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Thess
2011-07-24, 02:04 PM
Long time lurker first time poster here.

I play RPG’s with one of the worse groups of anti-players imaginable. I’ve participated in more incidences of bad role-playing, egregious rule abuse, blatant manipulation, abuse of the GM’s largess, and player grudging than I can remember. In ten years, I don’t think we’ve ever actually completed the objective of any campaign; in fact, most games end up in a TPK caused by an interparty fire fight. Others have ended when the players managed to break the GM’s spirit and he quit in frustration – actually, I think that was my game.

The worse part is that we are all older gamers in our late 30’s and early 40’s. Most of us have professional careers (lawyer, nurse, educator) and are in theory responsible members of society. Yet, included in this group is a power gaming munchkin who specializes in destroying games by building characters twice as powerful as anyone else, and then bullying the other players. Another player is a narcissist who monopolizes the GM’s time in order to make the story all about him. He builds a combat character, takes the party leader slot, and then demands the other players play his entourage. If they don’t he accuses them of bad role-playing or finds an excuse to pvp them in-game, but only if they are weaker than him. Narcissists can’t stand losing. A third player is so impulsive he manages to get himself killed about once every twelve hours of play time. He also gets (justifiably) angry at the two aforementioned players but can never do anything about it because he’s too busy dying. Another player is homicidal and revels in creating situations in which he “must” kill another player’s character.

Now you’re probably going to ask me why I’ve stayed with this group and the simple answer is “I don’t know”. It’s probably a type of battered wife syndrome. Every new campaign I say to myself “this time it’ll be better. They’ve finally learned their lesson after they’ve destroyed the last game”. I’m always disappointed and usually murdered. The truth is, I like most of the people in the group and do manage to have fun, but I’d have so much more if the players dropped their destructive habits. Also, two of the GM’s are very good and it’s incredibly difficult to find a decent group of mature role players with acceptable personal hygiene in my geographical area.

So, this is the gaming group I’ve played with for the last ten years. It’s pretty sad and I’m embarrassed to say I have participated in some of the shenanigans. I posted this here because it’s one of the more mature boards. My question for this forum is actually not what should I do, because I know these guys aren't going to change, but rather how do I find a better group to game with?

Mastikator
2011-07-24, 02:10 PM
I don't know any elegant way to get out of the group. The only way I've seen others is either 1) move out of town or 2) say everytime in advance you can't make it and eventually people will stop asking.

As for finding groups, I personally used the internet to find my group. Facebook is something you might use. Or Giant in the Playground forums could also work.

ko_sct
2011-07-24, 02:26 PM
I don't know about dropping a group but I just wanted to say that if you do enjoy playing whit them a little, you might want to consider playing a game of Paranoia, it sound right up their alley.

Techsmart
2011-07-24, 02:35 PM
I don't think you said anything about this, but Have you brought this up with them, saying that it makes the game frustrating? If you have, then I would just tell them that you are no longer having fun and you are done playing. If they are decent people (or your friends), then they will either respect your decision or try to fix their in-game issues. If they get mad at you about it, then they really have more problems than you can fix by yourself.

As for finding a new group. No game stores nearby? That's a quick way. I know a lot of colleges have big dnd groups, but a 30+ year old walking around looking for dnd groups may be a little weird. If you are in the Georgia area, I know groups that look for people. Online roleplaying groups are going to be the easiest to get into though.

Captain Six
2011-07-24, 02:38 PM
Everyone role-plays for different reasons. Anyone reasonable should understand that player priorities might not always match up even in great groups. Just about any one sentence from your post could be cited as a lone excuse to leave. Even something vague, "I prefer different genres / quest priorities / assumed player dynamics / light-hearted escapism / non-pvp / role-playing styles / high-fantasy low-fantasy balance / anything else." It doesn't even have to be strictly true. Those who sympathize or have similar complaints will know exactly what you're saying and anyone who doesn't care wont.

Engine
2011-07-24, 02:38 PM
If you really want to leave the group, you could just say that. Explain why you're leaving, without being aggressive or unkind.
Just say that gaming with them is not fun anymore, you know them all too well and so you find quite repetitive roleplaying with them. You simply know what they will do, how they will react and so on. Tell them that you want to try other groups, you want to play with others. It's not them, it's you. You had fun playing with them, you thank them for the good time you had with them but it's time for you to pack your stuff and leave in the sunset.

If you have trouble finding groups in your area you could try online games so your geographical position isn't a problem anymore.

Othniel Edden
2011-07-24, 02:40 PM
"I'm not having fun anymore, " and then decline future participation. If they ask why, tell them honestly and without malice. Seriously gaming is about having fun, and if you aren't you shouldn't stick around for the abuse.

EDIT: Swordsage'd

Blazen
2011-07-24, 02:44 PM
Talk it over with them. If you have, or if their behavior isn't changing simply tell them you don't want to play anymore. Most people should be able to handle someone leaving a group.
As for finding a new group, I would recommend using meetup.com. It worked pretty well for me. You could also use WotC's store finder on their site to find a store that runs games.

