with overall life to a T, so I'd ask my DM to have only this.
Internal Alchemist seems nice, particularly the ability to pretend to be dead, which can lead to some interesting tactics and RP. However losing Swift Alchemy seems a bit unfortunate (though I'm sure these items lose effect quickly).
Clone Master lowers my Bombs' damage, but my Bombs won't be for damage anyway. It's basically the Alchemical Simulacrum line at the expense of the Bomb die, except the Simulacrums don't have the changes and the Clone seems slightly less useful than the Doppelganger.
Feats (odd levels) and Discoveries (even levels)
Lvl01 - Point Blank Shot
Lvl02 - Precise Bomb
Lvl03 - Precise Shot
Lvl04 - Smoke Bomb
Lvl05 - Rapid Shot
Lvl06 - Infusion
Lvl07 - Focused Shot or Weapon Proficiency: Martial (Longbow)
Lvl08 - Fast Bombs
Lvl09 - Focused Shot if not taken at lvl7, otherwise no idea
Lvl10 - No idea, I also consider taking some levels in Master Chymist with this build, though the incentive to do so is much smaller than with Mr.Hyde
Weapons
I'll Weapon Proficiency: Light for Firearms: Rifle or Pistol (the world has firearms and the DM has allowed this sort of trade), I don't know how either will work, but it'll be modern firearms, so I don't think that reloading will be such an issue. If they blow I'll ask for Weapon Proficiency: Martial (Longbow) instead, if not allowed I'll grab the feat.
Skills
Bluff - maxed
Craft (Alchemy) - some to maxed (useful to make some money)
Handle Animal - some to maxed (if I get the Torturous Transformation feature from Vivisectionist, otherwise a clear skip)
Knowledge (Arcana) - some
Knowledge (Nature) - some to maxed
Knowledge (Planes) - maybe, some
Knowledge (others that have creatures related to) - maybe, some
Linguistics - few
Perception - maxed
Spellcraft - maxed
Use Magical Device - maxed
Formulae Selection, I'm only considering the ones I'll get by default or with level as otherwise I could as well list all of them.
Level1
Cure Light Wounds
Disguise Self
Enlarge Person
Identify
Shield
Vocal Alteration
And 1 more:
Ant Haul?
Bomber's Eye? (low priority)
Comprehend Languages?
Polypurpose Panacea? (low priority)
Reduce Person?
Level2
Alchemical Allocation
Invisibility
Barskin?
Blood Transcription?
Level3
Haste
Heroism
Absorbing Touch?
Amplify Elixer?
Displacement?
Eruptive Postules?
Tongues?
Level4
Beast Shape II?
Monstrous Physique II?
And here are some thoughts I had on the Discoveries I have not selected for my builds (haven't given any thought to the Bomb ones tho, still not entirely sure how the Smoker will play and his needs).
Alchemical Simulacrum + Greater Simulacrum and/or Doppelganger Simulacrum
Alchemists get those 1lvl later than a Wizard and with couple differences, but they look interesting enough (though I plan on taking it late), I've never used Simulacrum, how powerful (without abuse) is it? Can a melee build benefit from it?
Bottled Ooze
This looks interesting in concept, but seem kinda weak mechanically, anyone has a deeper insight on the issue?
Combine Extracts
Looks very nice, though I'd take it closer to level 10, earlier than that seems kind of a waste.
Enhance Potion
Sounds nice on paper, but not sure if it's worth a Discovery.
Extend Potion
Seems interesting to use in conjunction with Alchemical Allocation to buff myself.
Eternal Potion
Next step from Extend...is this really necessary? I can see it being useful for some short-term buffs, but only having 1 seems kinda low.
Grand Mutagen
Very nice looking, but not sure if it's really needed, looks much more interesting to Mr.Hyde than to the Smoker.
Greater Mutagen
A must for Mr.Hyde, not so much for the Smoker, though I think I'd still take it.
