Dragon Shaman questions

[big teej]

greetings, just a heads up, this thread was originally going to be titled "I hate Dragon Shamans"

anyways.

humor me for a moment and lets assume class fluff is fixed, and classes are in game constructs.

why must you assume this?
simple, because we're discussing my particular game, and we must have a common ground to work from.


so... I've been reading the Dragon Shaman's fluff repeatedly.

and the more I read it.... the more I hate it.

because it essentially boils down to.
"I think dragons are pretty cool.... I think I'll worship one... and this worship shall in turn make me like them"

not "like them" in some metaphysical sense of a standard to aspire to.
physically, litteraly CHANGING to become more like them. breath weapon, claws, scales, WINGS, etc.

and, forgive me for being thick, but... I just don't see anything to support this.

furthermore.

the Dragon Shaman Auras...
WHY!?

the stuff about becoming like a dragon I can stomach, but I just can't fathom where the ability to generate these various auras is coming from.


so my question for you, the playground is...

why does the dragon shaman get these abilities?
what is the reasoning behind this?

tl;dr
assuming class fluff is fixed, and classes are in game constructs, why do dragon shamans have the abilities they do?


PS: forgive me for being thick if it's extremely obvious and I just missed it.... but I just can't find anything

[Tvtyrant]

Belief is everything in D&D; Divine Magic, Psionics, DFA, Dragon Shaman, all based on "belief" or "will." Believing that you gain dragon abilities is the excuse for getting them.

[big teej]

Belief is everything in D&D; Divine Magic, Psionics, DFA, Dragon Shaman, all based on "belief" or "will." Believing that you gain dragon abilities is the excuse for getting them.

I'm afraid that doesn't quite hold water.
by that logic mister mundane fighter over there can "will" or "believe enough" and fly.

[Shadowknight12]

I'm afraid that doesn't quite hold water.
by that logic mister mundane fighter over there can "will" or "believe enough" and fly.

And he takes levels in a class that lets him do so. Presto.

On topic: I'd add a little fluff where the Dragon Shaman makes a pact with the dragon and the dragon gives him powers in exchange for his worship and/or being his little toy.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm afraid that doesn't quite hold water.
by that logic mister mundane fighter over there can "will" or "believe enough" and fly.
They can. They take a level in something based on believing things and have a high enough mental capacity to believe it. The higher their mental stats the more they can believe, and thus the harder for others to disbelieve. A fighter cannot believe strongly in anything, and thus has a low will save.

[big teej]

And he takes levels in a class that lets him do so. Presto.

On topic: I'd add a little fluff where the Dragon Shaman makes a pact with the dragon and the dragon gives him powers in exchange for his worship and/or being his little toy.


They can. They take a level in something based on believing things and have a high enough mental capacity to believe it. The higher their mental stats the more they can believe, and thus the harder for others to disbelieve. A fighter cannot believe strongly in anything, and thus has a low will save.


I think you both may have forgotten to factor in the 2 assumptions we're making for this discussion.

1) class fluff is fixed.
2) classes are in-game constructs.

by the above logic, the moment they take a class in something else, they're no longer a fighter.

they're a fighter that has become a-something-else

[Tvtyrant]

I think you both may have forgotten to factor in the 2 assumptions we're making for this discussion.

1) class fluff is fixed.
2) classes are in-game constructs.

by the above logic, the moment they take a class in something else, they're no longer a fighter.

they're a fighter that has become a-something-else

Right, and that other thing is someone using their belief to do magic. A fighter spends his time working on hitting things with a sword, not willing things into existence. :P And that is those classes fluff; Clerics can believe in causes, Psions believe in themselves, etc. Dragon Shamans believe in dragons, so they get dragon powers.

[Urpriest]

I think you both may have forgotten to factor in the 2 assumptions we're making for this discussion.

1) class fluff is fixed.
2) classes are in-game constructs.

by the above logic, the moment they take a class in something else, they're no longer a fighter.

they're a fighter that has become a-something-else

Yes. Their fluff has changed from fighter to someone who believes in something so hard they can fly. Just like taking a level of Dragon Shaman would change the fighter's fluff to someone who believes in dragons so hard they start becoming one.

You can't both assume classes are in-game constructs, and apply an unrelated sense of what magic is capable of. Magic does what the fluff and class abilities say it does. No more and no less.

[Vandicus]

"By choosing a totem dragon, you partake of a true dragon's power and take on aspects of a particular kind of dragon."

Similar to binding oneself to a demon/devil, a person serves a dragon for power.

[Prime32]

They channel vague "spirity dragonness" into themselves... and it leaks?

[vampire2948]

Well... people can also pray to Bahamut really hard and become a Dragonborn. Why do you find it difficult to think that there might be another process, which, through appropriate dedication and magic, one could become even more like a Dragon if one wished.

[Shadowknight12]

I think you both may have forgotten to factor in the 2 assumptions we're making for this discussion.

1) class fluff is fixed.
2) classes are in-game constructs.

by the above logic, the moment they take a class in something else, they're no longer a fighter.

they're a fighter that has become a-something-else

We're not changing class fluff. We're saying that it's left vague on purpose so that you can customise exactly how they gain their abilities. "Class fluff is fixed" does not mean "cannot fill in the deliberate blanks on my own."

As for the fighter... let us not go there, shall we? There's already a thread for that. If you think that multi-classing doesn't make you a fighter, then I imagine you must have similar problems with dips and the like, so let's leave that aside an focus on the Dragon Shaman.

Remember that the vagueness is there for you to fill in the blanks as you please. My idea of the dragon giving the DS powers is supported by the fixed class fluff.

[mootoall]

See, when I saw "Assume class fluff is fixed," I thought you meant "Assume the class' fluff has been fixed to not be so sucky ..."

[NecroRick]

What is your feeling on Dragonfire Adepts?