Monk Replacement

[aquaticrna]

So i have a friend that i'm playing with who isn't big into optimization, unfortunately the rest of the party is mid to high op. He's playing a bard which he has a lot of fun rping and who i've helped him build into a very good buffing machine. He also has a cohort, which was intended to be there to help him feel more useful because he doesn't feel like he's doing something by making the rest of the party absurd. Unfortunately he built a monk. So i'm rebuilding his monk for him so that he feels more useful. I play casters and like my characters complicated so i'm not really sure where to start with this character so i'm turning to the playground for a hand.

The limits i'm working with are:
-monk flavor
-super duper simple, we're building a one trick pony that just punches things and (on a full attack) should be able to do something around 50-60 damage
-NO ToB (too complicated =P)
-lv 12
-the character has to be a raptoren

side note, we house ruled flurry of blows into a standard action.

[sonofzeal]

So you want a monk...

...that's powerful...

...but less complicated than ToB?




Good luck. :S

(To be slightly more constructive - at that point, just make up numbers for him. AC of... 30. Attacks for.... +18/+18/+13/+8(4d6+10). Whatever. Don't bother with actual builds, just give him numbers to throw around and try to make them competitive without being broken. Anything else either wouldn't compete or will be too complicated.)

[aquaticrna]

i don't really care if it uses the monk class at all, i'm just going to flavor it that way. My hope is that someone will know a couple good variants that fit the theme or some other class that i can build it out of.

[Prime32]

If you want simple, go barbarian with Improved Unarmed Strike. Lion totem + Versatile Unarmed Strike means he can make a full attack of double-damage unarmed strikes as part of a dive.

If you need more damage output, enchant his unarmed strike as a valorous weapon for another doubling.

[hivedragon]

Ummm.... what about playing a monk?
please don't hurt me :smalleek:
Edit: you might want to check out the pathfinder monk
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk

[Prime32]

Ummm.... what about playing a monk?
please don't hurt me :smalleek:Um, "He built a monk" was the problem the OP was trying to solve. :smalltongue:

EDIT: For the base Pathfinder monk not much has changed. Some of the archetypes are kind of cool, but too complicated for this.

[Gorgondantess]

Though, well, so long as there's enough stats to go around to sink into wisdom, either 2 or 6 levels in monk certainly does not hurt. Yes, I know it's a crappy class- so is fighter, and even it is a very decent one or two level dip (or more if you're going dungeoncrasher- which might just be a good choice for this build, actually, to keep it sweet and simple... something like Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 [6 right?]/Monk 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Whatever PrC 3). Just don't sink any more levels than that into it.

[Curmudgeon]

Straight Fighter 12, with 12 feats (7 Fighter Bonus Feats) including:

Improved Unarmed Strike
Hammer Fist
Power Attack
Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike)
Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Weapon Specialization (unarmed strike)
Superior Unarmed Strike
Snap Kick
Greater Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Greater Weapon Specialization (unarmed strike)

A Belt of Giant Strength is very helpful, of course. Add a Ring of Evasion for some more Monklike flavor. Basically this guy just punches things, and (with Snap Kick) punches them again. If you've got a Sorcerer/Wizard in the party, get them to cast Greater Mighty Wallop on the guy once a day to make the Monk Fighter punch harder.

Hammer Fist lets you punch two-handed to get 1½ x STR bonus on damage. Power Attack is a straight tradeoff between BAB and damage, since it's 1:1 for unarmed attacks.

Base AB unarmed will be 12 + STR bonus

12 (BAB) + 2 (WF, GWF) + STR bonus - 2 (SK)Base unarmed damage will be 2d8 + 4 + 1½ x STR bonus

2d8 (SUS + INA (us)) + 4 (WS, GWS) + 1½ x STR bonus (HF)
A full attack will be 4 unarmed strikes (including 1 from Snap Kick). That's an average of 52 points of damage before adding in 6 x STR bonus, and 4 x Power Attack penalty.