Preserve Organs + Mummificarion
Seems quite interesting, especially for RP, but I wonder, does the immunity to sleep means that I no longer have to sleep or it's only immunity to the spell sleep?
Spountaneous Healing
Looks pretty cool, if I did my math right it's mechanically better than Toughness (as in, as long as I survive, I get more HP/level out of this one), something more for Mr.Hyde, really.
Tumor Familiar
Looks like a fun little thing to have, how good would a Familiar be for an Alchemist? Also, can you make it Improved?
Vestigial Arm x1
Sounds kinda nice, but I'm not sure on its implications...such as, does it make you faster at reloading an XBow? Can you carry a shield with it and ignore the penalty to attack? If neither is available, then seems kind of a waste.
So yeah, it's basically that, I will decide which one to use depending on the party (though if someone can vow for one or the other would be nice) and would like to know how the builds look like so far and if anyone can give me insight on the spells and discoveries.
Hello everyone, I've already bothered some of you about this couple weeks ago, and I thank all who have replied to my other thread, which was about choosing a gish-like class for a steam punk campaign where magic is not well accepted in some parts of the world.
The campaign hasn't started yet so I had plenty of time to read and think about the classes and concepts and, long story short, I've fallen in love with the Alchemist class.
I have always been a great fan of the crazy scientist concept and, after watching the TF2 "Meet the Medic" video, I simply couldn't get this urge of making an Alchemist out of my system.
My specific build is a mad scientist junkie type of guy, addicted to his Mutagen, who has little concern about social conventions (such as not thinking twice before using a random dead body for experiences), but knowledgeable and intelligent enough to know when to act properly. I'd also like him to be a bit of a con artist, like those "miraculous elixir" salesmen that are so common in westerns; another idea is to partner up with the Summoner and pose himself as some big villain who is defeated by the heroic Summoner who gains the gratitude (and money/food/stuff) of the towns. For alignment I'm thinking CN, as one who doesn't follow laws and conventions unless it benefits him and, while good aligned, is more than willing to get his hands extra dirty in the name of "progress". I think that he'll also have a rather creepy obsession with death, not zombies, but death itself and ways to revert/subvert it, since it's a recurring theme that I enjoy.
I haven't fully decided on my build yet, but my preferences are either Mr.Hyde or a Smoke Bomber (though I'm not opposed to a damage Bomberman), so I've cooked up a basic build for each of them, but I would like some help on them.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I'm not looking for uberpowah to punch the sun, but I'd like to be a decent character. We'll start at 1-3, maybe 5, so I planed my builds only up to lvl10, will expand to 20 once we get close to 10.
The rest of the party is going to be composed of a Summoner (either normal or Synthesist), an Artificer (not from Eberron), a ranged combat specialist and another one who hasn't decided, but may be a Rogue or Bard.
Also, we'll have a guaranteed 18 and roll the other stats, so I'll assume 2 14s, 2 10s and an 08. Races I'm considering are mainly Human and Half-Orc, but I won't count anything other than the +2 bonus on the builds.
Mr.Hyde
My idea here is to make a character who contributes in melee with damage when using Mutagen and, if possible, with maneuvers when not. I'll also use any alchemical shenanigans I create at least in the lower levels. Don't want to be a tank, just a secondary meleer, using a Rogue-ish mindset.
Scores
STR 18
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 14 (+2)
WIS 10
CHA 08
Archetypes
Vivisectionist has attracted me, the Sneak Attack is perfect for a melee Alchemist, but the main draw here is actually Cruel Anatomist (Knowledge [Nature] in place of Heal for Heal checks), since it fits his concept and lack of concern with overall life to a T. The anthropomorphic animal sidekick/employee is also very interesting fluff-wise, if a bit expensive.
Internal Alchemist seems nice, particularly the ability to pretend to be dead, which can lead to some interesting tactics and RP. However losing Swift Alchemy seems a bit unfortunate (though I'm sure these items lose effect quickly).
