Why does no one ever talk about Intelligent Magic Items?

[deuxhero]

They are core, don't require DM fiat anymore than any other use of CWI, so why are they never brought up in optimization?

Are they leadership style obvious cheese? Just plain bad?

[ericgrau]

They are still custom items requiring approval, and the "purpose" section is especially fuzzy. And ego can create conflicts if the item's too strong. I bet most people don't want to bother with them.

As for their power? Hmm, quickened bless the party 3/day for only 2,000 gp? Sign me up. I'll bet they break action economy in general b/c they get their own turn, giving quickened effects far cheaper than normal.

[Cornelius Grim]

I had an intelligent item once. He was cool. They get some abilities that can save you time. It only took my 5 minutes to get all his stats and everything. For optimization, they are not useful. For fun though, if you have the money or time to get one, they can be at least a little bit useful.

[aquaticrna]

there is a player in our party that has 3 intelligent items, two relic maces and a set of full plate. All of them can cast cure mod, the maces each try to demoralize whoever he's attacking every turn. They are like single purpose extra party members, granted they are all LN and all very into justice so there are no ego problems. Also having 9 free action cure mods available means he doesn't go down ever.

tl;dr: they're really good as long as you're all trying for the same thing, they're just one more way to break the action economy

[tyckspoon]

I had an intelligent item once. He was cool. They get some abilities that can save you time. It only took my 5 minutes to get all his stats and everything. For optimization, they are not useful. For fun though, if you have the money or time to get one, they can be at least a little bit useful.

Depends on how you come by your intelligent items, really. If your DM just rolls to see if any random loot happens to be intelligent and goes through the whole random generation chart, it's not likely to be useful, if only because there's a very good chance you'll wind up with an aligned item that nobody in the party can safely use.. and even if it's alignment-compatible, it's purpose and powers might not be of any use to you.

If you can imbue intelligence to another item, however, there's some shenanigans you can pull off mostly related to the item having its own turn and being able to act independently. Giving intelligence to something with a nice command-word function and having it activate it for you is the most basic trick, I think (assuming an intelligent, say, Ring of Invisibility or Blinking can trigger itself for you. It gets a little bit harder to find good items to use this with if it can't turn on buff items, as the item itself is not the wearer.)

[Blue Bandit]

To be honest, I see intelligent items as being incredible rare and powerful. So I don't introduce them until players are at least 15th level, and even then, very rarely at best. I treat artifacts in the same manner. The way I see it, the less you use such objects, the more exciting they become when you do.

[Aharon]

Intelligent legacy items are pretty useful. It's not core, but doesn't suffer from the "special purpose" problem ericgrau brings up, and the custom item problem is lessened because the process for founding a legacy is layed out more clearly.

[big teej]

They are core, don't require DM fiat anymore than any other use of CWI, so why are they never brought up in optimization?

Are they leadership style obvious cheese? Just plain bad?

well, I know I don't use them because I still haven't quiiiite figured out how they work :smalltongue:

which seems wierd to me, because I picked up incarnum and 3.0 psionics very quickly

[Divide by Zero]

No one ever talks about them because they can speak for themselves :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

I would use them mostly in fantasy science fiction where the uses of magic are more fully explored and the technology, mundane and magical, exceeds our own, as an equivalent to AI.
Otherwise, I would make them very rare, associated more with artefact level items rather than your +1 swords.

[comicshorse]

No one ever talks about them because they can speak for themselves :smalltongue:

I couldn't get mine to shut up :smallsmile:

[Vandicus]

I couldn't get mine to shut up :smallsmile:

Ever since my LG paladin was given a Chaotic Evil sword with a tendency to be easily offended that just-wouldn't-stay-missing I've steered clear of any intelligent magic items.

[Thurbane]

The main issue with intelligent magic items is the incredible cost if you want them to have decent cognitive abilities and good special abilities. Under WBL, by the time you can afford a good intelligent item, their abilities have become almost redundant.

[aquaticrna]

there are a few relic intelligent items that aren't too expensive, mostly because they require either a feat and x HD or a spell slot sacrifice to utilize fully

[Psyren]

To be honest, I see intelligent items as being incredible rare and powerful. So I don't introduce them until players are at least 15th level, and even then, very rarely at best. I treat artifacts in the same manner. The way I see it, the less you use such objects, the more exciting they become when you do.

An artifact at low level can drive an entire campaign. Just ask Frodo. :smallwink:

[Delcor]

Well, another thing to note is they are usually evil.

