Action Hero (Fighter Class Fix) [D&D 3.5]

[Ziegander]

THE FIGHTER
Action Hero Variant
An exercise in action economics.

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/150/3/7/the_hero_of_time_by_srdunko-d67709o.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+1
+2
+2
+2
Bonus Feat, Weapon Aptitude


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+3
Bonus Feat, Forge Lore


3rd
+3
+3
+3
+3
Always Ready


4th
+4
+4
+4
+4
Bonus Feat


5th
+5
+4
+4
+4
Superior Reactions


6th
+6/+1
+5
+5
+5
Bonus Feat


7th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+5
Snap Decision


8th
+8/+3
+6
+6
+6
Bonus Feat


9th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+6
Array of Stunts I


10th
+10/+5
+7
+7
+7
Bonus Feat


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+7
+7
Decisive Strike


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+8
+8
Bonus Feat


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+8
+8
Tide of Battle


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+9
+9
Bonus Feat


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+9
+9
Array of Stunts II


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+10
+10
Bonus Feat


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+10
+10
Surge of Effort I


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+11
+11
Bonus Feat


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+11
+11
Surge of Effort II


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+12
+12
Bonus Feat, Combat Supremacy



Class Skills (4+Int per level, x4 at first level): Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Weapons and Armor Proficiency
A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

Bonus Feats*
At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two fighter levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats.

*(Borrowed from Pathfinder Fighter, of all things, then tweaked.)
Upon reaching 4th level, and every even level thereafter, a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

Weapon Aptitude (Ex)
(Borrowed from Warblade, then tweaked.)
With 1 hour of practice with a new weapon a Fighter may change the designated weapon for any feat he possesses that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus or Boomerang Daze) replacing one weapon for another in both the prerequisites and the feat's description. He must have the newly designated weapon in hand during his practice and he must be proficient with it to make this change.

A Fighter can adjust any number of feats with a single practice in this way, but he doesn't have to adjust them all in the same way. He cannot change the designated weapons in such a way that he no longer meets the prerequisites for another feat he possesses. Feats adjusted in this way remain so designated for as long as he likes. He may re-adjust to a previously designated weapon as a swift action within 1 day per Fighter level of adjusting from that weapon, otherwise he must spend another hour in practice to adjust his feats.

For example, Scathwell, human Fighter 6, possesses the Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus (warhammer), Weapon Focus (handaxe), Weapon Focus (longsword), Anvil of ThunderCW, and Hammer's EdgeCW feats. He finds a pair of enchanted shortswords and decides to practice with them for 1 hour to designate (shortsword) in place of any other weapons in the prerequisites and descriptions of a few of his feats, to the point that when he hits a foe with both shortswords in a round it must make two Fortitude saving throws (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + his Str bonus), one to avoid falling prone, the other to avoid being dazed for 1 round.

Forge Lore (Ex)
(Borrowed from Frank & K's Tome Fighter, then tweaked.)
A 2nd level Fighter gains Craft Magic Arms and Armor as a bonus feat and can produce alchemical or magical items and equipment as a spellcaster with an Effective Caster Level equal to his ranks in any relevant Craft skill (examples given below). This allows him to create items without needing to cast any of the required spells, though he must still take item creation feats to craft items other than weapons or armor.

EXAMPLES
Craft (Armorsmithing) - Covers armors and shields as well as bracers, gauntlets, greaves, helmets, and other similar items.

Craft (Bowmaking) - Covers longbows, shortbows, crossbows, arrows, bolts, and other related or similar items.

Craft (Haberdashery) - Covers all cloth and leather articles of clothing such as boots, cloaks, gloves, pants, and shirts, as well as other related or similar items.

Craft (Metalwork) - Covers metal jewelry such as amulets, bracelets, or rings, and other simple metal tools and goods like spades or manacles and bells or chimes.

Craft (Weaponsmithing) - Covers melee or thrown weapons.

