Wu Jen

[Admiral Squish]

Apart from the oft-discussed Giant Size spell, I hear very little about the Wu Jen class. Has anyone here played one? Or have experience with their unique spell list? I'm guessing they're T2 or T3, though I'm not sure at a glance.

[Psyren]

They are T2. They get enough of the big guns (e.g. Polymorph, Gate, Time Stop, Shapechange) to break the game, get both Wish and Limited Wish to access the others (e.g. Planar Binding) and have most of the lower-level utility as well (Glitterdust, Teleport, Alter Self, Rope Trick etc.)

I find their list very gish-friendly, even moreso than a Wizard; in addition to the aforementioned Giant Size, they also get Body Outside Body, Metal Skin and several spells that require ranged attack rolls like Decapitating Scarf. In addition, the asian/eastern flavor lends itself well to a "kung-fu wizard."

As a result, one of my favorite PrCs for them is Jade Phoenix Mage. It even has special mechanical synergy with them, due to Transcend Mortality + Emerald Immolation.

[Cruiser1]

Apart from the oft-discussed Giant Size spell, I hear very little about the Wu Jen class. Has anyone here played one? Or have experience with their unique spell list? I'm guessing they're T2 or T3, though I'm not sure at a glance.There are a lot of powerful Wu Jen spells that no other class has access to (outside duplicating the Wu Jen spell with Miracle). For example:

Body Outside Body: Make temporary clones of yourself! (For example, you get 4 at level 20.) They're identical to you, only with fewer hp and "cannot cast spells or use any spell completion or spell trigger items". However there are countless ways to abuse free (Ex) and (Su) abilities or class features. This spell is a core component of Team Solar: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188138

Cloud Chariot: Fly (along with your allies) at a speed of 10 miles per minute. That's 600 miles per hour, 1 mile per round, or a fly speed of 5280 feet. There's no other way to get persistent speeds like that without cheese. Outrun jet planes, and kill catgirls by shooting projectiles that hit enemies at speeds of Mach 1.

Reanimation: Bring someone back from the dead for free with no level loss! Sure, in that state they only have 1 hp and can't do anything other than move actions, so just intentionally kill them later when you have Revivify prepared for a nearly free True Resurrection. Better than Revenance since it lasts much longer still works on corpses that have been dead for days.

[Shade Kerrin]

In my mind, they are high T2/low T1.
They are perhaps the weakest of all prepared full casters, but they are still prepared full casters.
And as said, they almost beg you to go the magic warrior route with their spell selection, but they still provide plenty to those who'd rather stick with the casting.

[Starbuck_II]

Apart from the oft-discussed Giant Size spell, I hear very little about the Wu Jen class. Has anyone here played one? Or have experience with their unique spell list? I'm guessing they're T2 or T3, though I'm not sure at a glance.

I played one from 4th level to 14th level in a campaign.

They lack many good wizards spell but make it yp with a phtretha of their own. Fire Shurikens are permanent till used so you can make up numerous ones before battle so you always have a weapon (unless they are dispelled or something).

Snake Darts shoot out a decent damaging spell that lowers enemy con (no miss, 2 fort saves to negate like all poisons).
I've killed 2 (1 6 headed, 1 7 headed) hydras, 4 Fire Giants, and some mooks with it (alone, well the six headed hydra was hurt by the Knight in the party as well).
Fire Breath spell is awesome since as it isn't instanteous it sets enemies on fire, does decent damage, and lasts a while.

Basically the trick us to embrace the new spells when they can be used.
They can make amulets of natural armor (and I did with Craft Wonderous) since they have their own Barkskin type spell (1st level, Lizard Armor spell).

Metal Wu Jen can Greater Magic Weapon earlier than most casters since their caster is 2 higher.

[sreservoir]

Cloud Chariot: Fly (along with your allies) at a speed of 10 miles per minute. That's 600 miles per hour, 1 mile per round, or a fly speed of 5280 feet. There's no other way to get persistent speeds like that without cheese. Outrun jet planes, and kill catgirls by shooting projectiles that hit enemies at speeds of Mach 1.

well, there's this spell in a dragon magazine (and also in arcana unearthed, I guess), "fly like an arrow". it multiplies your fly speed by 10 as long as it's in the same direction, and you moved the same direction the action before. phantom steed maxes at 240, and if it uses both standard and move actions to move, that's 480*10 ft/rd, which isn't that far off. cloud wings brings that up to 540*10, which barely beats it, but requires a druid spell.

(of course, if cloud chariot is a fly speed on a chariot, you can get 10 miles per round. catgirls die everywhere, more or less.)

[Psyren]

They are perhaps the weakest of all prepared full casters

Healer would like a word :smallwink:



(of course, if cloud chariot is a fly speed on a chariot, you can get 10 miles per round. catgirls die everywhere, more or less.)

Sadly it isn't. It tells you how far you move in a round, but it isn't actually a fly speed.

[Shade Kerrin]

Fire Shurikens are permanent till used so you can make up numerous ones before battle so you always have a weapon (unless they are dispelled or something).

My group's always chosen read that one as being a more damaging but less accurate version of Scorching ray, which is also a pretty good use for a level 2 spell.


Healer would like a word :smallwink:


Wait, healer's prepared? Fair enough, then.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Now that I think so, how do Wu Jen get spell known? I think they get them as a wizard; but upon a quick reading of Complete Arcane, I can't seem to find it.

[Squiggles]

Now that I think so, how do Wu Jen get spell known? I think they get them as a wizard; but upon a quick reading of Complete Arcane, I can't seem to find it.

They get 2 spells as they gain a level, like Wizards do, and then on pg.16 under Spellbooks it says they can add spells from other Wu Jen books (which I would also assume covers scrolls, etc)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ah I see.

Then they cover all the qualities to be considered a [weak] Tier 1 (world breaking powers and being able to switch how you break the game on daily basis)

[Psyren]

Note that in OA/Rokugan, Sorcerers have access to the Wu Jen list too. And that's before we get into all the Maho/taint stuff. Rokugan really likes sorcerers :smallsigh:



Wait, healer's prepared? Fair enough, then.

Yep, and they can't even spontaneously heal like clerics can. So either they suck at healing, or they fill their slots with heal spells and suck at everything else. (And since they don't get the good stuff like Lesser Vigor, they still suck at healing.)

[Person_Man]

They also get an easy +4 to their caster level on their chosen element spells, which is nothing to sneeze at. +2 from their 6th level class ability, and +2 from a Wu Jen specific Rod of Elemental Might (9,600, Complete Mage).

[WinWin]

The Spirit Ally spells are fantastic. The equivelant Wizard Spell is Planar Binding. With the definition of Spirit defined in Complete Divine (spirit shaman) as fey, elementals and incorporeal undead, Wu Jen can call on some very powerful creatures.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Note that in OA/Rokugan, Sorcerers have access to the Wu Jen list too. And that's before we get into all the Maho/taint stuff. Rokugan really likes sorcerers :smallsigh:



Do you have a page quote?

[Cog]

Do you have a page quote?
The very top of page 30 in OA. A close reading might mean they have to choose between the Sor/Wiz list and the Wu Jen list rather than getting both, though.

[FMArthur]

What are you talking about, there are tons of Wu Jen threads all over the internet. It's just that they all happen to be "why does no one talk about Wu Jen" threads. :smallbiggrin: