Imma Firin' Mah Lazer

[zoobob9]

Hey playground.

I've been thinking recently, and long story short: With enough ranks in craft (lenses) and knowledge (optics) one could create a laser. They would need a light source, mirrors, et cetera, along with a ton of time, but it's possible.

This could be used as a weapon without a doubt. The heat energy from a light spell could potentially melt a lock. But the daylight spell would be far more powerful, and travel a lot farther. Are there rules about this that I dont know about? If not, what would you think would be a fair way to deal damage?

In this situation, treat this as a medium two handed weapon. A spell would be cast on a specific peice on the inside, then the light form it would be reflected off of mirrors until it is funnelled into the spyglass like part, which would concentrate it so it would have the power of a laser.

If it were up to me, I'd give a certain amount of damage for every 10 foot radius of bright light (making extend spell the easiest way to make this laser more powerful). The dim light raduis would be tripled, and thats the range of the weapon. The damage would be heat energy and a critical hit doesnt't do more damage, but instead blinds the target.

A full round action could be used to do damage to an object, whether melting metal or setting wood ablaze. This wouldnt be able to target the armor or weapons of a creature who moved on their last turn, and a weapon cant be if it was used the last turn. The melting ability wouldnt be very useful on armor, but destroying paper, locks, et cetera would be useful.

Thoughts? Any aspects I missed? How would you decide the damage of the laser?

[Z3ro]

Um, that's not exactly how lasers work. You need a gain medium to amplify the light. Finding something like helium or neon in a world where fire, earth, air, and water are the base elements might be difficult, nevermind construction.

[Vandicus]

A. Its not exactly a laser you're making
B. The ability to light stuff on fire with a lens is due to heat, which is not an actual component of light(*EDIT the spell, not visible light). The light and daylight spells never state that they actually generate heat, meaning you're only focusing the light

[Ernir]

First, don't mix D&D rules and physics. Unless you're just looking for an argument at the table, in which case, you're probably right on track.
Second, lasers... are a bit more complicated than that. I suggest wikipedia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser)
Third, uh, how about you just get a rod of many wands (CMage) and some wands of Seeking Ray (PHB2) to build a huge "laser"? Or play a Spellwarp Sniper (CScoundrel)? Or just anything that actually uses the rules of the game? :smalltongue:

[herrhauptmann]

You're making something similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtzRAjW6KO0
But if I'm reading you correctly, the light comes from inside. So when it's directed through the lens, it'll collect at one point at Distance X from the end of the lens. If someone is in the way between your laser and that point, you won't get the burning awesomeness.
If someone is farther than X away from your laser, you won't be able to burn them.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Ocular Spell can turn a whole bunch of different spells into eye lasers for +2 adjustment.

[Radar]

(...)
B. The ability to light stuff on fire with a lens is due to heat, which is not an actual component of light. The light and daylight spells never state that they actually generate heat, meaning you're only focusing the light
Visible light heats up objects when absorbed just as much as infrared radiation - energy is energy.

@herrhauptmann
You can make a lens array to calibrate the focal point. It's still easier to just chop the obstacle with an axe. If you want to light distant ships on fire, there are easier ways to achieve that as well.

[HalfDragonCube]

Ocular Spell can turn a whole bunch of different spells into eye lasers for +2 adjustment.

Wrong kind of laser. This is about light beams, not the stuff that Beholders launch (awesome though they may be).

Although, that said, using in-game stuff is much better for lasering.

[zoobob9]

You're making something similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtzRAjW6KO0
But if I'm reading you correctly, the light comes from inside. So when it's directed through the lens, it'll collect at one point at Distance X from the end of the lens. If someone is in the way between your laser and that point, you won't get the burning awesomeness.
If someone is farther than X away from your laser, you won't be able to burn them.

Kind of.
1. Light goes through a convex lens, with the most light/heat energy being at the focal point.
2. A concave lens is placed right at the focal point, straightening out the light into a cylinder.

This is easier to understand graphically, but I'm away from my home computer, so I can't post a picture (long story). This site gave me the inspiration, so you might be able to figure it out yourself.

http://dev.physicslab.org/asp/applets/opticsbench/default.asp

Of course, the lenses would have to be extremely precise, so it would take a very high skill check.

[aquaticrna]

this still doesn't produce a laser, lasers require the light to be coherent, you can't make that happen with lenses alone. All you've done with your lenses is columnate the light.

[noparlpf]

Spell: Lucent Lance.

Problem solved.

[druid91]

Power: Summon weapon.

Weapon chosen? The laser gun in the DM's guide.

Or as your Psywarrior knows it. The "Holy weapon of purifying light"

[Vandicus]

Visible light heats up objects when absorbed just as much as infrared radiation - energy is energy.

@herrhauptmann
You can make a lens array to calibrate the focal point. It's still easier to just chop the obstacle with an axe. If you want to light distant ships on fire, there are easier ways to achieve that as well.


Normally its true that all light carries some amount of heat(with varying ratios which is why some light bulbs generate more heat than others), but the spells only explicitly create illumination.


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Light

[zoobob9]

If you dont want to qualify it as a laser, dont. I'm going to call it the Light-Acumulating Surface-Emilinating Ray or Laser for short. It has lenses. Deal with it.

[noparlpf]

The wavelength and frequency of the light are going to determine the amount of energy transmitted per unit of time, though. Red lasers are significantly weaker than green lasers.

[aquaticrna]

If you dont want to qualify it as a laser, dont. I'm going to call it the Light-Acumulating Surface-Emilinating Ray or Laser for short. It has lenses. Deal with it.

the point is that it isn't going to do what you're wanting, lasers work the way they do because they're coherent, your columnated beam is going to rather rapidly diverge and become useless. So it's the difference between having a death ray of fiery death and having a fancy flashlight of mild warmness.

