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View Full Version : Equivalent of Paimon's Dance of Death, Dervish Dance, or G.Flyby Attack?



HappyBlanket
2011-07-21, 11:39 PM
I'll make this brief. I'm making a character with significant investment in the Scout class, and I'd like to make use of Skirmish's bonus to damage as much as possible. Given that I plan on having high movement speed, I'd specifically like to be able to attack multiple enemies in a single round, while moving.

Paimon's Dance of Death, Dervish Dance, and G.Flyby Attack provide what I'd like to accomplish, but each has it's own set of restrictions. Namely level investment, prereq investment, cool down, limited use, limited mobility, etc. I'd like to know if there are any alternatives that provide the same benefit as these.

Thanks in advance!

edit And woops. This is not the 3.5 forum. Already asked for movement.

Vandicus
2011-07-22, 12:41 AM
I think travel devotion is one.

*EDIT

Didn't read in full, travel devotion only helps a little.

*EDIT2

Spring Attack combined with travel devotion could work.

*EDIT3

And this requires a cleric dip and possibly nightsticks(which some people have problems with) depending on how often you need to do this attack pattern. The worst part IMO is the cleric dip depriving you of the capstone scout class feature.

*EDIT4

Sorry, still doesn't fufill the requirements exactly, since you're limited to one attack.

*EDIT 5(hopefully the last)

The chain including spring attack and going up to rapid blitz will satisfy the requirements I believe. You'd need to multiclass(probably ranger/swift hunter if you want skirmish) to get enough BAB and you'll only get 3 attacks per round, but he can definitely hit multiple foes. Wouldn't be all that useful considering he can't effectively kill each of those foes though.

HappyBlanket
2011-07-22, 12:52 AM
Hehe. Yeah, move, attack, then move isn't really what I'm looking for. More like move-attack-move-attack-move-attack.

As for Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz; that's another way to do it, I suppose. But -10 isn't really something I can accept, so Dervish Dance is still better (and maybe less feat intensive too), even if it does have a /day limit.

Vandicus
2011-07-22, 01:07 AM
Just a note that the -10 from rapid blitz applies only to the third attack, and a -5 applies to the second attack(in other words just like a full attack except limited to the first three attacks, although the -15 BAB attacks miss a lot anyways) rather than all three attacks. However it seems like you're going for TWF so the feat chain is not only overly intensive but would also negate your extra attacks.

Psyren
2011-07-22, 01:10 AM
How many levels of Scout do you need, anyway? You only need 3 levels of Binder to get Paimon, and there are plenty of other benefits besides.

aquaticrna
2011-07-22, 10:34 AM
i'm personally a really big fan of dervish, it's limited to a few times /day but once it's more than about 3 times per day it's not really an issue, and the duration is based on your dance skill points so it lasts a long time, and you get +hit and damage. If there was a way to continue your skirmish progression with that it would be ideal, but i don't know that there is a way to do that... as far as feats go, if you're TWF, i would recommend gloves of the balanced hand. they make it count as though you have TWF or if you already have it imp TWF

kestrel404
2011-07-22, 11:24 AM
The big one that you missed is Pounce. You won't be able to move/attack/move/etc. - it's still just move/attack, but at the end you get a full attack which is very nice.

There are a number of maneuvers (mostly swordsage maneuvers from Setting sun, shadow hand and desert wind disciplines) that let you do this to a lmited extent - some of the higher level maneuvers let you do it to a nearly unlimited extent as well (the level 6 desert wind maneuver Desert Tempest is very nearly identical to dervish dance, while the level 9 setting sun maneuver is significantly better).

Everything of this nature has limitations placed on them. If you want some really good ideas, the current Iron Chef compettition (IC22) is Dervish, so many of the builds there are relavant to this question.

Edit: Oh yes, and shadow pounce. You can find this ability on two different prestige classes (Telflammar Shadowlord from Unapproachable East and something I can't remember from Shining South) - this gets you a full attack after you've used any ability/spell/etc. with the teleport descriptor. It's equally awesome to pounce though it's pretty hard to get it to work properly. However, one of the really nice things about it is that you can make a standard action attack (for example, a standard action maneuver), use a move-action teleport (Shadow Jaunt maneuver or a totem-bound Blink Shirt), and then get a full attack action, all in one turn. And if you've got maneuvers through Warblade, you can use the full-attack action to qualify for the 'making a non-maneuver attack' portion of warblade maneuver recovery, and do exactly the same thing again on the next round. Getting this requires some pretty hefty investments though - you'll need at least a 4 level dip into Telflammar shadowlord (or a 5 level dip into the other class, which I remember being mounted combat based) plus at least a 1 level dip in warblade to pull that particular combo off. Totally worth it, though.

Draz74
2011-07-22, 11:41 AM
There are a number of maneuvers (mostly swordsage maneuvers from Setting sun, shadow hand and desert wind disciplines) that let you do this to a lmited extent - some of the higher level maneuvers let you do it to a nearly unlimited extent as well (the level 6 desert wind maneuver Desert Tempest is very nearly identical to dervish dance, while the level 9 setting sun maneuver is significantly better).

Yeah, if you don't want three Binder levels (and a feat) for Paimon, I was going to suggest you grab the Desert Tempest maneuver. You can do this without losing any Scout levels. You'll need to spend two feats (Martial Study x2, or Martial Study and Martial Stance) for prerequisites, then buy a Scholar Desert Wind Cloak (15k gp).

This only works 1/encounter. Also, there's some controversy about whether item-gained maneuvers still require their normal Initiator Level to use, but Test of Spite, at least, ruled that you don't by RAW. (I'd allow it as a DM. The higher-level Tome of Battle items are pretty expensive, and there is still the 1/encounter limit.)

On the plus side, you'd get to pick up two other nifty Desert Wind tricks at the same time. There are some good ones. Burning Brand, for example, lets you add to your reach for a round.