Playing for Fun: Deciding on a Class?

[Rossebay]

I've been through many classes, getting some nice ideas for what to do, starting to get really into it, and suddenly dropping the ideas.

I had a Paladin idea, but it was too complicated, it didn't scale well to later levels, and it really had no viable prestige class options.

I had a dragon-riding fighter, but that just became boring quickly.

I could go on for a while, but one issue remains: I quite honestly cannot pick a class for the life of me. So, I've come to you, GitP. Help me pick a class that's a lot of fun to play, scales well, and isn't too complicated.

Our party is low optimization, except for the rogue/assassin who will be dipping into many classes, but even then his damage output should be easily matched.

I would really like a character that is very capable in melee, can heal itself, but has a few extra options for combat, and even more for flavor. I'd go for Dragon Shaman, but it doesn't have any casting ability. I thought about Sorcerer/Fighter Abjurant Champion, but even then, something just isn't sitting right. Maybe I'm just not doing it right.

Something I'd like to mention is that I dislike preparing spells, so try to not suggest any preparing classes.
The campaign is currently level 5.

Beyond that, have at it!

EDIT: That doesn't mean classes like Dragon Shaman are out! I just don't know what to do with it.

[Keld Denar]

Crusader 5. Tome of Battle to the rescue!

1) is very capable in melee CHECK!

2) can heal itself CHECK! (and others)

3) has a few extra options for combat CHECK!

4) even more for flavor. CHECK!
Diplomacy/Intimidate as class skills, divine patron or other devotion optional

[Kaeso]

So you need a class that's:
a) fun to play
b) can heal
c) has other spells
d) can melee
e) fits in a low-op group
right?

IMHO a perfect fit would be the favoured soul (complete divine). It's fun to play, depending on the spells you pick, has healing spells on it's class list but also some buffs, damage etc., is quite capable in melee and gets weapon focus and weapon spec for free. It also fits in a low-op group if you don't pick utterly broken spells, because it's less flexible than a cleric and lacks domains and turn undead.

[Nerdynick]

Not to be too unhelpful here, but it really depends on the person in question (especially in a low-op setting). I, for example, really like skillmonkeys.

Another option that fits with your criteria is Monk, though you'll have to wait two levels to get that healing (and even then, its only for yourself). They scale better than fighters, though they're still considered underpowered by some. They don't do casting though.

I, personally, agree with Crusader.

[Rossebay]

I looked at Crusader. And I looked. And I looked.
And I sighed. And I tried looking at other things. And I looked back to it.

I really don't like the feel of it. :\
It's just one of those classes, I guess. Same reason I had trouble with Paladin, most likely. I just can't do it.

[Cespenar]

Druid. Can be very effective in melee, can heal itself with Wildshaping, don't even need spells, but they are there if you'd need them.

[Midnight_v]

Perhaps... a psychic warrior?



Druid. Can be very effective in melee, can heal itself with Wildshaping, don't even need spells, but they are there if you'd need them.
Wow. He's right. I feel stupid. I agree with above poster.

[Rossebay]

Druid. Can be very effective in melee, can heal itself with Wildshaping, don't even need spells, but they are there if you'd need them.

This is true, but... I don't like the Wild-Shaping part of it, honestly. The whole druid thing kind of bugs me.

[WolfieDM]

Monk
But you need some kickass backstory

[Drelua]

How about a monk/cleric, soon to be sacred fist (CDiv)? That's something I've always wanted to try, I just never got around to it.

Edit: Right, no prepared spells. A monk/favoured soul could probably be pretty badass.

[Dralnu]

Sounds like you want to play a crusader. Lots of fun combat options, some non-combat options, you're very good at fighting, and you can heal. There's no need to dip into any other class because pure crusader scales great. You're basically a way superior and way more fun Paladin.

[Hiro Protagonest]

This is true, but... I don't like the Wild-Shaping part of it, honestly. The whole druid thing kind of bugs me.

ACF to the rescue! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger)

[Keld Denar]

How about a Tashalatora driven Monk/PsyWar? You are decent in combat because you stack size boosts to UAS damage. You can take Body Adjustment to heal yourself (alternatively, Mantled Warrior ACF with the Life mantle), you are so zen you can alter reality, and all that.

Honestly, though...your issue with the "feel" of things is rather naive. Don't rely on your class or build to tell you who you are. Find out who you are, and then build around that. 9/10 problems with a build not fitting can be modified by rejecting your reality and substituting my own ignoring what the book says.

Something may not be an absolutely perfect fit, but you can get close enough, and just refluff the rest. Don't get too hung up on the minor details.

[Endarire]

If you want an effective character who isn't a caster, pick a Tome of Battle base class.

Crusader is spiffy since it's self-sufficient in terms of HP and melee ability. You can also keep your party alive and use White Raven Tactics!

Crusader/(Cloistered) Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator is spiffy and thematic!

