building human unarmed monk 3.5

[Chrisaigrim]

hello to everyone.i am fun of the 3.5 edition d&d.i need an advice for building perfect human monk without psionic powers..i want you to help me to do good unarmed damage output and and to be a useful character in the team.
and any ideas for very good prestige class that stacks to monks.

my build thought is to take human paragon prestige class and to take major bloodline silver dragon(Unearthed Arcana).any advices are welcome.thank you very much :)

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

How much monk do you want to take? Because if you only want the first two levels for all the goodies that come with them, you can get effective unarmed damage of a level 20th monk with items and feats.

[The Glyphstone]

For that matter, is it important to any degree that you are a Monk, the mechanical class (Base Class with Flurry of Blows, Slow Fall, Dimension Door, and Speaking to Plants) or are you just trying to be a kickass kung-fu warrior?

[pilvento]

Gish it, put some sorcerer or wizard in that build.

Go for Enlightned Fist PrC, or for more dragon flavour there is a monk/sorc PrC in races of the dragon focusing in bloodline powers.

Having spells will give you lots of advantage (grater mighty wallop, mage armor, shield, greater magic fang, heroism, etc etc etc)

[Chrisaigrim]

i don't like any prestige classes or classes that are related to wizard or sorcerer and psion.if possible and full monk but any other prestige classes are welcome.give some builds if possible.you agree 3 level human paragon?but i want full major bloodline silver dragon for the bonuses and stats.i like martial arts playing.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

If you're a warforged you can get yourself a battlefist then go Bear Warrior/Warshaper with greater mighty wallop, so you get yourself Colossial++(+?) damage with nothing but your bear hands.

[Chrisaigrim]

thanx for the fast response.i know that i am ill-mannered but i like human don't like the bear warrior and warshaper as concepts don't express me.and the greater mighty wallop is not approved from my dm as its kinda broken.any other possible builds?thanx

[Urpriest]

Don't use bloodlines. The rules are hard to understand and they either cripple your character or are utterly broken depending on how you interpret them. A new player especially should never use them.

Also, AFAICT you still haven't told us whether you want to specifically be the monk class, or just a martial-arts character who fights with their fists.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

I would recommend, rather than taking levels in Monk, taking levels in the Unarmed Variant Swordsage from the Tome of Battle. It's not a very well spelled out class - it is unclear if it gets Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, for example - but it is probably the best way to go if you want to fight unarmed, as a human, with no spellcasting. Human Paragon could fit with it, though I wonder what you're trying to get out of it, and frankly Unarmed Swordsage 20 is a pretty strong build to begin with. It's got good damage output, decent skills, some utility (from maneuvers and stances), and should be of benefit to your group. And it lets you play the Martial Arts Master archetype while still being an effective character.

[Randomguy]

You could use this monk fix. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122)

A good feat to take for unarmed damage is improved natural attack from the monster manual. It increases your unarmed damage by one category.

You could try the drunken master prestige class, but then you'd be using improvised weapons as often as your unarmed strikes (but they do more damage than your unarmed strikes.) Drinking booze in combat increases your strength or con (your choice) but it decreases your wisdom and int, so it reduces your ac and your stunning fist DC.

There's also the tattooed monk prestige class, which trades the cool monk abilities for other cool monk abilities. (Both it and drunken master are from complete warrior)

Some good feats for raw damage dealing are fiery fist, fists of iron, flying kick and roundabout kick, which all add damage at different times. They also provide a good use for stunning fist if you have a low wisdom score, since there is no DC. (Fists of iron and fiery fist do, anyway.) Rapid stunning and extra stunning could also be useful.

Some good feats to disable your opponents are stunning fist, pain touch, weakening touch and freezing the lifeblood, but those require a pretty high wisdom.

[Soranar]

i don't like any prestige classes or classes that are related to wizard or sorcerer and psion.if possible and full monk but any other prestige classes are welcome.give some builds if possible.you agree 3 level human paragon?but i want full major bloodline silver dragon for the bonuses and stats.i like martial arts playing.

1rst, monk is already a low tier class and you removed your strongest option (tashalatora monk).

2nd, bloodlines are terrible and not worth it for what you get of them. A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features.

Basically you're playing an LA +3 race without the benefits of much better stats and abilities. (there are templates that will cost you as much and give you more , say half-dragon).

Finally, human paragon is a fine class but it progresses caster level during the last 2 levels so I suggest you get a class to progress. With that in mind I'll propose a build without the major bloodline because it nerfs you too much and I can't make it work with it.