Always Ready (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Fighter cannot be surprised, though he may still be flat-footed. Additionally, he doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity for retrieving items stowed on his person. Furthermore, he may spend an immediate action at any time to move up to his speed. If he does, he loses his move action on his next turn.

Superior Reactions (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a Fighter cannot be flanked and retains his Dexterity modifier to AC even while flat-footed. Furthermore, whenever an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the Fighter, instead of taking the attack he may perform any standard or move action. If he does, this action counts against his number of attacks of opportunity for the round.

Snap Decision (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a Fighter no longer loses his next move action when he uses Always Ready to move as an immediate action. Furthermore, he may spend an immediate action at any time to perform a standard or move action. If he does, he loses his standard action on his next turn.

Array of Stunts I (Ex): Starting at 9th level, a Fighter may take a free 5ft step at any time in the round regardless of any other movement he has made that round. Additionally, he does not give up his next swift action when he uses an immediate action. Furthermore, his reach extends by 5ft.

Decisive Strike (Ex): Starting at 11th level, anytime a Fighter makes an attack against a creature when it isn't his turn (such as with an attack of opportunity or through Snap Decision) his target is entitled to a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 Fighter level + Fighter's Constitution modifier).

If the save fails, the Fighter's attack resolves before any actions being performed by the targeted creature and is treated as if it were readied to interrupt that creature's actions, such that if the Fighter's attack hits the creature's actions utterly fail.

If the save succeeds the Fighter still makes his attack, but it resolves after any actions being performed by the targeted creature and does not interrupt it's actions (the attack deals all its normal damage).

Tide of Battle (Ex): Starting at 13th level, a Fighter may move up to his speed as part of any standard or full round action he performs. Furthermore, he no longer loses his next standard action when he uses Snap Decision to perform a standard or move action as an immediate action.

Array of Stunts II (Ex): Starting at 15th level, a Fighter may take one free 5ft step at any time in the round per five Fighter levels regardless of any other movement he has made that round. Additionally, his reach extends by 10ft per ten Fighter levels. Furthermore, he may take one additional swift or immediate action each round per fifteen Fighter levels.

Array of Stunts II does not stack with Array of Stunts I.

Surge of Effort I (Ex): Starting at 17th level, a Fighter may spend a swift action to gain either one full round action or a move action and a standard action. If he does, he is Fatigued (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fatigued) after he completes his turn and may not take actions in the next round.

The Fatigue wears off after 8 hours of complete rest and using Surge of Effort again while Fatigued, or doing anything else that would Fatigue the Fighter, causes him to become Exhausted (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#exhausted) until he takes 1 hour of complete rest.

Surge of Effort II (Ex): Starting at 19th level, the first time each round the Fighter uses Surge of Effort he is still Fatigued, but he may act normally in the next round. If he uses it again he becomes Exhausted and may not take actions in the next round.

Combat Supremacy (Ex): Starting at 20th level, a Fighter may use Surge of Effort as an immediate action. Furthermore, the first time each round that he uses it he is not Fatigued and may act normally in the next round. The second time, he becomes Fatigued, but he may act normally in the next round. The third time, he becomes Exhausted and may not take actions in the next round.

Additional Material

Combat Superiority [General]
Prerequisites: Base Attack +6, Combat Expertise, Combat FocusPHB2, Combat Reflexes
Benefit: You may make a full attack as a standard action or at the end of a charge.
Normal: You may make a single attack as a standard action or at the end of a charge.
Special: A fighter may select Combat Superiority as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Samurai Action Hero Alternate Class Features
Alignment: Any non-chaotic. Even ronin are disciplined and dedicated to often strict personal codes.
HD: d10

Saving Throws: Lower Reflex save to Poor progression.

Class Skills: Increase to 6+Int per level. Add Autohypnosis (Wis), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Perform (Cha), and Speak Language (N/A) to the list of class skills.

Proficiencies: A Samurai is proficient with his Ancestral Weapon but is not proficient with Heavy Armor or with Tower Shields.