[Redshirt Army]

To deviate a little from the common suggestions, a Factotum with a little Iaijutsu Focus... focus... can be a viable melee combatant, can heal itself, and has marvelous flavor with plenty of extra options (their shtick is doing everything). Unfortunately, it may step on the Assassins toes, though if the rest of the party can go stealthy, playing a SWAT style campaign is great fun. Plus, if you ever get into Chameleon, you'll never have to worry about being bored with a characters build again!

[noparlpf]

Play a pure Truenamer. :smallbiggrin:

[Rogue Shadows]

Most important question first.

Whats your planned race?

[erikun]

Perhaps a Dread Necromancer/Bone Knight with the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat? Bone Knight is kind of a melee-type, Dread Necromancer has an inflict wounds at-will touch attack, and Tomb-Tainted Soul allows healing through negative energy damage (such as from inflict wounds).

Some sort of Bard may work out well. You have spells and wands for a bit of healing, and can probably have a lot of fun going into one of the bardic-music oriented prestige classes. You can do pretty well singing and smacking people with a longsword, even if you don't optimize it.

Warlock might be something to check out, as well. Use Magic Device skill for magical healing items, only a handful of abilities, and it's common attack is primarily throwing a handful of d6s at an opponent.


Help me pick a class that's a lot of fun to play, scales well, and isn't too complicated.
This could be tricky. Anything that "isn't too complicated" likely has flat +1 abilities, which means it doesn't scale well and (from what you've indicated) probably won't be fun for you to play. You aren't likely to find something more complex than a Barbarian that does what you're asking of the class.

[begooler]

A Bard/ Crusader with Song of the White Raven
A Bard/ Warblade with Song of the White Raven
A Bard/ Druid/Fochulan Lyricist
A Bard/ WarChanter
A Bard/ Abjurant Champion
A Bard/ Paladin of Freedom
A Bard/ Bladesinger
A Bard/ Basketweaver
A Bard/ Drunken Master
A Bard/ Beholder Mage

[Vandicus]

I'd recommend a cleric with DMM: persist, no magic items to expand turning powers or just enough to DMM persist Divine Power on yourself, and focus either str or wis depending on whether you want to emphasize your "other combat options" or your melee. This way you get healing and your other options.

Flavor can be more difficult, but with full cleric casting you can afford to take suboptimal feats for that purpose. Improved unarmed strike and the produce flame spell for a weak but still cool looking effect(fire punches).

*This is intentionally not super optimized and not focused on maximizing the potential of the cleric as per the request of the OP


If you don't like clerics, bards and rangers also have healing spells, and both classes have some decent melee options, although the effect of the healing spells is negligible at the time they learn them.

[Draz74]

If "melee fighting" includes "summoning mooks to melee fight for you," then a Warforged Shaper can fit all your criteria excellently.

[Tvtyrant]

Wildshape Ranger going into Chameleon gets you everything you could want and at a decent price; you get melee, healing, versatility and fun in a neat package.

[marcielle]

Simplest build that satisfies you're requirements is Tashalatora Ardent 20. IIRC you do not need actual monk levels to benefit from Tashalatora. The only requirements were skill ranks you would invest in anyway and a feat. You can punch like a gorilla, you have access to EVERY psionic power you could ever want with some clever mantle substitution( ACF from web enhancement) giving you utility and healing outright. Another nice thin is that ardents power list is tied to MANISFESTER level, not class level or ECL. That means with practiced manifester and overchannel, you can choose from powers 6 levels higher than other classes could. This means you could skip low level powers and go straight for the juicy ones. The legality of this was debated a while back and the conclusion was this was that not only was it legal by RAW but by RAI as well. Psionics are all completely spontaneous so no preparing.

I can't find the entry in SRD that say you NEED to be a psionic race to take psionic classes. If you really don't need to be a psionic race, I suggest human (both key feats at first level? Yes please) Or Illumian (if you go by magic=psionics, this gives you a few fancy tricks like giving up xPP for +xd6 to unarmed strikes for the whole turn).All you need to start kicking butt are tashalatora(taken at level 4) and practiced manifester. Take overchannel the second you reach 8. By this time you probably have some awesome powers.

[Draz74]

Another nice thin is that ardents power list is tied to MANISFESTER level, not class level or ECL. That means with practiced manifester and overchannel, you can choose from powers 6 levels higher than other classes could. This means you could skip low level powers and go straight for the juicy ones. The legality of this was debated a while back and the conclusion was this was that not only was it legal by RAW but by RAI as well. Psionics are all completely spontaneous so no preparing.
Picking higher-level powers using Practiced Manifester definitely works. I don't think it is RAI, but it is definitely RAW, and it doesn't really break the game either; it just gives the Ardent a nice worthwhile schtick compared to the Psion. However, it only benefits Ardents who multiclass. It does precisely nothing for a pure Ardent.

Qualifying for higher-level powers using Overchannel is definitely not RAI, and is ambiguous by RAW. Ask your DM before you assume this works.


