Help with a New Character

[bugfoxmaster]

Hey all;

I've been invited to play in an Eberron game using the Pathfinder ruleset, but with most things (pretty much anything we want) from 3.5, and the party sort of determined as a group what should be in the party - I've been more-or-less assigned the Artificer, which as far as I've been told/can tell is an item-crafting BEAST, and very ingrained in the Eberron fluff.

Artificers aren't in Pathfinder, though, and I don't know the weird little details of 3.5 all that well, particularly with this class I've never played before, and scarcely heard of. So, erm... would it be possible for:

A) Someone to explain exactly what an Artificer is, how it works, and how it's fluffed

B) Someone to explain a few good tips on how to build a competent one that can stand up in a fight and be useful - the rest of the party is made up of a fairly heavy-optimizing mindset, from what I can tell, so I'd say anything goes, in terms of cheese, so long as it's not going to get the DM to punch me over the table (no Pun-Pun, infinity tricks, money scams, etc.)

C) Some build possibilities and suggestions for items I'll want to grab soon-ish - we're starting at level 2, but apparently are going to level up to 5 within the first couple sessions.

Thanks, in advance!

[Greenish]

The artificer handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0) is much heavier with fluff than standard, so while not very high-OP, it seems to be what the doctor ordered.

[Edit]: Also, playing an artificer is a "money scam". :smalltongue:

[bugfoxmaster]

The artificer handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0) is much heavier with fluff than standard, so while not very high-OP, it seems to be what the doctor ordered.

[Edit]: Also, playing an artificer is a "money scam". :smalltongue:

Hmm, I'll take a look at this, though from a quick skim it looks like I might want any other information people might have...

And money scam? How so?

[Urpriest]

Hmm, I'll take a look at this, though from a quick skim it looks like I might want any other information people might have...

And money scam? How so?

Mostly in that you're paying half price for items. But since you're using Pathfinder, item crafting is different, and that has weird implications for the Artificer. I'd ask your DM how he plans to handle that before you proceed. (Basically, Artificers get to mitigate the XP cost of items...but in Pathfinder, items don't cost XP).

[bugfoxmaster]

Mostly in that you're paying half price for items. But since you're using Pathfinder, item crafting is different, and that has weird implications for the Artificer. I'd ask your DM how he plans to handle that before you proceed. (Basically, Artificers get to mitigate the XP cost of items...but in Pathfinder, items don't cost XP).

Call me crazy, but don't you already pay half-price for items with the item-crafting feats - thus it's not so much a scam as just what you'd be doing anyways if you took the feats?

And apparently he's planning on just removing the XP requirement, as in the Pathfinder rules, along with the Craft Reserve and Retain Essence abilities of the Artificer class. He's compensating the Artificer by giving him "Wand Mastery" for free, a feat that apparently lets the Artificer use his own INT bonus instead of the wand-in-question's.

Given those changes, any suggestions?

[gorfnab]

Artificers aren't in Pathfinder
Yes they are, just not as good as the Eberron version though. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer)

[bugfoxmaster]

Yes they are, just not as good as the Eberron version though. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer)

...That's a 3rd Party source. I don't really think it counts.

[Divide by Zero]

I've been more-or-less assigned the Artificer

I'd be a little worried about this. Any group that tries to force you into a role, especially one that isn't considered "essential" such as a crafter, seems a little questionable to me.

[bugfoxmaster]

I'd be a little worried about this. Any group that tries to force you into a role, especially one that isn't considered "essential" such as a crafter, seems a little questionable to me.

Let me put it this way. The DM is an old friend of mine who had a group of three so far, and really wanted 4. Two of the players I know well - one is a good friend and my roommate, and was in the game from the start (and knew I used to play a lot of 3.5, so he invited me in), and the other two I don't know as well.

The group so far is a kalashtar soulknife, a hobgoblin cavalier (I don't know either), and a cleric of the silver flame. They wanted some sort of spellcaster-thing, and I when I mentioned I'd played a lot of wizards and sorcerors, and didn't really want to go back to that, they mentioned artificer. I told them I knew about as much about those as I did about African click languages, so they gave me a briefing, and said it'd be a good choice, since it could do the arcane **** with wands and scrolls, and could craft really well to boot.

I don't mind playing the artificer, especially since it seems setting-relevant, but am mainly looking for some advice as to what to do with this. The handbook seems fairly useful, but if anyone has any other little tips or tricks, I'd greatly appreciate them...

[Urpriest]

Call me crazy, but don't you already pay half-price for items with the item-crafting feats - thus it's not so much a scam as just what you'd be doing anyways if you took the feats?

And apparently he's planning on just removing the XP requirement, as in the Pathfinder rules, along with the Craft Reserve and Retain Essence abilities of the Artificer class. He's compensating the Artificer by giving him "Wand Mastery" for free, a feat that apparently lets the Artificer use his own INT bonus instead of the wand-in-question's.

