[3.5] Feral lol Druid

[kayden87]

My friend thats going to be playing in the new campaign with me was wondering whats a good way to make a Druid that deals melee damage. Our GM is letting him use the Feral Creature template.

Is the best way juss stick with 20 Druid with the template and keep it simple?

Or is there a PrC that boosts Wild Shape for druids?

( I am aware of the -1 caster level of Feral creature being 1 LA ) - All druid needs to do is despell, our cleric is our main healer.

[Greenish]

Feral isn't a very good template for druids, unless he wants to fight without wildshaping for some reason.

Druid 20 is perfectly solid.

[Divide by Zero]

Feral does give a Wis boost, though, so it's not the worst option.

[kayden87]

why would you fight not in wildshape?

Im reading the Polymorph Spell. It says

The subject gains the Strength, Dexterity,
and Constitution scores of the new
form but retains its own Intelligence,
Wisdom, and Charisma scores. It also gains
all extraordinary special attacks possessed
by the form (such as constrict, improved
grab, and poison) but does not gain the
extraordinary special qualities possessed by
the new form (such as blindsense, fast
healing, regeneration, and scent) or any
supernatural or spell-like abilities.

But a template is the base creature (self), its not abilites that the new form possess

[Greenish]

why would you fight not in wildshape?I wouldn't know, people have the strangest ideas occasionally.

If you'll be sticking to Wild Shape, Feral template basically equals +2 Wis for +1 LA, which is a poor trade.

[Jack_Simth]

Feral isn't a very good template for druids, unless he wants to fight without wildshaping for some reason.

Well, with the Wildshape Errata, which makes it based on Alternate Form, rather than Polymorph, then you keep the Fast Healing and the Darkvision. But yes, you still lose the special attacks.


Druid 20 is perfectly solid.

And then some, yes.

[kayden87]

where can you read up on the errata

[Urpriest]

where can you read up on the errata

For one errata to the PHB, DMG, and MM, www.d20srd.org is very nice, since it's automatically updated to include all errata. Otherwise, go digging on the Wizards of the Coast website, probably with the aid of Google.

Also, if you want to understand what abilities you get from Wild Shape you need to understand how monster stat blocks work. Read the guide in my signature to learn about monsters, and be enlightened.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Current Errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)

Current Wild Shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#wildShape) wording, and Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm).

The Feral template is actually a great choice if he goes with the Shapeshift Druid variant from PH2, which is actually a lot easier to use but a bit weaker than a standard Druid. Maybe combine Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) with Shapeshift Druid, or another option is Druidic Avenger plus Deadly Hunter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid).

[kayden87]

Ahh ok, awesome info, ill read up on it. My friend really wants to be able to rake and pounce and all that, so if there is a way to keep the attacks then its all good.

[Madwand99]

I've played a feral druid, and it was a holy (literally, with Exalted feats) terror. Remember to use Healthful Rest to double fast healing, and read the druid handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0). Use LA buyoff to buy off the +1 LA at third level. The Druidic Avenger substitution is a lot of fun too, for barbarian rage. Multiattack, shock Trooper, Exalted Wild Shape, and of course Natural Spell were all feats I got a lot of mileage out of.

[Gavinfoxx]

How to kick ass with a druid with rake and pounce and such.

Step 1: Be a druid
Step 2: Get to level 5
Step 3: Wild shape into a Fleshraker

That's IT. Of course it gets better the more crazy forms you get and stat out, and the more ways you get to communicate or add armor to your forms or the weirder spells you get to buff yourself. Anyway, by level 8, if you are at all expecting, you know, trouble and aren't just putzing about around town, the druid should really not ever be out of a combat wild shape form of some sort. Ever. And yes there are PLENTY of ways to be able to talk or communicate while in wild shape, and to do stuff that normally requires hands too.