Clone Master supposedly can't stack with Vivisectionist, but since Sneak Attack and Bomb share the same die, maybe my DM can allow to have my Sneak Attack die lowered to d4 and qualify for this. It's basically the Alchemical Simulacrum line at the expense of the Sneak Attack die, except the Simulacrums don't have the changes and the Clone seems slightly less useful than the Doppelganger.
Feats (odd levels) and Discoveries (even levels)
Lvl01 - Toughness or Iron Will (maybe Extra Discovery: Spountaneous Healing, the DM allows us to delay grabbing feats for couple levels so we qualify)
Lvl02 - Feral Mutagen
Lvl03 - Power Attack
Lvl04 - Infusion (this one defines the class for me)
Lvl05 - Iron Will (if it wasn't my lvl1 feat)
Lvl06 to 10 - No idea, but I do consider taking 2 levels in Master Chymist and grabbing either Dual Mind or Furious Mutagen as the Advanced Mutagen, not sure if that's worthy of losing a spellcasting level and delaying Persistent Mutagen to lvl16 if we do go over lvl10. Also, I consider taking Scribe Scroll (not sure if Alchemists can do this).
Weapons
I'll ask if I can trade my Weapon Proficiency: Light for Exotic: Whip and use a Scorpion Whip, I also consider burning the feat so I can also carry a Morningstar and an X-Bow; otherwise I'll use a Longspear instead of the Scorpion Whip. But obviously my ideal scenario is to be in Mutagen form dealing damage with my claws and bite for the extra dies of Sneak Attack.
Skills
Bluff - maxed
Craft (Alchemy) - some to maxed (useful to make some money)
Handle Animal - some to maxed
Knowledge (Arcana) - some
Knowledge (Nature) - some to maxed
Knowledge (Planes) - maybe, some
Linguistics - few
Perception - maxed
Spellcraft - maxed
Stealth - maybe, maxed
Use Magical Device - maxed
Formulae Selection, I'm only considering the ones I'll get by default or with level as otherwise I could as well list all of them.
Level1
Cure Light Wounds
Disguise Self
Enlarge Person
Identify
Shield
Vocal Alteration
And 1 more:
Ant Haul?
Comprehend Languages?
Polypurpose Panacea? (low priority)
Reduce Person?
Level2
Alchemical Allocation
Invisibility
Barskin?
Blood Transcription?
Level3
Haste
Heroism
Absorbing Touch?
Amplify Elixer?
Displacement?
Eruptive Postules?
Tongues?
Level4
Beast Shape II?
Monstrous Physique II?
Smoke Bomber
The idea here is to pretty much let go of damage in order to have battlefield control, using a ranged weapon to get busy when my Bombs are out and/or don't apply (I'll already have a bunch of the related feats anyway, figured going further wouldn't hurt); my main issue here is just how tight the build is compared to Hyde.
Scores
STR 08 or 10
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18 (+2)
WIS 10
CHA 10 or 08
Archetypes
Vivisectionist , more interested in Cruel Anatomist (Knowledge [Nature] in place of Heal for Heal checks), since it fits his concept and lack of concern with overall life to a T, so I'd ask my DM to have only this.
Internal Alchemist seems nice, particularly the ability to pretend to be dead, which can lead to some interesting tactics and RP. However losing Swift Alchemy seems a bit unfortunate (though I'm sure these items lose effect quickly).
Clone Master lowers my Bombs' damage, but my Bombs won't be for damage anyway. It's basically the Alchemical Simulacrum line at the expense of the Bomb die, except the Simulacrums don't have the changes and the Clone seems slightly less useful than the Doppelganger.