Race: Human
Alignment: any Lawful
Templates:none

STATS (32 pts buy)

STR 14
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 8 (dump)
WIS 16 (main stat)
CHA 8 (dump)

2 flaws

1 Monk stunning fist Combat Reflexes , Aberration blood, Aberration reach, Travel Devotion
2 Cleric
3 Human paragon Combat casting
4 Human paragon bonus feat: practiced spellcaster
5 Human paragon Wis +2
6 Cleric Improved natural attack
7 Cleric
8 Sacred Fist
9 Sacred Fist Improved unarmed strike
10 Sacred Fist
11+ Sacred Fist (doubtful you'll reach higher than level 17)

-Inhuman reach makes your unarmed strikes a reach weapon
-Improved natural attack makes you count as 1 category higher for unarmed damage
-Improved unarmed strike adds 4 to your monk level for unarmed damage
-Sacred fist is a divine spellcasting PrC with full BAB and full monk unarmed strike progression

[SillyBee]

I would say its definite that the OP is looking for *MONK* builds, not ways to make a monk better, or leave the monk class, or even builds that are 'like' a monk. I would also point out that given the grammar of the two posts so far, ESL is a near certainty(I hope so anyway:smalleek:).

I would even politely suggest instead of tossing out a bunch of builds that the Playground respond with simple ways to build a monk that have a fun outcome.

@Chrisaigrim:

Given the info you provided so far, I'm assuming you have access to Core and Unearthed Arcana. Can you share with us if you have access to any other sources?

If just those options, there are very few ways to build upon it. Even access to UA doesn't really offer much. Your suggestion for Human Paragon isn't all that great, considering it gives only medium BAB(the same as monk, so no advantage) and also advances a spellcasting class, which you stated you aren't interested in. In regards to the Alternate Class Features for Monk in UA, well, they just aren't any good, as the monk doesn't have the ability to back those feats up with anything. For example, the Overwhelming Attack Variant really needs a full base attack bonus in order to be of any use(which, again, monks don't get).
***EDIT***
And of course I was Swordsage'd

My recommendation:

H-Improved Initiative
1-Stunning Fist, TWF
2-Combat Reflexes
3-Ability Focus(Stunning Strike)
4
5
6-Improved Trip, Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)
7
8
9-Improved TWF
10
11
12-Dodge
13
14
15-Mobility
16
17
18-Spring Attack
19
20

Now this build takes advantage of a monk's mobility. You move in, Stunning Strike. If it lands, stay in combat and use your massive amount of hits to try and deal lots of damage. If the SS doesn't land you keep moving.

That's about the best I can suggest for Core only. If you have access to other books please post and we can offer more assistance.:smallbiggrin:

[Randomguy]

Bloodline levels don't increase your ECL, so basically it's like having to redo level 3, level 6 and level 12. You'll be a lower level than your party for a while, but you'll gain more xp from the encounters.

[Soranar]

Bloodline levels don't increase your ECL, so basically it's like having to redo level 3, level 6 and level 12. You'll be a lower level than your party for a while, but you'll gain more xp from the encounters.

In Essence bloodlines are LA + bought off, but even then you're better off taking a decent template and buying it off than taking a bloodline level.

[Chrisaigrim]

First of all thx a lot for all the posts
to be more specific the concept i want to build is a complete martial art character like a street fighter thats why i choose monk for this
i dont want spells just raw damage and good feats
swordsage might be good for my concept but i know nothing for him.
i also have access for all the books from d&D 3.5

[Urpriest]

Swordsage is a very good martial arts class, and not too tricky to learn. Since you're willing to at least try it out I'd advise taking a look. Swordsages, like the other classes from Tome of Battle, gain maneuvers that let them do martial arts style stunts. The maneuvers come in several schools, of those Setting Sun and Diamond Mind are probably closest to what you want out of a monk, though Tiger Claw has some fun stuff for a brawler-type.

[Flickerdart]

First of all thx a lot for all the posts
to be more specific the concept i want to build is a complete martial art character like a street fighter thats why i choose monk for this
i dont want spells just raw damage and good feats
swordsage might be good for my concept but i know nothing for him.
i also have access for all the books from d&D 3.5
If you want to be a street fighter rather than a martial artist, you might be better off as a Barbarian, jacking up your strength to ridiculous extremes and then punching faces off dudes.