Bonus Feats
A Samurai may take [Psionic] feats in place of Fighter bonus feats and may also gain Psionic Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/concentration.htm#gainPsionicFocus) without the need of a power point reserve.

Ancestral Weapon (Ex)
(Replaces Weapon Aptitude.)
A Samurai begins play with either a Masterwork Daisho set (a Katana and Wakazashi) or any other Masterwork weapon of his choice. This weaponry is considered his Ancestral Weapon. At any time he may go on a spiritual retreat and spend time in prayer devoted to his ancestral weapon for enhancement. This requires a sacrifice of valuables with a total worth equal to 1/2 the price of the effective weapon enhancement bonus the Samurai wishes to obtain (or 1/4 the price when enhancing the Katana or the Wakazashi of an Ancestral Daisho). This sacrifice can be of pure coinage, or it can be made with items as well.

This ritual requires 1 hour to perform and during the Samurai must spend the entire time in supplications before his weapon. Enhancements chosen for his weaponry go into effect 24 hours after the ritual is completed. A Samurai with an Ancestral Daisho must enhance both the Katana and Wakazashi at once. When he does he does not need to choose the same enhancements for each weapon.

As normal, the actual enhancement bonus of a weapon cannot be increased beyond +5 in this way, however weapon properties may be added to the weapon in their place.

A Samurai must be at least 2nd level to grant his Ancestral Weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. Every two levels after 2nd, the enhancement bonus the Samurai is able to grant his Ancestral Weapon increases by 1. Whenever the Samurai performs this ritual he can remove old enhancement bonus to exchange them for an equal amount of new enhancement bonuses.

Enhanced Ancestral Weapons are treated as magical weapons for all purposes except that their magic cannot be dispelled or suppressed, not even by an Antimagic Field. Any spell-like or supernatural abilities or effects produced by the weaponry are considered extraordinary in nature rather than magical. Out of the Samurai's hands his Ancestral Weapons are ordinary, if Masterwork, weapons.

Ancestral Guide (Su)
(Replaces Forge Lore.)
Starting at 2nd level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon may begin to take on a spiritual intelligence all its own. It gains Ego, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores each equal to twice the Ancestral Weapon's total effective enhancement bonus (do not add the Katana and Wakazashi bonuses together), and an alignment no more than one step away from the Samurai's (given by the DM).

An Ancestral Weapon never thinks that it is superior to the Samurai, but it can come into conflict with the Samurai or other wielders.

At first, this intelligence may seem to do very little, however as the Samurai grants his Ancestral Weapon greater and greater enhancements the effect grows more pronounced.


Once per day per +1 of the weapon's effective enhancement the Samurai, while wielding the weapon, may re-roll any one d20 roll.

Furthermore, an Ancestral Weapon with at least a +1 enhancement has the Empathy ability outlined here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm).

An Ancestral Weapon with at least a +2 enhancement gains hearing and vision out to 30ft.

An Ancestral Weapon with at least a +3 enhancement is able to speak to its wielder telepathically in Common.

An Ancestral Weapon with at least a +4 enhancement gains the ability to speak Common and its hearing and vision increase to a 60ft radius.

An Ancestral Weapon with at least a +5 enhancement gains its first Lesser Power as listed here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm).

As the Ancestral Weapon's enhancement grows beyond +5 consult the table, "Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, and Capabilities," to determine additional effects gained by the Ancestral Weapon.

An Ancestral Weapon with at least a +6 enhancement also gains a Special Purpose (to defend the Samurai and creatures of the same race and alignment as the Samurai) and a Dedicated Power along with it. Roll randomly to determine the Dedicated Power. Each time the Ancestral Weapon's enhancement bonus increases beyond +6 roll to receive an additional Dedicated Power. If a given Dedicated Power is rolled more than once re-roll.


An Ancestral Weapon's intelligence, communication, and senses cannot be dispelled or suppressed, not even by an Antimagic Field, however it's Lesser, Greater, and Dedicated Powers can.

