Two-Weapon Rogue

[TonyTron]

I'm about to play a Rogue wielding two daggers and wanted clarification on the action cost.

My DM has told me that the Two-Weapon Fighting feat gives me a third attack... That is to say, to attack with with my daggers takes a full action, just like attacking twice with a single weapon, but I get an additional attack a result of the feat.

So, I can never take a move action and attack with both my daggers?
Seems like I should just use a single better weapon...

[Zaq]

I'm about to play a Rogue wielding two daggers and wanted clarification on the action cost.

My DM has told me that the Two-Weapon Fighting feat gives me a third attack... That is to say, to attack with with my daggers takes a full action, just like attacking twice with a single weapon, but I get an additional attack a result of the feat.

So, I can never take a move action and attack with both my daggers?
Seems like I should just use a single better weapon...

Welcome to one of the first obstacles 3.5 put in the way of melee having nice things.

If you can, dip a level of Barbarian and take the Spirit Lion Totem ACF from Complete Champion. It gives you Pounce, which lets you charge and make a full attack. (Fluff it however you want. Your Rogue doesn't have to know that he's a Barbarian.)

[ericgrau]

Well at least you don't get the -2 penalty when you move and attack once.

While popular TWF is dangerous for a rogue. Your attack bonus is already low enough, you're very fragile in melee, later on splitting half your gold on each weapon makes each one a little weaker than a weapon from someone who only uses one, etc. It all adds up. I'd suggest using a buckler until you get a reliable source of protection, such as greater invisibility or a ring of blinking. You'll deal more damage per fight because, besides the other TWF drawbacks mentioned, your fragile self will be standing longer.

Also there's not much point to wielding daggers unless you intend to throw them. Grab quick draw so you can full attack on the first round via throwing, and switch into melee next round. Otherwise you might want short swords or a rapier.

[Vandicus]

Yeah, you only get extra attacks while full round attacking. As an above poster suggested, pouncing can help to counter that. If you're focusing on damage, I'd recommend the Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel and taking levels in Swashbuckler to increase your BAB.

[herrhauptmann]

My DM has told me that the Two-Weapon Fighting feat gives me a third attack... That is to say, to attack with with my daggers takes a full action, just like attacking twice with a single weapon, but I get an additional attack a result of the feat.


*Person without TWF and a BAB of 6/1 wants to make a full attack.
Main Hand: 0/-5, Off Hand: -4. Apply TWF penalties of -6/-10 for main and off hand.

*Person with TWF and a BAB of 6/1 wants to make a full attack (same weapons).
Main Hand: 2/-3. Off Hand: 2 The TWF penalties consist of -4/-4.
The feat Two Weapon fighting doesn't grant an extra attack, it just makes the third attack have an actual chance of hitting.

*Person with Bab of 6/1, and Improved TWF:
Main Hand: 2/-3. Off Hand: 2/-3
With ITWF, you get an SECOND attack with your off hand. With GTWF, you get a THIRD attack with your offhand.

I'd highly recommend taking the feat "Craven." Each time you get a sneak attack, it adds 1 point of damage for each HD you have.
So your 10th level rogue with 5d6 sneak attack, can instead get a sneak attack of 5d6+10. And that 1point/HD can be multiplied on a crit. It's in Champions of Ruin.

[Hiro Protagonest]

*Person without TWF and a BAB of 6/1 wants to make a full attack.
Main Hand: 0/-5, Off Hand: -4. Apply TWF penalties of -6/-10 for main and off hand.

*Person with TWF and a BAB of 6/1 wants to make a full attack (same weapons).
Main Hand: 2/-3. Off Hand: 2 The TWF penalties consist of -4/-4.
The feat Two Weapon fighting doesn't grant an extra attack, it just makes the third attack have an actual chance of hitting.

*Person with Bab of 6/1, and Improved TWF:
Main Hand: 2/-3. Off Hand: 2/-3
With ITWF, you get an SECOND attack with your off hand. With GTWF, you get a THIRD attack with your offhand.

I'd highly recommend taking the feat "Craven." Each time you get a sneak attack, it adds 1 point of damage for each HD you have.
So your 10th level rogue with 5d6 sneak attack, can instead get a sneak attack of 5d6+10. And that 1point/HD can be multiplied on a crit. It's in Champions of Ruin.

If you use a light weapon in your off-hand, the penalties are reduced by 2.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, question. Do you want to be strength focused? Do you want to take any classes other than rogue? Do you want to be dex focused?

If you dip a class with martial weapon proficiency and are strength focused rather than dex focused, you can two weapon fight with a greatsword (1.5x strength!) and spiked armor. Just saying, it's an option.

[herrhauptmann]

If you use a light weapon in your off-hand, the penalties are reduced by 2.

Oh I know, but I didn't want to get into that part.
Anybody using TWF should really get to know and love the chart that lists TWF penalties in their various weapon iterations. Just in case it becomes a issue.


On that note, you can hold two weapons (or 1 double weapon)and NOT use TWF, avoiding the penalties entirely.
Example: Someone with a Bab of 11/6/1 holding a sword and a dagger.
Full attack routine could consist of Sword at +11, Dagger at +6, Dagger at +1.
Why would you do this?
You're not sure if your cold iron longsword, or alchemical silver dagger is the weapon to hurt a particular fiend. And don't want to waste an entire turn attacking with the wrong weapon in order to find out.
Perhaps you're not sure if it's piercing or slashing damage you need to deal to the creature to hurt it. (Gelly C needs slashing, other oozes split in two when hit with slashing)
Or both of your weapons hand out different status effects that don't stack with themselves. Perhaps sudden stunning on your sword, and a fear effect on your dagger.

[Socratov]

I don't know if this was ilelgal or hosueruled, bu twhen I made my twf dread pirate, I got while attacking as a standard action my offhand weapon, when I would want iterative attacks i neede dto get the feats and attack as a full attack round. And In my opinion, this sounds logical, why wouldn't you be able to put to daggers into someone's body at the same time? Sure it gets harder (hence the penalty) but nothing (imho) prevents you from attacking with main and offhand at the same time.

[Greenish]

nothing (imho) prevents you from attacking with main and offhand at the same time.Except for the rules. Well, attacking with both weapons as a standard action is pretty common houserule.

[darksolitaire]

Except for the rules. Well, attacking with both weapons as a standard action is pretty common houserule.

IMO that houserule weakens Dual Strike feat from Complete Adventurer too much.

[Hiro Protagonest]

IMO that houserule weakens Dual Strike feat from Complete Adventurer too much.

IMO dual strike is just stupid feat tax in a style that already has feat tax.

[Gavinfoxx]

All this talk about feat tax and stuff gets to a very important, salient point:

The books REALLY REALLY don't like make fighting with two weapons *easy*. In fact, they make doing it viably ridiculously, obscenely, infuriatingly hard, for no sane reason. Which is why one should consider carefully when going down the road of something the game rules have a hate-on for.