Personal Experience:
We were level 8 or 9 and investigating a pyramid of a snake cult trying to bring back a big evil snake warrior. While in the pyramid, we found the big evil snake warriors sword, which happened to be intelligent. We figured out it was a +3 flaming burst bastard sword with SLAs, which is really powerful for a party of our level. So unable to resist the awesome stats our fighter took it and used it for a while. When we beat up a lesser bad guy and while questioning them, the fighter failed an ego check, and consequently decapitated our hostage.

So we learned our lesson and gave it to a museum back at town for bonus xp.

[navar100]

Because they might be listening.

[Blue Bandit]

An artifact at low level can drive an entire campaign. Just ask Frodo. :smallwink:

But the only reason that particular campaign lasted so long was because the DM railroaded him every step of the way. :smalltongue:

[Midnight_v]

To be honest, I see intelligent items as being incredible rare and powerful. So I don't introduce them until players are at least 15th level, and even then, very rarely at best. I treat artifacts in the same manner. The way I see it, the less you use such objects, the more exciting they become when you do.

In the 3.5 dmg pg. 164 that "less than 1% of magic items have intelligence" its in the srd too. So were looking at 1 in 200 items. Not to bad really when you think of a campaign.
Now while it's interesting to have all these high level intelligent critters about... I'd also be interesting to have a low-level intelligent item. Especially like that +1 Cloak of resistance, that begs to lay over you as you sleep. . . etc.
Other funny stuff could develop. It could even be really sad when you let trade it out for a better (especially non-sentient) item.
Good times.

In response to the op. While its probbaly a once a campaign thing, most people dont' concern themselves with them, they're rare, custom, and the more intelligent the more shennanigans they can potentially pull ... when you come to rely on them.

Venom in D&D terms is a highly intelligent psycho active skin. So it could be cool, could be a pain.

[Ravens_cry]

But the only reason that particular campaign lasted so long was because the DM railroaded him every step of the way. :smalltongue:

The DMPC was also an imperial discomfort in the cloaca.

[Jack_Simth]

The main issue with intelligent magic items is the incredible cost if you want them to have decent cognitive abilities and good special abilities. Under WBL, by the time you can afford a good intelligent item, their abilities have become almost redundant.
Sorta. Adding minimal intelligence to the right item can do wonders, though. Rings of Invisibility, Blinking, and Telekinesis come to mind - almost anything that's at-will or has a reasonable number of per-day uses but takes an action to invoke ... becomes slightly better than quickened for as little as a 2k add-on (minimally intelligent item, with the cheapest possible least power), because the item can activate itself on it's own turn. Even better: It can ready actions. A Ring of Spell Turning that readies actions to activate itself when you'd be subjected to a spell is... very, very valuable. Even a Cape of the Monteback becomes a bit more useful when it can suddenly remove you from danger, interrupting an opponent's blow.

Basically, if you can create custom intelligent items to order, they can get ridiculous.

[Dimers]

I like Ancestral Relic (BoED) and Item Familiar (UA) because, by and large, they let you design your own intelligent item. If it's an item you've been working with for years in a magical world, it's not unreasonable to say that it's developed a personality and extended your overall ability to affect the world around you.

Why don't I talk about them? As others have noted, there's some obvious cheese that many DMs would shoot down regardless of whether it's RAW-legal, and because any intelligent item requires buy-in from the DM. The coolest stuff always does.


Venom in D&D terms is a highly intelligent psycho active skin. So it could be cool, could be a pain.

Ooh, nice reference.

[Thurbane]

Sorta. Adding minimal intelligence to the right item can do wonders, though. Rings of Invisibility, Blinking, and Telekinesis come to mind - almost anything that's at-will or has a reasonable number of per-day uses but takes an action to invoke ... becomes slightly better than quickened for as little as a 2k add-on (minimally intelligent item, with the cheapest possible least power), because the item can activate itself on it's own turn. Even better: It can ready actions. A Ring of Spell Turning that readies actions to activate itself when you'd be subjected to a spell is... very, very valuable. Even a Cape of the Monteback becomes a bit more useful when it can suddenly remove you from danger, interrupting an opponent's blow.
Maybe I've missed it, but does it specify in the rules that an intelligent magic item can activate it's own use activated powers?

[Blue Bandit]

Maybe I've missed it, but does it specify in the rules that an intelligent magic item can activate it's own use activated powers?

Yes. DMG pg 268 says that an intelligent item can activate their own powers without waiting for a command word from their owner.

[Milo v3]

I've actually only just given one intelligent magic item each to two of the members of one of my many games. The thing is they don't know it's sentient.

[rgd20]

Can you Dominate Monster an intelligent Magic Item?

[Milo v3]

If you can then you can alter shape into them if your a warforged.