[gkathellar]

I think this makes you the King of Fighter Fixes, on quantity alone if not also quality. On to the class:

No complaints about the chassis. More skill points and good saves is how it's supposed to be.

I like how you steal the sorcerer's spell-switching for bonus feats.

Weapon Aptitude is a really cool solution to an image problem I've always had: a fighter feels like they should be a real weapon specialist, someone who knows their way around a wide variety of weapons and who, more importantly, can apply the knowledge they've gained in one area to others. And this solves that problem! Awesome.

I'm iffy about Forge Lore. It seems like it should be an ACF, since it's not useful unless you take the relevant skills and it doesn't fit with a lot of people's idea of the fighter. I guess it's easier to stomach if you think of it as providing an option, rather than a focus of the class.

Always Ready (and Snap Decisions, later) are both really cool, especially since fighters don't usually spend their swift action, so they'll probably be using it pretty much all the time even before they get Array of Stunts I.

Superior Reactions is where the real good stuff gets going, I think, and at an appropriate level. I almost feel like the Fighter should get Combat Reflexes or a class ability like it, though. Since he gets more out of AoOs than anyone else now, it would make sense if he didn't have to take a feat tax to get a lot of them.

Do Array of Stunts I and Array of Stunts II stack? If not, they should, because otherwise you're not getting much out of number II at first. Both look very nice, though.

Decisive Strike's primary function actually seems to be making the fighter competitive with casters and martial adepts, who often only use one or two offensive abilities per round. It'll be less effective against other fighters and similar full attackers. Interesting.

Tide of Battle renders pounce, spring attack, and a whole bunch of other stuff redundant. Which seems fine to me, actually.

After using Surge of Effort (either version), how long does fatigue last? Until rest, or until the end of the encounter, or until the end of the turn? Bear in mind that the barbarian is getting Tireless Rage and the martial adepts can fire off Time Stands Still every other round by this level. Still, I guess that clears the way for a capstone which is truly excellent in light of the other abilities that class grants.

All in all, very nice. Captures exactly the feel I've always felt that a "fighter" has, and it works very well as a 20-level class, or as a dip, or as something to multiclass/prestige out of. Accomplishing all of those is quite a feat.

[Realms of Chaos]

Wait a second... between array of stunts, surge of effort, and combat superiority, this class gets 3 full rounds of action each and every turn. :smalleek:

Not as scary as the insta-hit fighter you made a while ago but still pretty darn scary.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Wait a second... between array of stunts, surge of effort, and combat superiority, this class gets 3 full rounds of action each and every turn. :smalleek:

Not as scary as the insta-hit fighter you made a while ago but still pretty darn scary.

Array of stunts gives you 25 feet of movement per round at 20th level. You can't use both sure of effort and combat supremacy in the same round because if you take an immediate action, you lose your swift action, and vice versa.
Edit: well, they get two free move actions and an extra swift/immediate action, but they still don't have the versatility of spells.

Wizards have time stop, factotums have cunning surge and font of inspiration, warblades and swordsages (and crusaders if they invest feats for martial study into diamond mind) get time stands still.

[Ziegander]

I think this makes you the King of Fighter Fixes, on quantity alone if not also quality.

Thank you, thank you. :smallbiggrin:


I like how you steal the sorcerer's spell-switching for bonus feats.

As a matter of fact, I stole it from the Pathfinder Fighter. I didn't even know that Pf had given this to Fighters, but they must have snuck it in after all of the Alpha materials. I tweaked it a bit, of course, but they had the original idea.


Weapon Aptitude is a really cool solution to an image problem I've always had: a fighter feels like they should be a real weapon specialist, someone who knows their way around a wide variety of weapons and who, more importantly, can apply the knowledge they've gained in one area to others. And this solves that problem! Awesome.

Totally agree. The Warblade originally got this ability, and it always felt like a 100% Fighter feature to me. My favorite part is that you look at Scathwell's list of feats and think, "holy **** those are completely terrible," but then, because of a little feature he got at 1st level he's able to turn that **** storm into a powerful combat trick (I know, I know, I could do worse, but I chose not to). Couple Weapon Aptitude with the ability to retrain feats and he'll be able to lose those extraneous Weapon Focus feats, if he wants, to gain new, more relevant, feats.


