[3.5 Gestalt] War, huh, what is it good for?

[Draxar]

I'm playing in a rather amusing yet still challenging/interesting in terms of battles D&D 3.5 game. The PCs are now 12 level, we're all gestalt (with the ability to take prestige classes on both sides), and we all have a very strong defining concept taken from somewhere.

Mine is essentially War/"Prepare for war". Thus, I am a Warmage 6 / War Weaver 5 /Raumathari Battlemage 1 | Favoured Soul 4 / Ordained Champion 4 / Combat Medic 4.

Whilst that may look strange and have the downsides of being a double caster in Gestalt (not enough time to cast all your spells), it does have real benefits — casting divine buffs and heals through the War Weaver Link, swift action Spiritual Weapon and Flamestrike from Ordained Champion, and in a level or so I'll be able to use 6th level Warmage Spell slots as Heal.

On the Arcane side, battlemage will keep me happy until at least 15, if not 21. But I'm running out of things to do on the divine side. I can take one more level of Combat Medic quite usefully, and after that possibly the last level of Ordained Champion, but then it's back to Favoured Soul if I can't find anything better.

So, I thought I'd come on here and seek suggestions for something better. And if anyone's got any suggestions, for the arcane side, if there's something viable that beats the Battlemage.

Needs to very much fit the "War" theme, needs to work with Charisma casting, shouldn't be too heavily broken or overpowered, but neither should it be super weak. I'd also much rather keep any more caster levels lost down — that combined with the features you get not being that great is why I'm not going for Warpriest.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Well, I heard this guy Edwin say that war is good for absolutely nothing once. I even asked them to say it again to make sure I heard it right. With that in mind, you may want to reconsider your build.

Making the big assumption that you stay with the concept, Contemplative is generic enough to represent any philosophical view or deity worship, including one of a war god's generals on the material plane. A dip could potentially be worthwhile. Going as far as you can could also work. Remember, fighting in a war takes courage and skill, but running a war takes planning and improvisation.

[herrhauptmann]

Abjurant Champion for your Arcane side.
Has a warrior flavor to it, which might/might not be different from a 'War' flavor. And if you do the Luminous Armor spell (warmages are preparation casters right?), you become a very identifiable force on the battlefield. A useful thing for a general, no?

No lost caster levels, 1 feat tax.

[Draxar]

Well, I heard this guy Edwin say that war is good for absolutely nothing once. I even asked them to say it again to make sure I heard it right. With that in mind, you may want to reconsider your build.

It is… too late for me, my child. My path is already set. (i.e. I'm already playing the character)


Making the big assumption that you stay with the concept, Contemplative is generic enough to represent any philosophical view or deity worship, including one of a war god's generals on the material plane. A dip could potentially be worthwhile. Going as far as you can could also work. Remember, fighting in a war takes courage and skill, but running a war takes planning and improvisation.

Mmmm. The main things that have put me off it are that I don't get all the benefits for it, being a Favoured Soul and thus not having Domain slots (I'd have to throw spells known at the spells of it), and the fact that while it can be looked at in a way that fits, it does not itself scream "WAR!"


Abjurant Champion for your Arcane side.
Has a warrior flavor to it, which might/might not be different from a 'War' flavor. And if you do the Luminous Armor spell (warmages are preparation casters right?), you become a very identifiable force on the battlefield. A useful thing for a general, no?

No lost caster levels, 1 feat tax.

Warmages have their own specific list of spells from which they cast spontaneously. This has the problem that I don't have any Abjuration spells on my Arcane side. Got several on the divine, but those don't help me qualify for it.

Don't know what the 'Luminous Armour' spell you're referring to is.

[Kojiro]

Warforged Warblade/Warlock/Warmage/War domain Cleric with War Devotion. Maybe throw in Warrior for good measure.

Edit: Wait, you're already playing your character. Retrain immediately. And get your soul put into a golem's body, stat.

Edit again: Keep War Weaver though. That looks good.

Also I have never done gestalt anything before beyond thinking about it because I couldn't figure out what class combination a character was. Apart from the above jokes, I am useless here.

[Draxar]

Also I have never done gestalt anything before beyond thinking about it because I couldn't figure out what class combination a character was. Apart from the above jokes, I am useless here.

Essentially I'm having healing and some buffing on one hand, blasting on the other, and doing some fun things with using the class features of one side with those of the other.

[herrhauptmann]

Luminous Armor is in Books of Exalted Deeds. It is THE spell to use for an AC bonus. Especially as an abjurant champion.
Any Good, Preparation Spellcaster can cast it, since it's a sanctified spell.

Anyway, you can't use it, so just keep it in mind for your next character.

[Draxar]

Luminous Armor is in Books of Exalted Deeds. It is THE spell to use for an AC bonus. Especially as an abjurant champion.
Any Good, Preparation Spellcaster can cast it, since it's a sanctified spell.

Anyway, you can't use it, so just keep it in mind for your next character.

Heh. My next character, in this game at least, is likely to be a Totemist on one side, and something else on the other. Possibly the Shapeshift druid PrC I've been vaguely working on.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Needs less Warmage, more Warforged, Warlock, and Warrior. I mean, if we're gunning "War," go for broke!:smalltongue:

[Draxar]

Needs less Warmage, more Warforged, Warlock, and Warrior. I mean, if we're gunning "War," go for broke!:smalltongue:

Eh. Warforged would've been nice, but the Charisma penalty really wouldn't work with a pair of Charisma classes, plus my GM specifically banned them as a race choice.