Othniel Edden
2011-07-24, 02:50 PM
I believe there also rules for setting up local games through the forums somewhere around here. Don't quote me on that.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-24, 02:52 PM
I believe there also rules for setting up local games through the forums somewhere around here. Don't quote me on that.

I've seen a couple threads in the recruitment forum titled "looking for RL group in [location]".

Xefas
2011-07-24, 02:57 PM
If I was in your situation, I would've jumped ship a long time ago. But, part of me would be morbidly fascinated in playing a game of Poison'd (http://theunstore.com/index.php/unstore/game/3) with your group.

It's a game in which you can't optimize/min-max/munchkin/powergame/etc, as raising any stat lowers others, and all stats are about equally useful. You can make a character who is strong in different areas than another character, but not plain stronger.

And, most of all, the game is about bullying, insulting, murdering, betraying, manipulating, and being as big an ass as possible to everyone else. You have a friend who likes adultery? Guess what? You get bonus dice for committing adultery. You get even more if your adultery has been "prolonged, repeated, excessive, and unremorseful". Same for murder, blasphemy, and less savory things.

The game is all about telling the story of unrepentant bastards doing terrible things and eventually dying sad, violent, pitiable deaths. It's only $7. It takes about 10 minutes to teach the system. This might be your only chance to play a session with your group where they stay on-task.

Thess
2011-07-24, 02:59 PM
I don't think you said anything about this, but Have you brought this up with them, saying that it makes the game frustrating?

I have. When I do I'm players get mad because I'm causing "drama". I also get the ubiquitous "if you don't like it, just leave" from a couple of players. I've thought about making an ultimatum, but honestly that would result in me leaving in a huff and ending relationships I'd rather keep.

it's probably best to politely let them know that I like them as people but I'm not having fun and then quit the group. Truth is that once I do that I'm probably out of role-playing for good, since it is so hard to find groups around here and because I'd rather play with people my own age.

Othniel Edden
2011-07-24, 03:01 PM
There is always play by post. A good deal of people around here are quite mature as players, and you'll never have to have that moment of "but he's 20 years younger than me" because you'll never know.:smalltongue:

Knaight
2011-07-24, 03:06 PM
It's probably best to politely let them know that I like them as people but I'm not having fun and then quit the group. Truth is that once I do that I'm probably out of role-playing for good, since it is so hard to find groups around here and because I'd rather play with people my own age.

Do so. No roleplaying is better than awful roleplaying, and there are always internet groups. I personally recommend Skype, where you could find people all of your own age, or all people over a certain age that are reasonably mature, which seems to be a lot less connected to age than it by rights should be.

Cristo Meyers
2011-07-24, 03:14 PM
it's probably best to politely let them know that I like them as people but I'm not having fun and then quit the group. Truth is that once I do that I'm probably out of role-playing for good, since it is so hard to find groups around here and because I'd rather play with people my own age.

I hate to be the one to say this, but it's probably just best to bite the bullet and get out of RPG-ing for a while. The time away from the game will give you some room to actually think about why you want to keep playing, or even if. You might even find that you don't actually miss it.

Marillion
2011-07-24, 03:23 PM
There is always play by post. A good deal of people around here are quite mature as players, and you'll never have to have that moment of "but he's 20 years younger than me" because you'll never know.:smalltongue:

Yeah, my GM had a moment like that the other day.

"The last time I went to a strip club, you were eleven!"
"Actually, I was ten."
"YOU WERE TEN!"

I'm 21 now. :smalltongue:

As far as OP, though, I wouldn't give up on roleplaying for good. I can understand wanting to play with people your own age, but the group I'm in now has players from 21 to 34, and while there's quite a bit of silliness, overall we're a pretty mature group. Obviously, I can't make you play with younger people, but it would be a shame if you were to quit something you enjoyed without giving it a shot, in my opinion. :smallsmile:

Thess
2011-07-24, 03:23 PM
If I was in your situation, I would've jumped ship a long time ago. But, part of me would be morbidly fascinated in playing a game of Poison'd (http://theunstore.com/index.php/unstore/game/3) with your group.

Let me give you an example of how we play. It’s a long story, but bear with me. In one D&D campaign, the party was tasked to find an important artifact in a large dungeon. On the way we managed to almost wipe on a random encounter. Some bad rolls and our usual poor planning and inability to work together were about to end the campaign when a very powerful red dragon showed up, killed the baddies and saved the party. Of course being evil he only saved us to make an offer we couldn’t refuse. In return for his benevolence, he would take a large share of our treasure upon our exit from the dungeon. Nice save by the DM.

After several weeks of successful adventure we reached the end of our quest. We found some nice stuff, like a scroll of many spells, including teleport. At that point, we realized we had an important decision to make: should we honor our deal with the dragon or use the scroll?