I'm iffy about Forge Lore. I guess it's easier to stomach if you think of it as providing an option, rather than a focus of the class.

I understand, and that's what it is meant to be after all. 2nd level needed something minor in my opinion, and the ability to craft magic items seemed fair. He's already a weapons expert tactically, I thought, why not make him a straight up weaponsmaster savant in every way imaginable.


I almost feel like the Fighter should get Combat Reflexes or a class ability like it, though. Since he gets more out of AoOs than anyone else now, it would make sense if he didn't have to take a feat tax to get a lot of them.

The beauty of it is that even without the "feat tax" Superior Reactions is a relevant 5th level class feature.


Do Array of Stunts I and Array of Stunts II stack? If not, they should, because otherwise you're not getting much out of number II at first. Both look very nice, though.

No they don't, but I think Array of Stunts II offers plenty of bang for your buck. You get +15ft movement per round, +10ft reach, and another extra action per round. You go from being able to use two standard actions each round to three. And it only explodes from there.


After using Surge of Effort (either version), how long does fatigue last? Until rest, or until the end of the encounter, or until the end of the turn? Bear in mind that the barbarian is getting Tireless Rage and the martial adepts can fire off Time Stands Still every other round by this level. Still, I guess that clears the way for a capstone which is truly excellent in light of the other abilities that class grants.

Fatigue's default duration is actually given in the definition of the condition, "After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued," but don't forget this one as well, "Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted!"

Though, it wouldn't hurt to clarify it.

EDIT (To Realms and Swiftmongoose):

Wait a second... between array of stunts, surge of effort, and combat superiority, this class gets 3 full rounds of action each and every turn. :smalleek:

Indeed, you've got it right. And if he wants to he can push himself for a fourth full round of action twice per hour (I just have to go back and edit it so that he can't use Surge of Effort while Exhausted).

Since he keeps his swift actions after using immediate actions, and since he's got an extra one he can take his normal turn, then Combat Superiority twice, then Surge of Effort once as well if he wants (moving to Fatigued).

I think what I might do is simply edit Combat Superiority so that it allows Surge of Effort as an immediate action, once with no drawback, twice with Fatigued, and thrice with giving up your actions next turn (not to mention becoming Exhausted).

[eftexar]

I like this class, it actually makes the fighter class usable (so you aren't just ditching it once you get the first two feats). The only nitpick I have is that having all high saves while also having both a high bab and hd at the same time is a tad much. I would suggest making one of the saves a low save or lowering some other stuff a step or two.

[nonsi]

I'm all for giving melees all the love they can get, but there are several things here that really irk the eye:

Feat retraining: I'd put them in the odd levels, when the Fighter is not investing himself in studying a new feat.

Weapon Aptitude: That one never sat right with me, because weapon training takes years. To broaden the Fighter's repertoire, you could give it automatically scaling W.F. tree feats and add new weapons every so many levels. Sure, it's a bit more complicated, but the complication ends well within the confinement of character build.
Retraining within weapon groups seems reasonable though.

Forge Lore: From where does Mr. Fighter get the magic to put into his craft?

Superior Reactions: Another “makes no sense” issue. What you’re saying is that if no one threatens the Fighter or is threatened by him (meaning nothing stands in his way), then he’s not entitled to this AoO – this sounds as if the fighter’s enemy is making his actions for him.

Snap Decision: It seems like “or move” should be dropped out of “standard or move action”, since he “longer loses his next move action when he uses Always Ready...”.

Decisive Strike: Is it effective vs. another fighter of 11th level and higher? If so, than this would shoehorn many high-level fighters to go to great lengths to avoid AoOs (and I see no counter measures vs. Snap Decision).