A Raptoran could start with 17 Strength pretty easily. 3 increments through level 12 will get you to 20. Even if you can only afford Gauntlets of Ogre Power instead of a Belt of Giant Strength +4 that makes it 22, for +6 STR bonus, or +9 damage with Hammer Fist. So that's 88 damage before Power Attack on a full attack, or 54 damage on a standard action attack if you Power Attack for 5.

[sonofzeal]

Actually, ToB shouldn't be that bad, if you choose his maneuvers for him and just give him the list of Readied ones. Print 'em on cards, each fight he starts with a full hand and can play one any time he wants. Ignore recovery mechanisms entirely, he has enough that it shouldn't matter.


Here's a possible list to use:

Emerald Razor
Cloak of Deception
Disrupting Blow
Bloodletting Strike
Shadow Stride
Moment of Alacrity
Ballista Throw
Scorpion Parry

For stance, Hearing the Air.

[Tvtyrant]

Dungeon Crasher Fighter with Superior Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick and Awesome Blow would make for a fair Monk. Have him use an Expansion item and then punch things into things.

[JaronK]

What about a nice simple Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Kensai 1? That gives all the standard Monk combat abilities combined with slightly better BAB and AC, as well as the ability to flurry with all weapons and the ability to enchant your unarmed strikes. That's simple and straight forward.

JaronK

[Zonugal]

Whirling Blade, Spirit Lion & Wolf Totem Barbarian 3/Fighter4/Fist of the Forest 3 is always an option.

[Midnight_v]

Ever want to play a martial artist, but found the monk lacking in power and badassitude? Ever look at ToB and say to yourself "Damn, that'll never fly at my table!" and cry in despair?

Well cry no more, for here comes a class based off of the manly and heroic heroes from such epics as The Water Margin and The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which delivers jianghu style kickass that enables you to promote honor and righteousness by beating people up across the land, be they local bullies, oppressive landlords, or corrupt government officials. You will kick ass, take names, and fall asleep in a drunken, Shaoxing wine induced stupor day after day with this base class.

Hao Han

"Anyone who does that you your sister might as well have done it to my own. You and me are gonna break into the magistrate's office tomorrow and make it so that he's not going to be able to lay another hand on a woman when we're done with him. May Haven help anyone who gets into our way cause no one in this world will."
- Lan Hua, the Nightshade of the Black Cliffs


Many people are repulsed by the great corruption and injustices that plague the world, but few have the bravery to confront them. However, there are men of honor and valor who will not hesitate to right wrongs that they encounter.

Though often uncouth and brash, a hao han - or "goodfellow" - is a man of integrity who knows the value of courage, loyalty, and goodness, though he may exist on the margins of polite society and often on the run for crimes that he has committed in pursuit of justice. This often puts him at odds with lawful members of society such as paladins, though not all hao han are that way; indeed, many are former officers of the law who have been driven out by jealous and corrupt colleges and forced to turn to a life of crime to stay alive.

The devotion to the idea of justice is the one thing that all hao han have in common, though they often differ in their interpretation of what exactly justice is. Though they tend to be good aligned, evil hao han have been known to exist, often men who commit excessive acts of violence in pursuit of justice.

Due to the fact that hao han are men of action, they tend to lead outlaws and incite rebellions against illegitimate authority, which often make them folk heroes to poor and oppressed peasants.

Alignment

Any

Hit Die

d12.
Class Skills

The hao han’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance, Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble.
Skill Points at 1st Level

(4 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level

4 + Int modifier.


Level Base
Attack Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Fast movement, righteous fury 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Uncanny dodge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Trap sense +1
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Righteous fury 2/day
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Improved uncanny dodge
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Trap sense +2
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Damage reduction 1/—
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Righteous fury 3/day
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Trap sense +3
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Damage reduction 2/—
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Righteous wrath
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Righteous fury 4/day, Trap sense +4
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Damage reduction 3/—
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Iron mind
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Trap sense +5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Damage reduction 4/—, Righteous fury 5/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Relentless Fury
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Trap sense +6
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/—
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Mighty wrath, righteous fury 6/day

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the hao han.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A hao han is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Fast Movement (Ex)

A hao han frequently finds himself on the wrong end of the law and forced to flee for his life ahead of the local authority. As a result, his land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the hao han’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn.

