[PF] Eidolon attacks; procedure

[Barstro]

I don't actually play D&D, so there are a lot of basic things that I just don't think I understand.

1) Quadruped L1 gets one attack; Bite.

2) Ignoring the fact that the evolutions don't work this way;
Quadruped L1 with six claws still only gets three attacks because Eidolon max attacks at L1 is three, despite having the extra limbs

3) At L8, Eidolon with four claws gets four claw attacks. But can only get these attacks if a Full Action is taken. Otherwise, only gets one attack.

3a) if a full action is not needed, what is the benefit to "Pounce"?

4) At L10, the BAB is +8. So, all my primary natural attacks (up to five) are at +8.

4a) Or, I can do two attacks with the same weapon at +8 and +3

4b) Or, I can attack with a weapon at +2 (+8-6(TWF)), and four more attacks (if I have the limbs left) at +6 each (8-2(Multiattack)). Those natural attacks will be treated as secondary attacks, even if they are clay (primary) attacks.

4b1) what other penalties are there for those attacks?

5) L20 with 10 arms;
10 natural attacks at +15 each?
or 10 weapon attacks (one main, nine off-hand)
(both of those require Full-Round actions?)

Thank you for any insights and corrections.

[stack]

3. A full attack is necessary to get multiple attacks, whether natural or manufactured. Pounce allows you to full attack at the end of a charge, which makes it wonderful (charge, then claw/claw/bite at full attack bonus at lvl 1). Primary attacks are always at full AB unless you use a manufactured weapon.

4. Manufactured weapons do not count against your natural attack cap, so, if you have the limbs, you can full attack with normal weapons with iteratives and dual wielding like anyone else, then take natural attacks (using different limbs) at -5. Natural attacks never get iteratives. I'm not sure if the TWF penalties would be applied to natural attacks, but I don't think so.

[Larpus]

I'm not very familiar with Natural Weapon rules (as in, haven't actually used them yet), but here goes what I can understand:

1) Yeah, but you do have 3 points in the Evoluton pool so you can buy Claws (feet) or Limbs (arms) and Claws (arms).

2) Yeah, the Eidolon has a limit to how many natural attacks it can make at any given level, so at level1 it makes no difference to have 4 Claws or 6 Claws, since you can only use 3 of them to attack, it doesn't make much sense that its other members just dangle there, but otherwise everyone would pump as many arms and claws as they could and the Eidolon would be a walking blender of death.

3) Yes, it (and anyone else) needs a full attack to be able to make more than one attack, which is exactly why Pounce is so shiny, amazing and sought-after.

4) Cool.

4a) Indeed.

4b) Beeeh, wrong. As I said in 2), it only limits how many natural attacks it can make, weapon attacks are not accounted for, also TWF is not necessary for using both weapon and natural attacks, the rules are pretty simple: whenever you use both any number of weapon attacks and any number of natural attacks, the latter all count as secondary natural attacks. So, you can swing your weapon at +8/+3 as normal and attack with 5 natural attacks at +6 each (multiattack reduces the penalty of secondary natural attacks to -2, not by).

4b1) The only penalty is that if your Eidolon has 4 claws but is using two of them to hold a greatsword, then those two claws cannot make natural attacks as they are occupied.

5) As before, any time you wanna make more than one attack (even TWF), you need a full attack, no buts or ifs. As for the matter at hand, at lvl20 you have a max of 7 natural attacks, so with 10 arms (and 10 claws) you can only make 7 claw attacks at +15 (all primary). Or you can make 3 weapon attacks at +15/+10/+5 and 7 claw attacks at +13 each.

It is possible to make multiple weapon attacks by having multiple arms, you need the feat Multiweapon Fighting, which is the exact same as TWF except for prereqs (this one is 13 Dex and 3+ hands), you have one (and only one) main hand and all others are treated as offhands, so you make the attack at -4/-4. It's not specified, but I believe that by using light weapons in the offhands lower the penalty to -2/-2 just like TWF.

I'm pretty sure I'll be ninja-ed. EDIT: And yes, I sort of was.

[Sylivin]

I don't actually play D&D, so there are a lot of basic things that I just don't think I understand.

1) Quadruped L1 gets one attack; Bite.

2) Ignoring the fact that the evolutions don't work this way;
Quadruped L1 with six claws still only gets three attacks because Eidolon max attacks at L1 is three, despite having the extra limbs

3) At L8, Eidolon with four claws gets four claw attacks. But can only get these attacks if a Full Action is taken. Otherwise, only gets one attack.

3a) if a full action is not needed, what is the benefit to "Pounce"?

4) At L10, the BAB is +8. So, all my primary natural attacks (up to five) are at +8.

4a) Or, I can do two attacks with the same weapon at +8 and +3

4b) Or, I can attack with a weapon at +2 (+8-6(TWF)), and four more attacks (if I have the limbs left) at +6 each (8-2(Multiattack)). Those natural attacks will be treated as secondary attacks, even if they are clay (primary) attacks.

4b1) what other penalties are there for those attacks?

5) L20 with 10 arms;
10 natural attacks at +15 each?
or 10 weapon attacks (one main, nine off-hand)
(both of those require Full-Round actions?)

Thank you for any insights and corrections.

You have a lot going on here sooo...
1) Yep, one attack at level 1 with no further evolutions.
2) Correct, you max out at 3 natural attacks at level 1. Aka: one bite and two claws.
3) Correct, a standard action allows for only 1 attack.
3a) Pounce allows you to charge a creature and get all your attacks as if you did a full attack action. Aka: All four natural attacks.
4) Correct, as long as they are all primary attacks.
4a)Yes, and you get all your natural attacks too, as long as you are not trying to use claws on the hands wielding the weapon you are attacking with.
4b) Armed and natural attacks work like so: Your "weapon" becomes your sole primary attack. It attacks at your BAB (in this case +8/+3), meanwhile all your natural weapons (primary or secondary) turn into secondary attacks, so they become -5 and do +half strength damage.

So to do a little theorycrafting: Assume your level 10 Eidolon is a quadraped with 4 arms and still medium size. He has claws on two feet and two hands and uses the remaining two hands to wield a two handed sword. He has a strength of 10 so we will only get the base attack bonus to attacks but he also has multiattack as well (free bonus feat). Your full attack would look like this: Sword +8 (2d6+1.5x strength) / Sword +3 (2d6+1.5x strength) / Bite: +6 (1d6+.5 str) / Claw +6 (1d4+.5str) / Claw +6 (1d4+.5str) / Claw +6 (1d4+.5str) / Claw +6 (1d4+.5str).

You end up with 7 total attack rolls with 5 being natural weapons and 2 coming from iterative weapon attacks due to a high base attack bonus. The natural weapons are at +6 due to being secondary attack (-5), but Multiattack drops that to -2.

5) If all you have is 10 arms with claws then you have 10 natural attacks. If you have 10 swords then you have 12 weapon attacks. 3 with your main hand (from a high base attack bonus) and the rest are offhand attacks. And as usual, to gain more than one attack you need to make a full attack action or use a special attack like pounce.