[Doc Roc]

the point is that it isn't going to do what you're wanting, lasers work the way they do because they're coherent, your columnated beam is going to rather rapidly diverge and become useless. So it's the difference between having a death ray of fiery death and having a fancy flashlight of mild warmness.

This. Coherent emissions are king.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Power: Summon weapon.

Weapon chosen? The laser gun in the DM's guide.

Or as your Psywarrior knows it. The "Holy weapon of purifying light"

Okay, now I want to do that.

[TroubleBrewing]

So it's the difference between having a death ray of fiery death and having a fancy flashlight of mild warmness.

In a Star Wars Saga game I'm running, one of the Jedi broke his lightsaber as part of his backstory.

I'm going to refer to it as his "fancy flashlight of mild warmness" from now on.

[Vandicus]

In a Star Wars Saga game I'm running, one of the Jedi broke his lightsaber as part of his backstory.

I'm going to refer to it as his "fancy flashlight of mild warmness" from now on.

Hope your Jedi isn't much of an optimizer. Force users in the Saga Edition are basically flatout broken compared to any non-Force user, and that's in just the core book. If you get some of the other WoTC supplements, they can walk through walls and all kinds of crazy stuff. I think there's even a way to teleport long distances with an Aing-Tii discipline.


*EDIT

To anyone who's curious, in D&D terms the Jedi is the equivalent of a wizard in a barbarian chassis. Full BAB and high hp mixed with nearly D&D level wizard spells.

[Doc Roc]

Hope your Jedi isn't much of an optimizer. Force users in the Saga Edition are basically flatout broken compared to any non-Force user, and that's in just the core book. If you get some of the other WoTC supplements, they can walk through walls and all kinds of crazy stuff. I think there's even a way to teleport long distances with an Aing-Tii discipline.


*EDIT

To anyone who's curious, in D&D terms the Jedi is the equivalent of a wizard in a barbarian chassis. Full BAB and high hp mixed with nearly D&D level wizard spells.

The plus side is that you tend to see quite a few All Jedi\No Jedi parties.

[Vandicus]

The plus side is that you tend to see quite a few All Jedi\No Jedi parties.

I'm not quite sure that that's a plus, but the end result in my experience has been, as you said, a game where everyone plays Jedi or no one plays a Jedi.

[Doc Roc]

I'm not quite sure that that's a plus, but the end result in my experience has been, as you said, a game where everyone plays Jedi or no one plays a Jedi.

Well, it does lead to the problem arising a bit less often, I meant.

[GoatBoy]

It would call into question how one person accumulated the knowledge equivalent of a society with centuries of peer-reviewed research behind it, in a world where the average person still makes use of horse-drawn carriages and soldiers still fight with bows and arrows. Who brings a sword to a laser fight?

I guess with a high enough skill check, anything is possible, but you might as well be doing an epic bluff check, convincing the monster to hand over its gold and experience, and fall on its own sword.

If you are dead set on using technological, functional non-magic weapons, there's the Gnomish Artificer PrC in Magic of Faerun, I think. Or you could use the existing magic item creation rules to make an unlimited-use wand of scorching ray, and convince the DM to let you double the price so you can say it works in an antimagic field.

You wouldn't be the first to try and re-create modern technology in D&D, so I know it's a tempting concept. But it's really at odds with what the game is supposed to be. You'd be better off designing a whole new set of rules for technological gadgets, or trying another system.

[druid91]

It would call into question how one person accumulated the knowledge equivalent of a society with centuries of peer-reviewed research behind it, in a world where the average person still makes use of horse-drawn carriages and soldiers still fight with bows and arrows. Who brings a sword to a laser fight?

I guess with a high enough skill check, anything is possible, but you might as well be doing an epic bluff check, convincing the monster to hand over its gold and experience, and fall on its own sword.

If you are dead set on using technological, functional non-magic weapons, there's the Gnomish Artificer PrC in Magic of Faerun, I think. Or you could use the existing magic item creation rules to make an unlimited-use wand of scorching ray, and convince the DM to let you double the price so you can say it works in an antimagic field.

You wouldn't be the first to try and re-create modern technology in D&D, so I know it's a tempting concept. But it's really at odds with what the game is supposed to be. You'd be better off designing a whole new set of rules for technological gadgets, or trying another system.

D&D is as much sci-fi as fantasy. Have you heard the Illithids backstory?

[Psyren]

If you dont want to qualify it as a laser, dont. I'm going to call it the Light-Acumulating Surface-Emilinating Ray or Laser for short. It has lenses. Deal with it.

I read this as "I'm going to start a thread about science and then ignore any science playgrounders bring to my attention. Deal with it."

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Wrong kind of laser. This is about light beams, not the stuff that Beholders launch (awesome though they may be).

Although, that said, using in-game stuff is much better for lasering.Oh, come now. It releases "brilliant blasts that shoot out of your eyes" as ray effects. That is about as close to in-game eye lasers as you're ever going to get. If the quibble is that it's not an actual scientific laser, all I have to say is quite literally a wizard did it.

[Radar]

Laser light will diverge as well. White light is more difficult to focus, because of dispersion (light of different frequency is differently refracted). You can still get interesting results with big enough parabolic mirrors. The fixed range is a pain though.


Normally its true that all light carries some amount of heat(with varying ratios which is why some light bulbs generate more heat than others), but the spells only explicitly create illumination.


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Light
Let's make it simple and evident: red, blue or green lasers emit almost only visible light to the point, that they are treated as monochromatic sources. High power lasers can cut steel by evaporating it. Visible light or any other form of electromagnetic radiation can heat up an object if absorbed. See also Herschels experiments with sunlight.

I can't say anything about the workings of a spell, because it's just magic - it doesn't care about physics.