Feats (odd levels) and Discoveries (even levels)
Lvl01 - Point Blank Shot
Lvl02 - Precise Bomb
Lvl03 - Precise Shot
Lvl04 - Smoke Bomb
Lvl05 - Rapid Shot
Lvl06 - Infusion
Lvl07 - Focused Shot or Weapon Proficiency: Martial (Longbow)
Lvl08 - Fast Bombs
Lvl09 - Focused Shot if not taken at lvl7, otherwise no idea
Lvl10 - No idea, I also consider taking some levels in Master Chymist with this build, though the incentive to do so is much smaller than with Mr.Hyde
Weapons
I'll Weapon Proficiency: Light for Firearms: Rifle or Pistol (the world has firearms and the DM has allowed this sort of trade), I don't know how either will work, but it'll be modern firearms, so I don't think that reloading will be such an issue. If they blow I'll ask for Weapon Proficiency: Martial (Longbow) instead, if not allowed I'll grab the feat.
Skills
Bluff - maxed
Craft (Alchemy) - some to maxed (useful to make some money)
Handle Animal - some to maxed (if I get the Torturous Transformation feature from Vivisectionist, otherwise a clear skip)
Knowledge (Arcana) - some
Knowledge (Nature) - some to maxed
Knowledge (Planes) - maybe, some
Knowledge (others that have creatures related to) - maybe, some
Linguistics - few
Perception - maxed
Spellcraft - maxed
Use Magical Device - maxed
Formulae Selection, I'm only considering the ones I'll get by default or with level as otherwise I could as well list all of them.
Level1
Cure Light Wounds
Disguise Self
Enlarge Person
Identify
Shield
Vocal Alteration
And 1 more:
Ant Haul?
Bomber's Eye? (low priority)
Comprehend Languages?
Polypurpose Panacea? (low priority)
Reduce Person?
Level2
Alchemical Allocation
Invisibility
Barskin?
Blood Transcription?
Level3
Haste
Heroism
Absorbing Touch?
Amplify Elixer?
Displacement?
Eruptive Postules?
Tongues?
Level4
Beast Shape II?
Monstrous Physique II?
And here are some thoughts I had on the Discoveries I have not selected for my builds (haven't given any thought to the Bomb ones tho, still not entirely sure how the Smoker will play and his needs).
Alchemical Simulacrum + Greater Simulacrum and/or Doppelganger Simulacrum
Alchemists get those 1lvl later than a Wizard and with couple differences, but they look interesting enough (though I plan on taking it late), I've never used Simulacrum, how powerful (without abuse) is it? Can a melee build benefit from it?
Bottled Ooze
This looks interesting in concept, but seem kinda weak mechanically, anyone has a deeper insight on the issue?
Combine Extracts
Looks very nice, though I'd take it closer to level 10, earlier than that seems kind of a waste.
Enhance Potion
Sounds nice on paper, but not sure if it's worth a Discovery.
Extend Potion
Seems interesting to use in conjunction with Alchemical Allocation to buff myself.
Eternal Potion
Next step from Extend...is this really necessary? I can see it being useful for some short-term buffs, but only having 1 seems kinda low.
Grand Mutagen
Very nice looking, but not sure if it's really needed, looks much more interesting to Mr.Hyde than to the Smoker.
Greater Mutagen
A must for Mr.Hyde, not so much for the Smoker, though I think I'd still take it.
Preserve Organs + Mummificarion
Seems quite interesting, especially for RP, but I wonder, does the immunity to sleep means that I no longer have to sleep or it's only immunity to the spell sleep?
Spountaneous Healing
Looks pretty cool, if I did my math right it's mechanically better than Toughness (as in, as long as I survive, I get more HP/level out of this one), something more for Mr.Hyde, really.
Tumor Familiar
Looks like a fun little thing to have, how good would a Familiar be for an Alchemist? Also, can you make it Improved?
Vestigial Arm x1
Sounds kinda nice, but I'm not sure on its implications...such as, does it make you faster at reloading an XBow? Can you carry a shield with it and ignore the penalty to attack? If neither is available, then seems kind of a waste.
So yeah, it's basically that, I will decide which one to use depending on the party (though if someone can vow for one or the other would be nice) and would like to know how the builds look like so far and if anyone can give me insight on the spells and discoveries.