Tide of Battle: Once this one is gained, from the preceding features a fighter always gains an extra standard action. While this is certainly a significant power boost, I no longer see a tactical decision here anymore. Instead of battlewise, Mr. Fighter now becomes “Mr. muscle with a big sword and a permanent adrenaline rush”. This is also recurring later on.



>> "Indeed, you've got it right. And if he wants to he can push himself for a fourth full round of action twice per hour"
This, I believe, will have a negative effect on the gaming session (way way way too many dice rolls at once).
I argue that both the player and his companions will get tired of this picture faster than you'd believe (been there - on both sides - I know what I'm talking about).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Forge Lore: From where does Mr. Fighter get the magic to put into his craft?

You calling those Japanese smiths in legends spellcasters?

[Ziegander]

Superior Reactions: Another “makes no sense” issue. What you’re saying is that if no one threatens the Fighter or is threatened by him (meaning nothing stands in his way), then he’s not entitled to this AoO – this sounds as if the fighter’s enemy is making his actions for him.

What are you talking about? No creature that doesn't threaten another creature is ever entitled to AoOs for any reason...

Here's what Superior Reactions does: Creature A, threatened by Fighter B, provokes an attack of opportunity from Fighter B. Rather than taking the attack, Fighter B can instead take a standard or move action which counts against his AoOs for the round.


Snap Decision: It seems like “or move” should be dropped out of “standard or move action”, since he “longer loses his next move action when he uses Always Ready...”.

"Move up to his speed," is not the same as "move action."


Decisive Strike: Is it effective vs. another fighter of 11th level and higher? If so, than this would shoehorn many high-level fighters to go to great lengths to avoid AoOs (and I see no counter measures vs. Snap Decision).

You mean it would "shoehorn" high-level Fighters into avoiding AoOs from other high-level Fighters? What seems to be wrong with this?


>> "Indeed, you've got it right. And if he wants to he can push himself for a fourth full round of action twice per hour"
This, I believe, will have a negative effect on the gaming session (way way way too many dice rolls at once).
I argue that both the player and his companions will get tired of this picture faster than you'd believe (been there - on both sides - I know what I'm talking about).

Your worry over this causes me to wonder if you've ever played D&D at 20th level or higher.

[Ashtagon]

This seems quite powerful in the "hit hit things hard" department, but other than trampling over the action economy model, it doesn't really give the fighter anything more interesting to do. He is still essentially limited to choosing "move", or "attack" as his choices each turn -- he just gets to do so more often. I'm not sure "I hit him. Hard. Twice." is much more fun than "I hit him. Hard."

Good job on fixing the skill list though.

[nonsi]

What are you talking about? No creature that doesn't threaten another creature is ever entitled to AoOs for any reason...

Whenever an enemy <DOES SOMETHING>, instead of taking the attack he may perform any standard or move action.
OTOH, without a threatened opponent, this option doesn't exist (a standard or move action doesn't have to be restricted to attacking someone, you know).
It's like saying that if you stand in front of me then I can raise my hand, but if you're not there, then suddenly I can no longer raise my hand.




"Move up to his speed," is not the same as "move action."

Fair enough.




You mean it would "shoehorn" high-level Fighters into avoiding AoOs from other high-level Fighters? What seems to be wrong with this?

"go to great lengths" refers to feat-investment, since this option is quite powerful.
Also, at this stage, I see no counter measure for Snap Decision. It boils down to the question who beats who to the punch to screw the other guy up.




Your worry over this causes me to wonder if you've ever played D&D at 20th level or higher.

Quite few, I admit.
There's a good reason why level-20 campaigns are not so popular.
However, while there are reasonable acceleration rules for rolling a high-power damage spell, it would be a lot trickier to do so with say 20+ #att/round (and the picture of someone taking so many actions while everyone else is, in a way, "frozen in time"...........).

[gkathellar]

Whenever an enemy <DOES SOMETHING>, instead of taking the attack he may perform any standard or move action.
OTOH, without a threatened opponent, this option doesn't exist (a standard or move action doesn't have to be restricted to attacking someone, you know).
It's like saying that if you stand in front of me then I can raise my hand, but if you're not there, then suddenly I can no longer raise my hand.