Anyway, the feats you care about with making a wild shape focused druid are:

Dragon Wild Shape (Draconomicon)
Multiattack (Monster Manual)
Improved Natural Attack (Monster Manual)
Exalted Wild Shape (Book of Exalted Deeds)
Frozen Wild Shape (Frostburn)
Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species)
Natural Spell (Players Handbook)

[Divide by Zero]

Ahh ok, awesome info, ill read up on it. My friend really wants to be able to rake and pounce and all that, so if there is a way to keep the attacks then its all good.

1. Wild shape into any animal with rake and pounce.
2. Profit!

No ??? necessary.

[IonDragon]

There are some PRCs that boost wildshape, but as they don't all boost your Druid level, you begin to lag behind in both what you can wildshape into and spellcasting. With some quick google-fu I have found:

Warshaper - C. War: Warshaper gives you some nifty specials like immunity to crits and fast shapeshifting

Master of Many Forms - C. Adv?: Allows you to wildshape into things wildshape doesn't usually work for. I'm AFB so I can't look it up exactly, but generally it's an underpowered option compared to straight Druid.

Nature's Warrior - C. War: Full wildshape progression, some casting progression and a couple of nifty specials

If he is a Dwarf, a good addition to his build would be a couple levels of Deep Warden to add his Con (Mod? Score? I'm not sure you'll have to look it up in Races of Stone) to his AC. With Wildshape, his Con can be pretty freaking huge.

[Gavinfoxx]

There really really really really isn't any reason to take any levels in anything other than Druid. Really. The feats that help wildshape, and the various forms are PLENTY. When you can change into Twelve-Headed Cryohydra, T-Rex, Dire Polar Bear, Grizzly Mastodon, Dire Tortoise, Giant Squid, Legendary Eagle, Giant Dragonhawk, Banded Lizard, Dire Tiger, Pegasus, Unicorn, Legendary Ape, Young Adult Shadow Dragon, Young Adult Song Dragon, Young Adult Steel Dragon, Juvenile Pan Lung, Young Yu Lung, Saguaro Sentinel, Treant, and Ironthorn...

..WITHOUT TAKING A LEVEL IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN DRUID...

Than you are really quite set as far as Wild Shape forms go. Don't you agree?

[IonDragon]

There really really really really isn't any reason to take any levels in anything other than Druid. Really. The feats that help wildshape, and the various forms are PLENTY. When you can change into Twelve-Headed Cryohydra, T-Rex, Dire Polar Bear, Grizzly Mastodon, Dire Tortoise, Giant Squid, Legendary Eagle, Giant Dragonhawk, Banded Lizard, Dire Tiger, Pegasus, Unicorn, Legendary Ape, Young Adult Shadow Dragon, Young Adult Song Dragon, Young Adult Steel Dragon, Juvenile Pan Lung, Young Yu Lung, Saguaro Sentinel, Treant, and Ironthorn...

..WITHOUT TAKING A LEVEL IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN DRUID...

Than you are really quite set as far as Wild Shape forms go. Don't you agree?

Unless at some point Pegasus, Unicorn, Young Adult Shadow Dragon, Young Adult Song Dragon, Young Adult Steel Dragon, Juvenile Pan Lung, Young Yu Lung were all reclassed to Animal, Elemental or Plant, as far as I know you can not Wildshape into them.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Unless at some point Pegasus, Unicorn, Young Adult Shadow Dragon, Young Adult Song Dragon, Young Adult Steel Dragon, Juvenile Pan Lung, Young Yu Lung were all reclassed to Animal, Elemental or Plant, as far as I know you can not Wildshape into them.

There are feats which expand your wild-shape options. Dragon Wild-shape specifically can be taken at level 12.

I'm not sure if it's ever worth it, but if you want to just deal melee damage and aren't too concerned about spellcasting, might goliath or primordial half-giant be alright choices? Given that whole "powerful build is a special quality" thing.

[Wings of Peace]

Take 10 levels of Planar Shepard, choose the Region of Dreams as your special plane, maximize your ranks in the Lucid Dreaming skill, dream up creatures, argue with the DM that if you dream them up with Lucid Dreaming the creatures are native to the Region of Dreams, profit!