[Greenish]

Now this build takes advantage of a monk's mobility.The what, now? :smallconfused:

[Chrisaigrim]

guys sorry that i confusing you
i am not a pro player but i think that the tome of battle is confusing a little with disciplines stances and maneuvers.
i could even play a fighter with unarmed damage if you tell me it can do massive damage not with claws and bites or something else like aberration reach but a more like fist and kicks like a raw martial artist.

in conclusion i need to play a character with unarmed damage monk or fighter i don't know and no spells, no inhuman reaches, no psion.a simple unarmed damage dealer. :)

[The Glyphstone]

Honestly, most of the good suggestions have been made. What you're asking is sort of like going to a group of car enthusiasts and asking them to help you retrofit your antique Model T Ford so it can win a NASCAR race. The Monk is very weak by itself, and you've disallowed all of the options we have to make it better.

A Monk with a Monk's Belt...that's as good as you're going to get, really.

[Chrisaigrim]

told you i am ill-mannered :).

tell me a fighter or monk or barbarian build and related prestige classes that could do very good damage.i don't have problem of spellcasting on me but i don't want to be a spellcaster simple like that :)

for example monk/fighter barbarian or barbarian/frenzied berserker and something else.
i don't know what to take.firstly i thought monk could fit on me.after many suggest that monk is low tier character.i only know that i want to do unarmed damage.again thanx a lot for your help.

[The Glyphstone]

If you just want to be an unarmed fighter, play a Monk and have fun. If the group you play with is low-op and other low Tiers (or played as such), you won't be useless.

[Username_too_lo]

You looking for a streetfighter? Assuming you're not starting at level 1, May I humbly suggest a couple of levels of the Streetfighter Class from Complete Adventurer?

You get the awesome Stand Tough feature, which lets you turn lethal into non-lethal, and free initiative bumps - and let's face it, you need to go first when fighting high dex low armour characters, which brawlers tend to be.

Or, feeling frisky, you could take a level of Reaping Mauler from Complete Warrior for when you want to just reach out and strangle someone. extra unarmed damage, mobility and grapple onus at lv 1.

[Greenish]

What level are you starting? Level 5+, Fist of the Forest is pretty sweet, but basic barbarian/fighter would work too.

[Chrisaigrim]

im starting at first level

[Greenish]

So, a human brawly brawler:

Start with barbarian, because they gots the brawn. Spirit lion totem (Complete Champion) and Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) (Unearthed Arcana/SRD) get you in the face of your opponents fast, and help you smash 'em to pulp even with your 1d3 fists (since you hit twice, with good Str). Feats go for Improved Unarmed Strike (obviously) and Extra Rage (Complete Warrior).

Second level, you can take another level for barbarian for Uncanny Dodge, or better yet, Imp. Trip via Wolf Totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) (UA/SRD). Alternatively, you can take a level of fighter for a feat of your own choosing.

Third level, you can pick up Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle) and be set for life.


If you have access to Dragon Magazines (namely #310), you could dip into Pugilist fighter variant to get IUS (and slightly better unarmed strike damage) for free. The variant can also pick up Great Fortitude as a bonus feat, which makes entry for Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) much easier.

[Taelas]

I would strongly suggest you reconsider Tome of Battle. It is not a complex system at all -- it is far simpler than the magic system, for example -- and the unarmed Swordsage is what you're looking for.

You do not need in-depth system knowledge to make a strong ToB-character. It is much harder to go wrong with them than it is with the core classes.

[Tvtyrant]

Get Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick from Tomb of Battle so you hit twice on a move action or charge and your fists do more damage earlier. Then take Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strikes) to boost that higher. Take Improved Trip and use your flurries to trip, since they are not going to hit as blows most of the time. Finally, if you are willing to be a Half-Giant you get Powerful Build, which makes your trips act like your large. So, you get two hits that will hit on a move or charge, and a bunch of trip attempts with a fair chance of working on a full attack.

I think this is the best straight Monk can do; with other dips you can get more (Barb for rage and maybe Pounce, Psy Warrior for Expansion, etc) but for straight Monk that is the best IMO.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Unarmed swordsage is a good option for brawler type, as is warblade, though warblade has to pick up improved and superior unarmed strike.

Swordsage: Stone Dragon has Charging Minotaur and Stone Bones, Setting Sun has Mighty Throw to hurl your enemies, Diamond Mind has Moment of Perfect Mind (refluffed to be sheer mental toughness) and Sapphire Nightmare Blade (make your enemy flat-footed), Tiger Claw has Wolf Fang Strike for attacking twice as a standard action (though technically you only have one unarmed strike) and Sudden Leap for getting around.