Righteous Fury (Ex)

A hao han can channel the anger he feels at injustice and oppression into his martial arts a certain number of times per day. In this state of righteous anger, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases his hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the fury when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While using this ability, he is so focused on punishing an opponent that he cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise and metamagic feats. This state of fury lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier and can be ended prematurely if necessary. Upon expiration, the character loses all modifiers and restrictions, becoming fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter.

This ability can be used only once per encounter. At 1st level it can be used once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, it can be used it one additional time per day (to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level). Activating this ability takes no time itself, but it can only be done during the character's action, not in response to someone else’s action.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

At 2nd level, a hao han's steady nerves allow him to retain his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a hao han already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Trap Sense (Ex)

Starting at 3rd level, a hao han's battle-honed reflexes grants him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 every three hao han levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

At 5th level and higher, a hao han becomes so accustomed to the chaos of battle that he can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the hao han by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has hao han levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Damage Reduction (Ex)

At 7th level, a hao han has spent so much time bursting through walls, tumbling through windows, and charging through doors that he has grown resilient to physical attacks and gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage he takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 10th level, and every three hao han levels thereafter (13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Righteous Wrath (Ex)

At 11th level, a hao han’s devotion to justice is so great that his bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his righteous fury each increase to +6, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +3. The penalty to AC remains at -2 so as to give the enemy a faint glimmer of hope at victory, which will only be brutally crushed by the hao han's mighty fists.

Iron Mind (Ex)

While in a righteous fury, a hao han of 14th level or higher gains a +4 bonus on Will saves to resist enchantment spells due to being just that angry over injustice. This bonus stacks with all other modifiers, as it damn well should.

Relentless Fury (Ex)

At 17th level and higher, a hao han's tireless devotion to justice prevents him from becoming fatigued at the end of his righteous fury. This often strikes fear into the hearts of bad men everywhere, as there is absolutely nothing preventing a swift beating from being delivered to their respective faces.

Mighty Wrath (Ex)

At 20th level, a hao han’s belief in righteousness is such that bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his righteous fury each increase to +8, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +4. The penalty to AC remains at -2. In addition, anyone who is an enemy of honor, valor, and justice through the land immediately soils their clothing.

Alternate Class Features

A Touch of Zen
Replaces: Fast movement
Level 1 benefit: When a hao han decides that he has had enough of running and would rather face down his opponents in a manly fashion, enabling him to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Fists of Fury
Replaces: Righteous Fury
Level 1 benefit: A hao han who prefers to beat up his enemies with a flurry of blows may choose an alternate martial technique that enables him to strike faster and temporarily gain a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While using his fists of fury, the hao han may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a ?2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity that might make before his next action.

Fists of fury is otherwise identical to the standard righteous fury in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard hao han gains righteous wrath), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard hao han gains mighty wrath), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A hao han using this variant doesn’t gain iron min at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while using fists of fury.

This ability cannot be used with righteous fury, rage, whirling frenzy, or any similar ability.

Fist of Legend
Replaces: Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Level 2 benefit: A hao han who favors hand to hand combat may choose to gain the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and deal 1d6 damage with his fists instead of dodging blows like a coward.
Level 5 benefit: The damage dealt by a hao han's fists increases to 1d8.

Snake in the Eagle's Shadow
Replaces: Trapsense
Level 3 benefit: A cunning hao han may decide that it is better to neutralize traps with his hands rather than his body. He learns to use his Survival skill to find mundane traps and can disable them with an attack roll if the result is equal to the DC to disarm the trap.