[Jack_Simth]

Can you Dominate Monster an intelligent Magic Item?
No, but that's because they're treated as constructs, which are immune to anything mind-affecting.

If you can come up with a way to bypass mind-affecting immunity, then yes.

[Bob the DM]

there is a player in our party that has 3 intelligent items, two relic maces and a set of full plate. All of them can cast cure mod, the maces each try to demoralize whoever he's attacking every turn. They are like single purpose extra party members, granted they are all LN and all very into justice so there are no ego problems. Also having 9 free action cure mods available means he doesn't go down ever.

tl;dr: they're really good as long as you're all trying for the same thing, they're just one more way to break the action economy

It says in the section about intelligent items that you can never have more than one and the will actively work against any other intelligent magic items to insure they're the only ones around.

[Jack_Simth]

It says in the section about intelligent items that you can never have more than one and the will actively work against any other intelligent magic items to insure they're the only ones around.
The specific phrasing is: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#itemsAgainstCharacters)
All magic items with personalities desire to play an important role in whatever activity is under way, particularly combat. Such items are rivals of each other, even if they are of the same alignment. No intelligent item wants to share its wielder with others. An intelligent item is aware of the presence of any other intelligent item within 60 feet, and most intelligent items try their best to mislead or distract their host so that she ignores or destroys the rival. Of course, alignment might change this sort of behavior. - which is, to say, intelligent items don't want to share... however, other than that pesky Will save dominance issue, they can't do anything about it. Of course, if you do fail a Will save, you're out the cost of the other item(s).

Of course, if you're custom-building the items for utility effects, the egos will be low... and there's ways to avoid failing Will saves on a 1.

[Steward]

It says in the section about intelligent items that you can never have more than one and the will actively work against any other intelligent magic items to insure they're the only ones around.

what if they go really well together, like a sword and a scabbard who both really, really love the band Phish?

[Necroticplague]

I find intelligent items to be a lot like item familiars: they eend up either completely worthless, or insanely overpowered. Its essentially paying for an extra party member, since intelligent items can also take class levels. The only real intelligent items I've ever used was an animated, flying lantern that served as our parties skillmonkey, especially given the fluff how this only rarely ever had to roll ego.

[Tyndmyr]

They are core, don't require DM fiat anymore than any other use of CWI, so why are they never brought up in optimization?

Are they leadership style obvious cheese? Just plain bad?

They get overlooked a lot because, tbh...they're just not used much. GMs rarely bust them out, and tend to look askance at you creating custom ones. Modules rarely use them, other books very rarely mention them...

But yeah, it's abusable. Any of the custom item creation rules ever made has been fairly abusable.

[Jack_Simth]

But yeah, it's abusable. Any of the custom item creation rules ever made has been fairly abusable.
What's really fun is creating a golem as an intelligent magic item. It's got hit dice and intelligence, so it also gets feats and skill points at no additional charge beyond the 2k for a minimal intelligence. A minimally intelligent Greater Stone Golem markets at 198,000 gp... has a requirement that it must obey, and while it has no class skills, it gets some 90 to 135 skill points to spend (45 to 67.5, after cross-class penalty), with a cross-class cap of 22.5 ... and 15 feats, eight of which can be Epic.

Worthwhile, do you think, for 198,000 gp? What loadout would be good....
1: Armor Proficiency (Light)
3: Armor Proficiency (Medium)
6: Armor Proficiency (Heavy)
9: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)
12: Power Attack
15: Stand Still
18: Improved Toughness
21: Great Strength [Epic]
24: Great Strength [Epic]
27: Great Strength [Epic]
30: Great Strength [Epic]
33: Great Strength [Epic]
36: Great Strength [Epic]
39: Great Strength [Epic]
42: Great Strength [Epic]

?

Edit: Oh yes, and you can make him at around level 14 or 15...

Hmm... only requirement not on the Cleric list is Slow... is there a domain for that? Fabricate would also be helpful for the body... a Cleric with Slow, Transmute Mud to Rock, and Fabricate... can we fit it into one build... and how early...

Edit: Ohh... all of the needed spells are on the Sor/Wiz list. Requires a 14th level caster, but everything can be done with DMG/MM/PHB - Core. Well, until you get to feat selection.

Craft cost would be... 106,000 gp and 7,720 xp; WBL for 14th is ... 150,000. After crafting, enough room left to buy a Ring of Invisibility and stay hidden while the golem does the dirty work. Need to make sure to use Veil on it regularly to appear to be something else so people don't use the "right" spells on it... only issue is the size of the thing... makes adventuring tricky....