That's ... always been true of AoOs. If you're complaining about AoOs in general, that's a different thing.

In general though, while the books may pretend D&D combat takes place in measurable time with quantifiable things happening, it's pretty much all abstraction. The idea that "I can exploit the actions of my enemy to affect the rhythm and dynamics of the fight" is pretty central to what AoOs are supposed to be.

I mean, if you really want to get into a debate about "realism," people also don't take turns letting the other guy take four swings before they get up and take four swings.

[Realms of Chaos]

As far as skills, I'm a bit curious about Escape Artist and the Knowledge skills. While I can see many of the new skills being used in a very centralized way by certain fighter archetypes (appraise by the master weaponsmith, tumble by lightly-armoed swashbucklers, survival used by wild-men and barbarians, etc.), I can't think of any particular fighter that would seem particularly reliant on escape artist and so it looks odd as a class skill over here.

Similarly, I can't think of any real precedence for warrior-sages (although monks may come close). You could argue that a religious warrior needs ranks in knowledge (religion), a cultured warrior needs some in nobility and royalty, and/or that a general needs some in war, I still don't see so much of a need for any fighter to have a full 23 ranks in a knowledge skill.

For example, it would only take a DC 10 to 15 (maybe 20 if truly obscure) knowledge (war) check to know about most famous conflicts, what strategies and troops armies have been known to use, and to recognize tactics as they occur on the battlefield (the stuff generals need to know). On the other hand, I'd imagine that a DC 30 check would only really be necessary to know every single conflict within the past century, the names of each leader involved in the conflict, the number of casualties on both sides of each conflict, the propaganda used on both sides in each conflict, the way in which the conflicts affected the economies of the fighting entities, and other miscellanea that only a dedicated student of war would even have any curiosity over.

In a similar way, adding knowledge to a fighter is an interesting way to flavor what type of fighter you have going but as the skills seem more like flavor than any central part of the fighter concept, allowing fewer ranks to be taken as cross-class skills doesn't seem that harmful in this situation.

Similarly, giving the class all knowledge skills simultaneously seems kind of overkill as I seriously can't imagine what a fighter with more than 2 skills would be like. Perhaps restrict it to Knowledge (any two skills) if you really want to keep it.

These are just nit-picks, though.

[Ziegander]

Also, at this stage, I see no counter measure for Snap Decision. It boils down to the question who beats who to the punch to screw the other guy up.

Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? Does something need to be done to address Snap Decision and/or Decisive Strike?

[gkathellar]

Maybe it needs a Reflex Save to avoid the interruption affect? That would give the sort of lightly armored, clever characters you would expect to be able to get around it a way to get around it.

EDIT: It also occurs to me that you might want to explicitly restrict characters from casting spells on actions gained via fighter levels. Just to restrict any Nar Demonbinder/Sublime Chord/Ur-Priest nonsense, and make the class viable for gestalt.

[EdroGrimshell]

... THANK YOU! I needed this kind of thing for a knife user i'm coming up with, this fits perfectly for her. I'll keep you posted if I get to use it.

[Ziegander]

Maybe it needs a Reflex Save to avoid the interruption affect? That would give the sort of lightly armored, clever characters you would expect to be able to get around it a way to get around it.

Seems reasonable to me. All in favor?


EDIT: It also occurs to me that you might want to explicitly restrict characters from casting spells on actions gained via fighter levels. Just to restrict any Nar Demonbinder/Sublime Chord/Ur-Priest nonsense, and make the class viable for gestalt.

Aside from, "you cannot use these extra actions to cast spells," which I simply refuse to do, how would you suggest I do that?


... THANK YOU! I needed this kind of thing for a knife user i'm coming up with, this fits perfectly for her. I'll keep you posted if I get to use it.

I love hearing things like this. :smallredface: Warms my heart.