Kung Fu Hustle
Replaces: Damage Reduction
Level 10 benefit: A reckless hao han values offense more than defense and forgoes the ability to withstand damage in favor of delivering a full attack as a standard action
This is ported to you from Bg's and created by the ever awesome "Solo"

[marcielle]

Archetypes are just ACF sets and Pathfinders hungry ghost monk is actually quite good, though probably still not good enough for minmaxers. Punishing kick is awesome early on if you have an ankhlet of teleportation. Flurry at full BAB. Substitute last hit with Punishing Kick. Telehop. End up 15-25 feet away from monster. He actually becomes an efficient striker. Also, put some ranks in survival(hunting) or have a bag of tricks. Congrats , you have INFINITE healing so long as you have 1 ki left.That said, later monk levels still suck(stop taking them once hungry ghost ends). Give him a wratful healing(from Enemies and Allies) necklace of natural attacks(I'm not sure if it is a weapon or some manner of wondrous item but it is from savage species). He will now Heal faster than most things can hurt him with their standard action attack. 10 ft knockback at level 10 means even reach doesn't screw this up. Just be smart with enemy movement patterns and coordinate with allies. Knock enemies that have escaped snare right back in or knock a guy into Grease and technically he should just keep sliding due to momentum or flat out fall prone.

This has been said to death but Tashalatora Psionics make better monks than monks. Psywar is the obvious choice but Ardent has access to EVERY POWER EVER. Not to mention a few awesome domain abilities. Note that IIRC you don't need actual levels of monk to benefit from Tash so you get all a monks worthwhile abilities for 1 feat at level 4. Level 2 if you can argue the case for Psywar bonus feats.

A refluffed totemist might make a good wuxia monk(in D&D monks would probably emulate MAGICAL animals over real ones anyway). You'd get to call out all sorts of crazy attack names:smallbiggrin:. Only sugesting this in case you already understand Incarnum.

Edit: From the raptoran, I'm guessing your party is pretty maxed out since as a base race they are nearly as broken as lesser Aasimar/Tiefling so I'd suggest psionics path as the other 2 don't really have a high enough max damage output.

[FMArthur]

The Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium is aimed at fixing some basic Monk problems and is simpler than the Monk as well as having full BAB. It can pounce by ECL 12, which is late, but doesn't matter when you're past that mark. At level 14 it gets the ability to attack any opponent it tumbles through the space of. You could do this to one enemy repeatedly with a single move (with a mounting Tumble DC) if you want, and get an attack each time. So if you plan to give the group level-ups sometime in the future Battle Dancer could be a decent investment.

I'd recommend an Item Familiar and some magic gear to bump up those Tumble checks.

[Treblain]

If he's a raptoran, how about Stormtalon, a dip in Master of Masks (or something else) for claws, and some natural weapon optimization?

[aquaticrna]

Thank everyone so much; this is exactly what i needed! not 100% sure what i'm going to use at the moment but it will probably involve cobbling together several ideas to get the flavor he's looking for!

[Divide by Zero]

Would psionics be too complicated? Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 18 with Tashalatora is effective and straightforward.

[Fitz10019]

By cohort, do you mean via the Leadership feat? So we're talking about an NPC monk with lousy pointbuy and not much starting gear? Melee Monks are very MAD -- it's easier to make a useful archer (or shuriken thrower) under these circumstances.

Take a main character monk, and bard cohort, now that's a different tune.

[Deimess]

Base unarmed damage will be 2d8 + 4 + 1½ x STR bonus

2d8 (SUS + INA (us)) + 4 (WS, GWS) + 1½ x STR bonus (HF)


I don't know a lot about some of those feats, or Raptorans, but how does he do 2d8 with his fists?

[Petrocorus]

barbarian with Improved Unarmed Strike. Lion totem + Versatile Unarmed Strike

You mean lion spiritual totem from complete champ that gives Pounce?



So i have a friend that i'm playing with who isn't big into optimization,... action.
How the abilities are determined? Point-buy?






Hammer Fist
Superior Unarmed Strike
Snap Kick

Ring of Evasion


Where can i find those feats and this item?