I can't find the entry in SRD that say you NEED to be a psionic race to take psionic classes.

You don't. Any race can take psionic classes.

[marcielle]

:smallconfused:?

Wouldn't a level 7 Ardent with both Practiced manifester and Overchannel be able to use a power that costs 13 PP(7th level power)? Psions dont get those until level 13. Having a higher manifester level(for the same reason as SLA's ) AND maximum power level known sounds like a pretty good deal for a pure ardent, even if you will be burning through power points lickety split. Also, Psions get 4 9th level powers. You will get 7 or 8. Just have a couple of spare PP stores handy and you are set.

Or do you mean it won't WORK?

If not, why? Please tell me as I am planning to use this in my next character.

[Morbis Meh]

Alright I will give a suggestion that is low op enough to fit in your group, great at melee and can heal itself at later levels. Suggestion: barbarian (lion spirit totem for pounce and wolf totem for trip) now there are two options for PrC's. The first is Champion of Gwynharwyf from book of exalted deeds, basically you become a raging kick ass type paladin that has much less role playing restrictions (you do have to be chaotic good but that's better than LG imo). The second which is dripping with flavour and pretty awesome is Runescarred Beserker from Unapproachable East (it's a faerun supplemental) and basically you cut spells into your flesh and trigger then when you need them. Don't listen to the people telling you to play druid and definitely not the DMM: persist cleric because you will be a great deal more powerful than the rest of your party.

[erikun]

Wouldn't a level 7 Ardent with both Practiced manifester and Overchannel be able to use a power that costs 13 PP(7th level power)?
No, because:

A.) Overchannel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#overchannel) only applies when manifesting a power. It doesn't increase your manifester level permanently, so you will never have the "effective manifester level by one" active when dealing with leveling up.

B.) Practiced Manifester "can't increase your manifester level higher than your Hit Dice" (page 57, CPsi). It most definitely does not allow an additional +4 manifester level if you somehow have a higher level than your HD.

[mootoall]

Doesn't Practiced Manifester have a line saying something like "ML cannot exceed HD?"

[excruciarch]

Cleric 4 / Crusader 1 / Ruby Knight Vindicator 5 / Contemplative 1/ RKV +5/ Crusader +4
Something like that?

[Draz74]

Or do you mean it won't WORK?

If not, why? Please tell me as I am planning to use this in my next character.
Yes, I mean it won't work.

Doesn't Practiced Manifester have a line saying something like "ML cannot exceed HD?"


B.) Practiced Manifester "can't increase your manifester level higher than your Hit Dice" (page 57, CPsi). It most definitely does not allow an additional +4 manifester level if you somehow have a higher level than your HD.

This.

On the other hand,


No, because:

A.) Overchannel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#overchannel) only applies when manifesting a power. It doesn't increase your manifester level permanently, so you will never have the "effective manifester level by one" active when dealing with leveling up.

This one is actually arguable, because the Ardent's text doesn't say anything about "having high enough manifester level," it just says you can select powers that you "can manifest." So Overchannel could arguably work. Not that I would allow this particular bit of rules-lawyering as a DM.

[Telonius]

Simple, can heal self, good in a fight, options aside from melee, not so much love for ToB or Paladins...

Warforged Sorcerer/Fighter/Eldritch Knight (Repair Construct line will let you heal yourself)

Monk/Favored Soul or Cleric/Sacred Fist

Bard20

Bard/Sublime Chord

Bard/Dragon Disciple

Duskblade 20 (though it doesn't get self-healing)

[DeAnno]

I think (Illithid) Slayer (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Slayer) is probably the direction to go in, if you want a Melee character with some tricks, but no sorc, ToB, druid cheese, or prepared spellcasting. Depending on your specific wants and needs, you could do it in a couple different ways:

Psion 8/Slayer 10/... Is probably the best casting but the slowest entry and least melee-ish

PsiWar 3/Fighter 2/Slayer 10/... Works, and is a bit more flavorful than a standard Psiwar, though your manifesting is down three levels (you have feats coming out of the walls though)

Wilder 3/Fighter 2/Slayer 10/... Could be good if you don't want too many powers to worry about, you're down manifesting by 3 again but have the bigger pool of Wilder PP.

Of course you could just go straight Psiwar too, which is possibly/probably better than any of those besides the Psion 8/Slayer 10

[marcielle]

No, because:

A.) Overchannel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#overchannel) only applies when manifesting a power. It doesn't increase your manifester level permanently, so you will never have the "effective manifester level by one" active when dealing with leveling up.

B.) Practiced Manifester "can't increase your manifester level higher than your Hit Dice" (page 57, CPsi). It most definitely does not allow an additional +4 manifester level if you somehow have a higher level than your HD.

Thanks. Though, because of Ardent's wording, Overchannel seems more of a Maybe than Outright NO. Important thing is he can SPEND 2 more PP than his manifester level. Therefore, he can manifest it. Therefore, he can learn it. It'll fall to DM's call an party optimization I guess.