[Talya]

Since the Draconic Wildshape feat was covered already....


Unless at some point Pegasus, Unicorn,


Exalted Wild Shape. Also grants Blink Dog, Giant Eagle, Giant Owl, and the Celestial template on all your animal forms. Most importantly, you now gain all (Su) and (Ex) abilities on everything you wildshape into.

[Xtomjames]

I'd say if you want a change up which will give you an interesting bonus to things is go with the Urban Druid from the Dragon Magic book. It gains an urban shape ability instead of wild shape. It reads as follows "Urban Shape (Su): At 5th-level, an urban druid gains the
ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium urban
creature. This ability functions identically to a druid's
wild shape ability, save that the list of forms the urban
druid can take is much more specialized: It is limited to
creatures with the humanoid type or to any non-construct
creatures from her urban companion list (see above).
An urban druid can use this ability more times per
day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. In addition, she
gains the ability to take the shape of a Large creature at
8th level, a Tiny creature at n t h level, and a Huge creature
at 15th level. The new form's Hit Dice can't exceed the
character's urban druid level.
At 12th level, the urban druid becomes able to use
urban shape to change into an object (size based on the
sizes allowed by the urban shape ability), such as a door
or a wagon. The urban druid gains hardness equal to the
material assumed, but the urban druid cannot assume
the form of an object with a hardness of more than 10.
As long as the urban druid is in object form, she has no
means of locomotion or speech, but she retains awareness
of her surroundings as if she were in her natural form.
At 16th level, an urban druid becomes able to use
urban shape to transform into a Small, Medium,
Large, or Huge animated object once per day. These
construct forms are in addition to her normal urban
shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of
urban shape, the urban druid also gains all of the
animated object's extraordinary special attacks and
special qualities, including any defenses gained from
the construct type. Her type changes to construct
for the duration of the animated object form.
At 18th level, an urban druid gains the ability to assume
animated object form twice per day, and at 20th level she
can do so three times per day. At 20th level, she may use
this ability to change into a gargantuan animated object."

On top of this you gain most of what the normal druid has. The specialized urban shape section reads as follows.

ALTERNATIVE URBAN COMPANIONS
An urban druid of sufficiently high level can select
her urban companion from one of the following
lists, applying the indicated adjustment to the
druid's level (in parentheses) for purposes of
determining the companion's characteristics and
special abilities.
4th Level or Higher (Level -3)
Animated object (Medium)
Giant ant (soldier)
Dire bat
Monstrous centipede (Large)
Monstrous scorpion (Medium)
Monstrous spider (Medium)
Snake, viper (Large)
Warhorse, heavy
7th Level or Higher (Level -6)
Animated object (Large)
Carrion crawler
Hammerer (Monster Manual II, page 27)
Otyugh
Monstrous centipede (Huge)
Monstrous scorpion (Large)
Monstrous spider (Large)
Pulverizer (Monster Manual II, page 27)
Snake, viper (Huge)
10th Level or Higher (Level-9)
Animated object (Huge)
Monstrous spider (Huge)
13th Level or Higher (Level-12)
Monstrous centipede (Gargantuan)
Monstrous scorpion (Huge)
16th Level or Higher (Level-15)
Animated object (Gargantuan)
Monstrous spider (Gargantuan)

A combination between the two I would suspect would, at least in most DM's eyes stack the wildshapes/urbanshape levels.

Another option is the Prestige Class "Shaper of Form" from the same book. While it doesn't up your Wild Shape it does give you some interesting abilities and Polymorph as the spell at the max HD as a spell like ability.

Also on the feats front, since I didn't notice anyone say it, assume supernatural ability is a good idea for a druid.

[Talya]

Also on the feats front, since I didn't notice anyone say it, assume supernatural ability is a good idea for a druid.

Only if you don't want to take Exalted Wildshape, which is strictly better as it gives the same and more, if you can meet the alignment requirement.