[FMArthur]

Hammer Fist is from Races of Faerun. You add 1.5 x your Str to unarmed attacks when you have a free hand and are not using Flurry of Blows (come to think of it, this actually supports the idea that Flurry of Blows is supposed to be the unarmed equivalent to TWF). It specifies that it uses both hands but does not use normal two-handed weapon terminology, so it's up for interpretation whether it works with Power Attack. You also break your pinky fingers. There is a weaker version (one attack only) in the Dragon Compendium as well.

Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick are from Tome of Battle. One gives you a Small Monk's unarmed progression and the other lets you take -2 to attack rolls to make an extra unarmed attack whenever you make an attack.

The Ring of Evasion is in the Dungeon Master's Guide. It's listed in the Rings section as simply Evasion.

[Greenish]

I don't know a lot about some of those feats, or Raptorans, but how does he do 2d8 with his fists?Superior Unarmed Strike and Imp. Unarmed Strike.

[Edit]: SUS gives you a scaling improvement to your unarmed damage, so it's 1d10 on levels… 12-15. Hmm.

[Curmudgeon]

Superior Unarmed Strike and Imp. Unarmed Strike Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike).
Fixed that for you.

The level 12 unarmed damage value of Superior Unarmed Strike is 1d10. Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) boosts that to the next step, 2d8.

[Greenish]

Fixed that for you.

The level 12 unarmed damage value of Superior Unarmed Strike is 1d10. Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) boosts that to the next step, 2d8.Oh yeah, and that "hmm" was because I somehow started thinking it was a level 10 build (since that's the last on the feat list).

Happens when you get distracted while posting.

[Curmudgeon]

Oh yeah, and that "hmm" was because I somehow started thinking it was a level 10 build (since that's the last on the feat list).
I did note that a Fighter 12 has 12 total feats. While I chose feats with a single-minded emphasis on punching things as per the OP's request, I left a couple feats available for the "everything else" category. :smallwink:

[Kurald Galain]

Just to throw something odd out here, how about a Warlock?

All his powers are at-will. Pick Eldritch Glaive to let him attack in melee, and flavor it as gathering Ki in his hands. Pick other powers that match monk-like abilities, such as Spider Climb. It's very easy to play, at least.

[Curmudgeon]

Just to throw something odd out here, how about a Warlock?

All his powers are at-will. Pick Eldritch Glaive to let him attack in melee, and flavor it as gathering Ki in his hands.
How exactly are you going to do that when you're treating it as a big pole with a blade on it? Extreme arm stretching? :smallconfused:

[Hiro Protagonest]

How exactly are you going to do that when you're treating it as a big pole with a blade on it? Extreme arm stretching? :smallconfused:

Quick maneuvering. He moves fast enough it grants him reach (see dancing blade form in the iron heart school).

And the best part is, eldritch blast can be flavored as the Ring The Golden Bell feat in Dragon Compendium.

[FMArthur]

If you really want to do the warlock-monk thing, then Eldritch Claws probably fits better than Eldritch Glaive. If you want more than those two attacks you can take the Beast Strike feat to add your virtual natural weapons to your unarmed attacks. Both are Dragon material, but would be much more appropriate.

Still, even warlocks are not as simple as the OP is asking for. If I'm reading him right anything that draws its actions and abilities as selected from lists of things each with their own detailed description (ie spells, powers, invocations, vestiges, maneuvers, etc.) is not going to be what the players in this game want for this sideshow character. A one-trick-pony is totally okay for a cohort's job, even if your first instinct is to make something interesting.

In fact even outside of this particular consultation thread I would still recommend one-trick-pony cohorts over other things, because Leadership is capable of bringing more power and versatility to the table with a cohort than a PC very easily with certain class choices, and that's a recipe for a less fun game for at least one person at the table.

[holywhippet]

I'd suggest grabbing some cleric levels and going for the sacred fist PrC. It's full BAB on top of caster levels. Just have him buff himself up before battle and he can walk in swinging. Being a caster it's not exactly simple, but you can just give him a simplified spell list to stick with.