Given those changes, any suggestions?

You do already pay half-price, but you normally also have an XP cost, so you're avoiding that "half" of the price. But yeah, in Pathfinder this means nothing.

That's not a horrible trade. While people make a big deal about the artificer's cheaper crafting, they have a lot of other powerful abilities. Wand Mastery has nothing to do with your Int, though, it raises the DC and Caster Level of any wand you use by two. It's in Eberron Campaign Setting. Unless Pathfinder has another feat of the same name.

Starting at level 2 you won't be very good with wands for a while, and you won't even have access to them for quite a bit. Before then, use scrolls for the occasional emergency trick (Alter Self is a very versatile spell for this, though IIRC Pathfinder nerfed it), and focus on using a weapon. Your ability to enchant your own weapons temporarily with an infusion means you can slap Bane against whatever creature type you're fighting given a few minutes prep time (or less if you spend an action point). As you level up you'll probably eventually want to start focusing on Wand use, since that seems to be where your DM wants you to go anyway. Artificers can spend extra charges from wands to add metamagic, starting at 7th level. Take a few metamagic feats and add them to blasty wands like Orb of Fire and you can get some very impressive damage. Other metamagic like Persistent Spell for buffs becomes useful much earlier too.

[bugfoxmaster]

You do already pay half-price, but you normally also have an XP cost, so you're avoiding that "half" of the price. But yeah, in Pathfinder this means nothing.

That's not a horrible trade. While people make a big deal about the artificer's cheaper crafting, they have a lot of other powerful abilities. Wand Mastery has nothing to do with your Int, though, it raises the DC and Caster Level of any wand you use by two. It's in Eberron Campaign Setting. Unless Pathfinder has another feat of the same name.

Starting at level 2 you won't be very good with wands for a while, and you won't even have access to them for quite a bit. Before then, use scrolls for the occasional emergency trick (Alter Self is a very versatile spell for this, though IIRC Pathfinder nerfed it), and focus on using a weapon. Your ability to enchant your own weapons temporarily with an infusion means you can slap Bane against whatever creature type you're fighting given a few minutes prep time (or less if you spend an action point). As you level up you'll probably eventually want to start focusing on Wand use, since that seems to be where your DM wants you to go anyway. Artificers can spend extra charges from wands to add metamagic, starting at 7th level. Take a few metamagic feats and add them to blasty wands like Orb of Fire and you can get some very impressive damage. Other metamagic like Persistent Spell for buffs becomes useful much earlier too.

I guess at later levels, things like "TwinEmpowerMaxRepeatFell Drain Admixture Whatever + Orb spell or Fireball" will be my main damage source, then? Or whatever mix of Metamagic I can get a hold of, I dunno if you can only use one effect with Metamagic trigger or if you can actually go ahead and put multiple effects on the same use. If only one, I guess I should stick to quicken, so I can get an extra shot off... And yes, there's apparently a feat that does the caster's casting stat for spell trigger items in PF

And until then weapon with the Weapon Augmentation infusion for Bane. Seems like a good way to get easy damage early on. Alter Self isn't as good any more, but you can still get +2 Strength pretty much for free off of it.

Good, good, anything else?

[Madcrafter]

Whether you can use more than one metamagic on a wand at a time is open for debate, if your game only allows one per shot, it limits your power a fair bit. The way it is written in the ECS allows you to throw on as many as you like, but people will argue that that was an oversight and the ability was intended to be more like metamagic spell completion and the infusion, which allow only one. Ask your DM (or don't if you want it one way or the other).

It is also important to know that, with one minute of prep time, the artificer can cast any 1-4th level spell in the game, by virtue of the Spell Storing Item infusion. This can be easily abused with classes and prestige classes that have spell lists that put powerful spells at low levels, most noticeable the trapsmith and runescarred beserker, although its still an amazing ability even if you don't use those lists.

As for the rest, as stated above, at low levels load up on some scrolls of useful spells (mostly those that are more utility or don't allow saves, eg. Obscuring Mist, Vigour, etc) and rip people apart with your bane crossbow (spending the action point and 1 full round at the beginning of the fight is worth it). Mid levels, tear people a new one with your supercharged wands, and move up to staves when you get up to the higher levels (see if your DM interprets UMD checks to set the DC for staves, if so pump that skill and go to town).

Artificer power can be curbed by good DM oversight (and curbed they should be, especially with a party comp like yours, it would not be hard to outdo all of them), mainly by restricting access to one of the components required for making items, be it time, XP, gold or location. If you find one to be in short supply, the Artisan feats from the ECS can help make up for the lack.

One last thing is do your bookwork. Hunt around for the best spells, items, etc that you can in the books allowed, and keep a record (in your mind or on paper) about what and where they are. Artificers require a good knowledge of the system to play well, but they can do anything with the right know how.