Edit: And the stat block for the above would be....
Greater Stone Golem "Rocky"
Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 42d10+82 (313 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 15 (3 squares) (20 without armor)
Armor Class: 35 (-2 Size, -2 Dex, +21 Natural, +8 Armor) Touch 6, flat-footed 35
Base Attack / Grapple: +31/+56
Attack: Slam +46 melee (4d8+17) or Spiked Chain +46 (3d6+25)
Full Attack: Two SLams +46 melee (4d8+17) or Spiked CHain +46/+41/+36/+31 (3d6+25)
Space/Reach: 15/15 (15/30, with Spiked Chain)
Special Attacks: Slow, Bless (3/day: Intelligent Item power)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision, Empathy
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +15
Abilities: Str 45, Dex 7, Con Ø, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10 (mental scores from Intelligent magic item)
Skills: Spot+24.5, Listen+24.5, Spellcraft+24.5
Feats: See above.

?

[ericgrau]

It says in the section about intelligent items that you can never have more than one and the will actively work against any other intelligent magic items to insure they're the only ones around.

For good reason too. As that guy pointed out you can break action economy pretty hard. Even one actually seems a bit overpowered for the cost. I suppose the tradeoff is having to argue with the thing all the time and the limits on power unless you want to be controlled. Still could be a lot of fun if all the PCs get one to keep it fair.

[herrhauptmann]

I find intelligent items to be a lot like item familiars: they eend up either completely worthless, or insanely overpowered. Its essentially paying for an extra party member, since intelligent items can also take class levels. The only real intelligent items I've ever used was an animated, flying lantern that served as our parties skillmonkey, especially given the fluff how this only rarely ever had to roll ego.
Where does it say that intelligent magic items can take levels?


Can you Dominate Monster an intelligent Magic Item?
I'm sure you could custom make a 9th level spell that would work. 'Alter purpose' to give an intelligent magic item a new purpose. If the item does not have a dedicated purpose, it gets a +X to its save, if it fails, you give it a new purpose.
The DC for the save is affected by how wildly you're changing the items purpose. Making a sword dedicated to the death of arcane casters start protecting arcane casters, would be an easier save than taking that sword and have it start protecting divine casters. (Some spells have an if/then clause that affects the save)

[Jack_Simth]

Where does it say that intelligent magic items can take levels?It's a mix of things.

Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can take class levels. Intelligent items have an Intelligence score of at least 10, and are treated as constructs.

[deuxhero]

You can buy magical beasts (mostly ones that can be mounts) by RAW though, and they are never bared because they qualify to take class levels.

[Necroticplague]

You can buy magical beasts (mostly ones that can be mounts) by RAW though, and they are never bared because they qualify to take class levels.

Because they require special checks to get to do anything (those made at a penalty, at that). Also, I don't think you can buy magical beasts, I thought you could only buy animals.

[deuxhero]

Pegasus eggs are worth 2,000 gp each on the open market, while young are worth 3,000 gp per head. Pegasi mature at the same rate as horses. Professional trainers charge 1,000 gp to rear or train a pegasus, which serves a good or neutral master with absolute faithfulness for life.


Yo! 5000 gold for a flying mount with 10/13/13 mental scores.

[Taelas]

Because they require special checks to get to do anything (those made at a penalty, at that). Also, I don't think you can buy magical beasts, I thought you could only buy animals.

Some monsters have notations citing the cost of buying them. You can also buy hippogriffs, for example.

[TOZ]

Because DMs make them do things like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFUBz8l5jQ)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Because DMs make them do things like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFUBz8l5jQ)

When I clicked the link, it said "could not load movie". I think it's broken.

[MrRigger]

Worked for me. And it was amazing. I've never had an intelligent magical item, but I'm going to get one just so it can do that now.

MrRigger

[herrhauptmann]

When I clicked the link, it said "could not load movie". I think it's broken.

Think it was fixed since you posted, but this one is a better idea of what it's showing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuXIjIQmnEU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1YqAvk-yCM&feature=related

[TOZ]

Sorry, Youtube is blocked here, so I had to rely on the Google link. :(

[Hiro Protagonest]

Think it was fixed since you posted, but this one is a better idea of what it's showing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuXIjIQmnEU&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1YqAvk-yCM&feature=related

Guess it just couldn't work for me. Those videos you posted are funny though. XD

Ever since I played Sonic And The Black Knight, I think of Caliburn as a good example of an intelligent item.

[herrhauptmann]

Sorry, Youtube is blocked here, so I had to rely on the Google link. :(

It's the magic weapon Excalibur, from the Anime (and manga) Soul Eater.

[TOZ]

It is indeed. :) Intelligent items can be really cool additions to the party, or REALLY annoying additions.