Warblade: Stone Dragon has the same things as for swordsage, Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw also get you the same stuff. You lose Setting Sun, but you gain Iron Heart, a school focused on physical power. For first level, it has Steel Wind to hit two enemies in one attack and Steely Strike for when you're facing a single opponent.

Really, ToB isn't complex. Just pick the set amount of first level maneuvers and a stance, then ready the maneuvers that are most useful.

[Morithias]

As much as I hate mentioning other classes. You might want to check out the "battledancer" from dragon compendium. It's a decent unarmed class.

[Greenish]

Finally, if you are willing to be a Half-Giant you get Powerful Build, which makes your trips act like your large.Jotunbrud, human-only regional feat from Races of Faerûn has the same effect on combat manoeuvres.

Wolf Berserker (Unapproachable East) adds another +4 (untyped) bonus to your trip checks, and counts as Combat Expertise for Imp. Trip's prerequisite, but given that you need Rage to qualify for that, you've probably picked Imp. Trip from Wolf totem. Still, bonus is a bonus.

[Tvtyrant]

Jotunbrud, human-only regional feat from Races of Faerûn has the same effect on combat manoeuvres.

Wolf Berserker (Unapproachable East) adds another +4 (untyped) bonus to your trip checks, and counts as Combat Expertise for Imp. Trip's prerequisite, but given that you need Rage to qualify for that, you've probably picked Imp. Trip from Wolf totem. Still, bonus is a bonus.

Not too shabby; the Jotunbrud lets him still play a human even. Wolf Berserker with a TLB dip would be amazing for actually getting a use from the flurry of misses, but again requires a dip :(

[Greenish]

Not too shabby; the Jotunbrud lets him still play a human even. Wolf Berserker with a TLB dip would be amazing for actually getting a use from the flurry of misses, but again requires a dip :(You don't need a dip, just stay away from the monk and be a barbarian. :smalltongue:

(I'm led to believe the OP isn't married to the idea of being a Monk by the following comments):


i could even play a fighter with unarmed damage if you tell me it can do massive damage <snip>

in conclusion i need to play a character with unarmed damage monk or fighter <snip>


tell me a fighter or monk or barbarian build and related prestige classes that could do very good damage. <snip>

for example monk/fighter barbarian or barbarian/frenzied berserker and something else.
i don't know what to take.firstly i thought monk could fit on me.after many suggest that monk is low tier character.i only know that i want to do unarmed damage.again thanx a lot for your help.

[Tvtyrant]

You don't need a dip, just stay away from the monk and be a barbarian. :smalltongue:


Then...SUS and a Monk Belt and then flat charger build.

[Prime32]

The monk class is not a streetfighter anyway. Monks teleport, infuse their fists with the power of order, make peoples' hearts explode by poking them, and control their own metabolism so that they become immune to age, poison, and disease. All monks. And despite this, most of these abilities actually suck (either having absurd restrictions or coming far too late). For one thing, they can move fast but they can only flurry while standing still, making their role as a "mobile combatant" rather questionable.

Barbarian is the "smash stuff" class, able to unleash lots of raw damage quickly. The lion totem from Complete Champion gives up your fast movement but grants you the ability to make a full attack when you charge, which is very useful. (there is another barbarian option somewhere else with the same name - don't confuse them)

Swordsages can get behind enemies, throw them around, or hit them in the place their guard is weakest, things like that (though you can also build a swordsage who can shoot fire out of his fists, teleport through shadows, and track enemies by scent). Just make sure you take the Adaptive Style feat from the same book. The best way to keep track of things with a ToB class is to print out the cards on the WotC website.

[Greenish]

Then...SUS and a Monk Belt and then flat charger build.By levels you could afford Monk's Belt, SUS would give equal or greater damage.

As for charger, chances are he doesn't really need that levels of damage. I'd go for Leaping Pounce style myself, since it's fun. Imp. Trip, Imp. Grapple, Knock-Down, Scorpion's Grasp, Pounce.

"My totem animal? The fleshraker."

[Cerlis]

I dont think you are being unreasonable.

A street fighter? Eaaaasy.

Take a few levels of monk, and more levels of the alternate class feature in unarthed arcana for fighter where you get sneak attack instead of bonus feats (and more skills) those levels get you a fighters HP, base attack, you get many bonus feats to start you off from monk levels as well as improved unarmed strike, evasion , monk wisdom and AC bonus (since i think for that alternate fighter you wear lighter armor anyways). get improved Feignt so you can sneak attack every turn even if not flanking.

