Rules for tying someone up?

[Eldan]

I was working on a little bit of homebrew, and discovered something: I can't find any rules on what tying someone up actually does, be it with manacles or rope. Rules on how it is accomplished and what escape DCs are, yes, but neither in the conditions sections, the actual items, the use rope skill or in the movement/exploration section of the SRD is mentioned what being tied up or tied to something actually does.

Are there any rules for this somewhere I missed?

[Temet Nosce]

I could swear there was more than this, but the only thing a quick check showed me was that one of the situations that qualify as Helpless is being bound.

[Knaight]

I assume that was filed under common sense. The people tied up are considered Helpless. They can't move.

[Eldan]

I assume that was filed under common sense. The people tied up are considered Helpless. They can't move.

Oh, sure. I mean, I must have had dozens of situations in my games where someone was tied up. I was just wondering if the game actually ever stated it.

Edit: Ah, thanks. The helpless condition seems to be it.

[Talya]

Ah, and what if just your hands are bound?

[Eldan]

Good question... dexterity penalty, probably? No way to dual-wield? Can't climb?

Not sure, really.

[Talya]

There's a very amusing description in a forgotten realms novel of a bound drow wizard making somatic components of his spells with his toes.

[Telonius]

The Helpless condition specifically mentions being bound:


A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

The Entangled condition might cover it for some cases:


The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

So if he's in a snare (or other Entangling means) but not totally bound (as with a rope), there's a Concentration check possible.

For spells with Somatic components:


Somatic (S)

A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.

I wouldn't consider bound hands to be "free" for that purpose.

Regarding weapons, if only the hands are bound, there should be a bit of common sense applied. If the target is bound with both hands bound together, then no weapons at all. If the target is manacled but fingers are free to grasp things, then no two-handed weapons and no bows.

[Talya]

If the target is manacled but fingers are free to grasp things, then no two-handed weapons and no bows.

I can see that with bows, but...with an average pair of handcuffs, if cuffed in front of me, I can't see any problems gripping a 2h sword. Perhaps issues manipulating it, but not gripping. (Penalty to attack?)

[Telonius]

Depends on the cuff type. If it's a rigid bar between the cuffs - and I assume it would be, based on the picture in the PHB - the hands would be too far apart to grasp the weapon.

[Knaight]

I can see that with bows, but...with an average pair of handcuffs, if cuffed in front of me, I can't see any problems gripping a 2h sword. Perhaps issues manipulating it, but not gripping. (Penalty to attack?)

Gripping is certainly doable, if only with a weak grip. Swinging though? There are going to be problems, big problems. Two handed swords use fairly wide grips for a reason, and while you are probably less hampered than if you were to try to use a spear, but even basic swinging motions are going to be very difficult, let alone anything likely to injure someone.

[Ernir]

The most important rules are to decide on a safe word, and to always have EMT scissors on hand.


Ahem.

"Bound" seems to be an on/off condition by RAW. Either you're bound, or you're not (the Use Rope skill only refers to binding, and the Helpless condition only refers to being bound). No rules for tying just the hands, just the feet, or any combination thereof. Yeah, houseruling is definitely needed.

Quick suggestions:

Hands tightly bound: The creature is entangled, and can not make use of its hands in combat. It may situationally be able to accomplish simple tasks requiring the use of hands, such as opening a door. It loses its dexterity bonus to AC. It takes a -10 penalty on swim checks. It can not climb.
Hands loosely bound: The creature is entangled. It can not use its arms independently of one another, preventing it from using two weapons or from simultaneously using a shield and a weapon. It takes a -8 penalty on swim and climb checks.
Feet loosely bound: The creature is entangled. It loses its dexterity bonus to AC. It takes a -10 penalty on swim and climb checks.
Feet tightly bound: The creature's land speed drops to 5' (assuming it had a speed of 5' or more), preventing it from taking 5' steps. It loses its dexterity bonus to AC. It takes a -16 penalty on swim checks, and can not climb.

[Eldan]

I'm not sure a -10 penalty is warranted, exactly. I've swum a few lengths with only my arms or only my feet, and there wasn't much of a problem with that. And I most certainly have a negative strength modifier already.

[Talya]

The most important rules are to decide on a safe word, and to always have EMT scissors on hand.



Very important rules, to be sure.

[Knaight]

I'm not sure a -10 penalty is warranted, exactly. I've swum a few lengths with only my arms or only my feet, and there wasn't much of a problem with that. And I most certainly have a negative strength modifier already.

Yeah, but swimming in calm water, without being weighed down, probably in a decent temperature doesn't exactly have a high DC.

[Ernir]

I'm not sure a -10 penalty is warranted, exactly. I've swum a few lengths with only my arms or only my feet, and there wasn't much of a problem with that. And I most certainly have a negative strength modifier already.
YMMV. I don't consider myself a bad swimmer, but I have trouble swimming anywhere without both hands and legs. And being tied up is worse than just not being able to use them, usually. =/

EDIT: Then again, you could do things like a butterfly stroke just fine, regardless of how tightly your ankles are bound...

Very important rules, to be sure.
:smallwink:

[Eldan]

Yeah, but swimming in calm water, without being weighed down, probably in a decent temperature doesn't exactly have a high DC.

Actually, that's a DC 10, according to the rules. Which means that with a +0 modifier, you need to roll a 20 to swim with your hands tied up. If you roll a 15 or less, you sink.

Of course, the DC 10 is probably too high. I doubt untrained swimmers have a 25% chance to drown every 6 seconds.

[Treblain]

Actually, that's a DC 10, according to the rules. Which means that with a +0 modifier, you need to roll a 20 to swim with your hands tied up. If you roll a 15 or less, you sink.

Of course, the DC 10 is probably too high. I doubt untrained swimmers have a 25% chance to drown every 6 seconds.

I wonder if there's some crazy RAW exploit that could take advantage of that. Like, you throw fifty commoners into the water, and they sink, and you have ropes tied to them to power your perpetual motion engine.

[Eldan]

That's just cruel.

Hmm. You need a way to get them back out, though.

It doesn't say being tied to something stops you from drowning, right?

Take two, connect them to two ends of a giant set of scales. Whenever one drowns, the other is pulled out. Then connect that to, say, a pump.

[Treblain]

It's a simple idea. You open a hospital for commoners who have been critically injured by housecat attacks. Then you dunk them in the water, instantly healing them, and as payment for your services, it's only fair that they contribute to SCIENCE.

[ShriekingDrake]

Since you said that you're doing a little homebrewing, here are two skill tricks we've been using that I posted (updated here) on another thread.

Hogtier [Manipulation]
You can bind a creature quickly.
Prerequisites: Use Rope 7 ranks
Benefits: You can effectively bind and/or gag a prone, pinned, grappled, unconscious, or otherwise immobile creature in 1 round with an appropriate length of rope, sash, vine, cord, or similar material, provided that that material can bind a creature of that type, size, shape, etc.

Hostage Taker [Manipulation]
Your facility with ropes makes it more difficult for bound creatures to use magic to escape.
Prerequisites: Use Rope 10 ranks; Hogtier skill trick
Benefits: For an hour after you have bound and/or gagged a creature with a rope, sash, vine, cord, or similar material, Freedom of Movement will not enable that creature to automatically succeed on an escape artist check.