What would the LA be of...

[biscuitcrusher]

If there was a special ability:

"May cast every cleric, druid, and wizard spell from the SRD at will as a spell-like ability."

What would the hypothetical LA be? Just a small debate between the DM and me (don't worry, the DM hasn't actually made this--it's all hypothetical).

edit

I'm banking on +30. Lol.

[sonofzeal]

Ugh.

LA totally falls apart at that level. I mean, the higher your LA is, the worse your caster level is, which is going to severely hamper a lot of those effects. You also have all the normal problems of huge LA. You also still only have the same number of actions as everyone else. So you're flexible, and can cast spells all day which is great, but it's not as good as it sounds.

If the campaign is lvl 20+ anyway, I'd say LA 16 covers you. You can't play until your peers are casting 9ths already, and with CL 1 and 1 HD you need all that SLA power just to survive.

[Ravens_cry]

LA -, since it includes epic spells.

[Xtomjames]

If there was a special ability:

"May cast every cleric, druid, and wizard spell from the SRD at will as a spell-like ability."

What would the hypothetical LA be? Just a small debate between the DM and me (don't worry, the DM hasn't actually made this--it's all hypothetical).

edit

I'm banking on +30. Lol.

How about LA of +1...there is only one class that does that out right and it's the Divine Minion class which you can then take Alter Reality with. Bear in mind that to take Alter Reality you'd need a Cha of 29.

[Xanmyral]

Hum... I know! Eight. Yep... Wait... No... Ah! *Tilts ninety degrees to the right.* That's better.

Seriously though, this is the kinda thing that will kill gods, and make Pun-Pun look like a chump. At level one.

[tyckspoon]

LA -, since it includes epic spells.

Assuming you take that as permission to craft new ones and spontaneously cast them as spell-likes; personally, I'd say 'spells' only qualifies the example ones that are preconstructed, which are generally pretty horrible and unlikely to break anything if the rest of the party/opponents you deal with are also Epic... actually, as a spell-like is pretty much the only way most of those spells are even worth considering. If you consider it to let you use the seed system and make up new ones, you may as well just say the ability lets you cast anything you feel like inventing- after all, the rules (such as they are) on researching new non-Epic spells are in the SRD as well.

[ericgrau]

A home-brewed 3 way theurge might be done at ECL 23. Thing is do you mean he can cast every spell there is 1/day or at will, giving him a bazillion spells either way? That could be open to out of combat spell spamming abuse unrelated to casting in combat so it's hard to say... depends how many books you're pulling spells from.

[Groverfield]

Would be unplayable as a player character without some limits, even in an epic setting. Otherwise it could sit in timestop forever, and SLA's don't have EXP costs, so free wishes.

[ericgrau]

Basically what I was thinking. Unlimited abuse? LA -. Basically a theurge? Much less than LA 23, not sure how much less b/c early access to 9th level spells is hard to balance with "I have no hit points". Probably needs some racial HD instead of some of the LA to fix that.

[Ravens_cry]

Basically what I was thinking. Unlimited abuse? LA -. Basically a theurge? Much less than LA 23, not sure how much less b/c early access to 9th level spells is hard to balance with "I have no hit points". Probably needs some racial HD instead of some of the LA to fix that.
Time stop. And my time stop will run out and time stop, and time stop, and time stop. Ever read 'Thief of Time'? Like what they were trying to prevent, but with some git running around causing havoc.

[ericgrau]

That's what the LA - is for. The numerical LA is for the more limited interpretation assuming the race is no better than a theurge, not unlimited abuse.

[HalfDragonCube]

Take Leadership with it and get a bunch of spellthieves. Willing give over stuff, and watch the fireworks.

Of course, this needs you to be a fairly high level to work.

[FMArthur]

I'd be more generous and say 10LA and 25 crappy racial hit dice, like humanoid. It's reasonable that you'd be able to cast those spells as spells slightly before ECL 30 with only minor shenanigans in play. As at-will SLAs, though? I think ECL 35 is most likely to be when things have gotten out of hand enough that the advantage doesn't matter.

[Flickerdart]

Basically "enough LA so that the game is already unplayable by the time you can use this" sounds about right.

[HalfDragonCube]

I'd be more generous and say 10LA and 25 crappy racial hit dice, like humanoid. It's reasonable that you'd be able to cast those spells as spells slightly before ECL 30 with only minor shenanigans in play. As at-will SLAs, though? I think ECL 35 is most likely to be when things have gotten out of hand enough that the advantage doesn't matter.

That opens up Leadership for the legion of spellthieves option I just mentioned. Then again, there are worse things you can do at that level of power.

[ericgrau]

I'd be more generous and say 10LA and 25 crappy racial hit dice, like humanoid. It's reasonable that you'd be able to cast those spells as spells slightly before ECL 30 with only minor shenanigans in play. As at-will SLAs, though? I think ECL 35 is most likely to be when things have gotten out of hand enough that the advantage doesn't matter.
There are too many spells to abuse. At will time stop to mitigate an epic spell by taking forever to craft it. Drawback is aging, but then you become a lich or something. Or do X a thousand times to make a thousand Ys, with or without time stop. I mean 8 hours is 4800 rounds. It doesn't work at any character level.

A reasonable theurge could be done by level 21-23ish with class levels (a custom PrC, only b/c it's 3 way), so I'd peg it at LA 0 23 racial HD tops for any reasonable version of this race. HD could be traded for a lower number of LA; LA 0, 23 racial HD or less is merely the easiest example to figure out.

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... at 35th... the right build could get both Miracle and Time Stop as at-will spell-like abilities ... which gets you the majority of the abuse. So yeah. LA+15, 20 RHD would do it.

[Urpriest]

None.

LA is one of the later steps of monster design. This ability would be rejected much earlier in the design process.

[B1okHead]

We are talking about Wizards of the Coast though.

[ericgrau]

Let's see... at 35th... the right build could get both Miracle and Time Stop as at-will spell-like abilities ... which gets you the majority of the abuse. So yeah. LA+15, 20 RHD would do it.

At will lol. I pity the deity answering the miracles. I smell a smiting. :smalltongue:

[FMArthur]

At will lol. I pity the deity answering the miracles. I smell a smiting. :smalltongue:

At level 35, I guess they could just decide to smite some gods if they don't give up them miracles.

[Flickerdart]

At level 35, I guess they could just decide to smite some gods if they don't give up them miracles.
At level 35, they probably grant miracles to some gods.

[ffone]

It's:

LA UGH

With the whitespace if you're serious, w/o if you're not.