Witht he monk levels giving you both unarmed strike and increased unarmed damaged that saves you a feat or two, and then take the Feat from Tome of battle that improves your unarmed damage (The maneuver system IS as confusing as the spell system, but doesnt mean you cant take feats from the same book). Not only do you have a base good damage but....


....the main point here is that with sneak attack, if you can do it almost every turn and better more than once per turn, it doesnt matter how strong your weapon is. They might get +5 on their magic weapon but you get + Xd6damage.

FURTHER, Sneak attack represents hitting vulnerable spots of the body. In other words hitting them in the head, neck, kidney ect. Perfect for a street fighter. you might even consider one or two fo the ambush feats in complete scoundrel. such as the one that silences them (throat punch) for more street fighter goodness.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Take a few levels of monk, and more levels of the alternate class feature in unarthed arcana for fighter where you get sneak attack instead of bonus feats (and more skills) those levels get you a fighters HP, base attack, you get many bonus feats to start you off from monk levels as well as improved unarmed strike, evasion , monk wisdom and AC bonus (since i think for that alternate fighter you wear lighter armor anyways). get improved Feignt so you can sneak attack every turn even if not flanking.

The one that gives you extra skills is a separate variant.

[Telonius]

Okay, first piece of advice ... the Monk is a somewhat touchy subject around here, for quite a lot of reasons. Main one being, that the Monk is arguably the weakest class if you're just playing core. There are hundreds of posts made every week (in various threads) that can tell you why. Short version is that without serious optimization, very questionable munchkinry, or taking so few levels in Monk that you might as well not have them in there, you can't really build a powerful Monk in Core.

The good news is that "powerful" here means "powerful compared to what the forum is used to." If you're in a first-time campaign, and the rest of your party is playing poorly-built characters, you have a shot at feeling useful.

Here's a basic Monk build, 1-20, using Core (Players Handbook and Monster Manual) only, that can give you a decent amount of power compared to some other first-time players.

Human Ranger1/Monk9/Horizon Walker10
Ranger1 Endurance (First Level feat), Power Attack (Bonus Human feat)
Ranger1/Monk1 Unarmed Strike (Monk Class feature), Stunning Fist (Bonus Monk feat),
Rgr1/Mnk2 Ability Focus: Stunning Fist (from Monster Manual), Combat Reflexes (Bonus Monk Feat)
Rgr1/Mnk5 Improved Natural Attack (from Monster Manual)
Rgr1/Mnk6 Improved Trip (Bonus Monk Feat)
Rgr1/Mnk8 Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Rgr1/Mnk9 Make sure you have 8 ranks of Know (Geography) by this level
Rgr1/Mnk9/HW2 Deflect Arrows
Rgr1/Mnk9/HW5 Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Rgr1/Mnk9/HW6 Pick the Shifting planar terrain
Rgr1/Mnk9/HW8 Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Dimension Door)

You'll end out the build with a base attack bonus of +17, fairly high saves all around, and the ability to get a Dimension Door to flurry of blows an enemy three times per day. The level of Ranger will make you proficient in all martial weapons, giving you greater versatility (you can use a ranged weapon or a trip weapon if you like), and also give you Know (Geography) on your skill list. That's necessary to qualify for Horizon Walker a few levels early. Give yourself a Monk Belt to push your abilities and unarmed strike damage higher.

Do note that this build is really not that powerful. The most powerful builds involving any actual Monk levels at all, are builds that only have one or two levels of it. (Sacred Fist and Enlightened Fist are probably tops). But if you're in a group where the Wizard thinks the best thing he can do is Fireball, and a Fighter who's taking the Weapon Specialization tree, the power difference won't be as noticeable.

[Tvtyrant]

By levels you could afford Monk's Belt, SUS would give equal or greater damage.

As for charger, chances are he doesn't really need that levels of damage. I'd go for Leaping Pounce style myself, since it's fun. Imp. Trip, Imp. Grapple, Knock-Down, Scorpion's Grasp, Pounce.

"My totem animal? The fleshraker."

Leaping Pounce would work as well, or a jumping charge or whatever. Doing stupid amounts of damage isn't really the goal, its to do around what everyone else is.

Also, my totem animal is a Snorlax.

[Urpriest]

The monk class is not a streetfighter anyway. Monks teleport, infuse their fists with the power of order, make peoples' hearts explode by poking them, and control their own metabolism so that they become immune to age, poison, and disease. All monks.

To be fair, many of the protagonists of the Streetfighter games can go these things as well. It all depends on what you associate with the word streetfighter.