[Xtomjames]

Well it's not as though you can't take either of them, it is only a suggestion after all. As for better or not...that's an arguable point. Each person has their own opinion as to which offers more.

Edit: Exalted wildshape only grants the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of the wildshaped creature the druid takes the form of. The thing is assume supernatural ability works both directions. A druid who takes a wildshape can assume a supernatural ability of the wildshaped creature or any lost supernatural abilities the druid had prior to wildshaping. With the errata a druid that wildshapes (as per the shapechange rules) loses all of his or her supernatural abilities which are replaced by the wildshape form's abilities~ unless I read wrong.

[Gardener]

Well it's not as though you can't take either of them, it is only a suggestion after all. As for better or not...that's an arguable point. Each person has their own opinion as to which offers more.

Edit: Exalted wildshape only grants the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of the wildshaped creature the druid takes the form of. The thing is assume supernatural ability works both directions. A druid who takes a wildshape can assume a supernatural ability of the wildshaped creature or any lost supernatural abilities the druid had prior to wildshaping. With the errata a druid that wildshapes (as per the shapechange rules) loses all of his or her supernatural abilities which are replaced by the wildshape form's abilities~ unless I read wrong.
Uh, Wild Shape's based on Polymorph, not Shapechange. Alter Self says that you keep any (Su) or (Sp) abilities that don't depend on body parts you don't have (the given examples are no breath weapons in mouthless forms or gaze attacks in eyeless ones), and Polymorph works like Alter Self except as noted and has no notes about losing supernatural abilities. Thus, Wild Shape doesn't make you lose any (Su) abilities you already have. And Exalted Wild Shape lets you apply the Celestial Creature template to anything you would otherwise be able to wildshape into. That means Celestial (insert creature here) is a form granted by Exalted Wild Shape, and you gain all its (Su) abilities.

Shapechange strips away your (Su) abilities because it gives you the (Su) abilities of your new form, and WotC wanted to avoid breaking the game by stacking (Su) abilities from different forms.

[Urpriest]

Uh, Wild Shape's based on Polymorph, not Shapechange. Alter Self says that you keep any (Su) or (Sp) abilities that don't depend on body parts you don't have (the given examples are no breath weapons in mouthless forms or gaze attacks in eyeless ones), and Polymorph works like Alter Self except as noted and has no notes about losing supernatural abilities. Thus, Wild Shape doesn't make you lose any (Su) abilities you already have. And Exalted Wild Shape lets you apply the Celestial Creature template to anything you would otherwise be able to wildshape into. That means Celestial (insert creature here) is a form granted by Exalted Wild Shape, and you gain all its (Su) abilities.

Shapechange strips away your (Su) abilities because it gives you the (Su) abilities of your new form, and WotC wanted to avoid breaking the game by stacking (Su) abilities from different forms.

Wild Shape is based on Alternate Form, read the errata.

[Gavinfoxx]

Unless at some point Pegasus, Unicorn, Young Adult Shadow Dragon, Young Adult Song Dragon, Young Adult Steel Dragon, Juvenile Pan Lung, Young Yu Lung were all reclassed to Animal, Elemental or Plant, as far as I know you can not Wildshape into them.

Uh, I already mentioned the feats needed to do this before I made that post...

[Jack_Simth]

Ahh ok, awesome info, ill read up on it. My friend really wants to be able to rake and pounce and all that, so if there is a way to keep the attacks then its all good.
... you can Rake and Pounce normally with Wildshape, no templates required. Why (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tiger.htm) would (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#deinonychus) you (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#megaraptor) think (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direLion.htm) otherwise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direTiger.htm)?

[DarkestKnight]

As awesome as Wild shaping is, i feel that to go with the whole feral druid, the player could be a Shifter (ebberon and mm3) and take the druid substitution levels for extra shifting per day and eventually go into were-touched master (ebberon) and be obscenely grizzly, especially if he picks bear totem. while i know that this is statistically poorer than going mad wild shaping, its pretty close to the savage druid theme.

Also, dreaming your own monsters? i may have to use that, because that's pretty cool.