Warlock is actually based on old words for oath breaker, rather than being from the same root as 'War' itself, so it doesn't really fit.

Warrior... no.

[The Glyphstone]

Can you squeeze in any levels of the War Mage prestige class from the Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook? Its spell-failure reduction isn't worthwhile to you, but the +1/2/3 damage bonus per die on damaging spells is amazing for blasting, and the ability to give a few allies your CHA to AC is nice.

[Taelas]

Note for the Dragonlance Warmage prestige class: You count as your own ally (i.e. you can give yourself Cha to AC). Throw in Battle Dancer 1 somewhere, and you get it twice.

[Aergoth]

Suel Arcanamach! Cha-based spell casting *moar ignore spell failiure*, increased DCs to dispel your spells and if I remember warweaver right, you can use Extended Spellstrength on all the party, and you can also beat someone with a stick for Greater Dispelling goodness.

The above is from Complete Arcane.

[Xtomjames]

Are you looking to just get suggestions for this specific character when you say seeking "suggestions for something better", or are you looking for suggestions to replace the character altogether?

If the later, then yes I have a crap load of suggestions. If the former I only have a few.

Former Take metamagic feats and spell focus, choose healing and a single key battle strategy. Use the metamagic feats of Heighten, Maximize and Empower to boost healing spells to their highest possible range. Use the same metamagic feats to boost your offensive spells in various combinations.

Later Dump the Warmage 6 / War Weaver 5 /Raumathari Battlemage 1 this combination isn't very effective actually and you don't get the high level benefits of the Warmage. Favoured Soul 4 / Ordained Champion 4 / Combat Medic 4. is an alright combination but you'd be better off dumping the ordained champion and going with 8 levels of Favoured Soul.

Personally I'd suggest gestalting Warlock with Hellfire Warlock and the Favored Soul and Combat medic instead. The Favored Soul line of the gestalt would get restoration as a spell (taking extra spell would boost the number of spell slots you have) and you can restore your own CON after using the Hellfire with your Eldrtich blast.

On the flipside taking straight warlock here would be good as well as you'd gain the ability to imbue items at level 12.

[Draxar]

Can you squeeze in any levels of the War Mage prestige class from the Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook? Its spell-failure reduction isn't worthwhile to you, but the +1/2/3 damage bonus per die on damaging spells is amazing for blasting, and the ability to give a few allies your CHA to AC is nice.

Ooh, nice one. Might take that fairly soon aye, especially given my Charisma is 26 or so.


Suel Arcanamach! Cha-based spell casting *moar ignore spell failiure*, increased DCs to dispel your spells and if I remember warweaver right, you can use Extended Spellstrength on all the party, and you can also beat someone with a stick for Greater Dispelling goodness.

The above is from Complete Arcane.

However it's its own casting, it doesn't advance what I've already got, which is what I'd rather do.


Are you looking to just get suggestions for this specific character when you say seeking "suggestions for something better", or are you looking for suggestions to replace the character altogether?

If the later, then yes I have a crap load of suggestions. If the former I only have a few.

Former. I'm already playing the character. Essentially, by 'suggestions for something better' I was mostly meaning better then Raumathari Battlemage 1





Later Dump the Warmage 6 / War Weaver 5 /Raumathari Battlemage 1 this combination isn't very effective actually and you don't get the high level benefits of the Warmage. Favoured Soul 4 / Ordained Champion 4 / Combat Medic 4. is an alright combination but you'd be better off dumping the ordained champion and going with 8 levels of Favoured Soul.

Personally I'd suggest gestalting Warlock with Hellfire Warlock and the Favored Soul and Combat medic instead. The Favored Soul line of the gestalt would get restoration as a spell (taking extra spell would boost the number of spell slots you have) and you can restore your own CON after using the Hellfire with your Eldrtich blast.

On the flipside taking straight warlock here would be good as well as you'd gain the ability to imbue items at level 12.

We've already got a hellfire warlock in the party, and as mentioned, I don't see Warlock fitting the war theme in the same way. Also, I quite like the swift cast spells I'm getting from Ordained Champion. So, interesting suggestions, but they don't fit what I want to do.

[Divide by Zero]

Are you trying to use as many "War" classes as possible? If not, then sorcerer does it better (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change;_OR,_Why_You _Should_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead). Plus, y'know, actually having a decent buff selection for War Weaver.

[Draxar]

Amusingly, I've just noticed I can technically use War Mage to advance my Favoured Soul casting, so long as I have arcane casting, the War Mage doesn't have to apply to it.

Now I just need to see if my GM will let the Battlemage's class feature which is essentially 'Eschew materials while holding sword' count in place of the feat.


Are you trying to use as many "War" classes as possible? If not, then sorcerer does it better (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change;_OR,_Why_You _Should_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead). Plus, y'know, actually having a decent buff selection for War Weaver.


… we all have a very strong defining concept taken from somewhere.

Mine is essentially War/"Prepare for war".

…Needs to very much fit the "War" theme,

Yes.

Also, am already playing the character, and maximum optimisation isn't the aim here; I'm doing alright with Warmage.