So, after we teleported out of the dungeon and completed the quest, we were sent off on another series of adventures during which two of our group fell into a trap that that sent them to the Astral Plane. There, they were captured and enslaved by the Githyanki who, if you know your D&D lore, are allied with lots of – you guessed it – red dragons. Sure enough, our old friend was there and promptly purchased two forlorn and now very regretful party members. The dragon decided to let one of the players go and hold the other hostage for a large ransom. Unfortunately for the dragon, he let the player who was the best friend of the party leader go.

Now, if the group decided not to pay the ransom or rescue the character, the player could have rolled a new character and continued playing. But that’s not how we roll. Instead the player hostage was told the party would rescue him as soon as we finished our current mission. So he sat around for a week while the rest of us played, waiting for rescue.

Then instead of saving our friend, the party leader decided that we weren’t quite high enough level and that completing a couple of side missions would give us the experience we needed to affect a successful rescue. Meanwhile, another three weeks went by while this poor SOB sat around watching television while the rest of us played D&D. After four weeks (24 hours of play) of finding excuses to delay the rescue, someone mentioned a little too loudly how great it was to split the XP by four instead of five. A complaint was made to the DM and we were told that we really should rescue our friend.

A flurry of e-mails was sent that week between players and it was decided that we would in fact fight the dragon, but we would have to stop off at our home base and prepare. Our “home base” was a town we’d previously rescued then basically took for ourselves. In a display of benevolence, the party leader informed the hostage player that he wouldn’t have to show up next game night. You see, we wouldn’t get to him until the following week since we had to “prepare” by finishing up a couple of side quests first.

Oddly enough, the slighted player graciously acknowledged his kindness without complaint. The next game night we began by journeying homeward. We made good time, and were about a day’s ride away when we noticed something odd. A strange plume of black smoke was wafting upwards from where our town should have been. Terrified that some of our property had been destroyed, we raced home. There, our worse fears were realized – our newly built luxury estate had been razed to the ground. As he ran forward to try and salvage anything of value, the party leader accidentally stepped on one of the half charred bodies littering the road. An old man, his blackened body writhing in terrible pain, spoke three words with his last breath.

“He seeks Vengeance.”

At that point the hostage player presented himself to the group. He’d been hiding in the guest room awaiting his cue. He smiled as the DM described how a small black dot in the sky grew larger until it became the silhouette of a furious player riding atop an angry red dragon.

I wish I could say that a certain group of role-players learned a valuable lesson that night about not ruining another player’s fun for their own amusement - about not being selfish insufferable jerks and laughing about it. But alas, I cannot because a certain party leader (who happens to be a police sergeant in real life) decided to throw a hissy fit. He threatened the dragon riding former hostage that “he’d never play with this group again” if he wiped the party and then called him all sorts of names. Sadly, it worked. The dragon rider gave in, betrayed the dragon and joined back with the group. With his help, we (barely) won the fight.

As a final insult to this poor player, the group then had him tried and executed for his part in the massacre of the poor villagers - NPC’s the party leader hadn’t seemed to notice until they became a convenient in-game excuse to grief another player. Our dragon riding friend ended up having to create a new character anyways because certain members of the group were mad when their stuff got burned up.

Yup, these are the guys I game with.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-24, 03:34 PM
Leave. Now. You said you wanted to play with people your age. The guy who was kept hostage then burned down the town sounded like an angry five year old who had gotten his hands on a storage of grenades.

Codenpeg
2011-07-24, 03:38 PM
Leave. Now. You said you wanted to play with people your age. The guy who was kept hostage then burned down the town sounded like an angry five year old who had gotten his hands on a storage of grenades.

Because not actually going to rescue your "buddy" was an action of worthwhile friends?

Hiro Protagonest
2011-07-24, 03:40 PM
Because not actually going to rescue your "buddy" was an action of worthwhile friends?

That too. Both the party leader and the hostage player were at fault.

Codenpeg
2011-07-24, 03:43 PM
That too. Both the party leader and the hostage player were at fault.

At least he didn't slit their throats in their sleep? PVP annoys me sometimes, particularly if its one sided. You're supposed to be relying on each other for support for loot, glory, and xp not fighting each other for stupid reasons. But I guess some people play to grief.

Anyways what someone said above, try Paranoia or other systems that are MADE for PvP, maybe you'd have some fun then?

Not only does Paranoia love some PvP but you take care of your power gamer at the same time!

Knaight
2011-07-24, 03:44 PM
Just about everybody was at fault, possibly excepting the guy who was cut out of the game for a month. At the very least, the GM should have introduced a temporary character up until the rescue attempt, and when the group abandoned the rescue attempt introducing the character as a hostile NPC was a good idea. That story is an indication that basically everything is wrong somehow, and playing with that group is a terrible idea.

Thess
2011-07-24, 04:24 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I’m going to throw down the gauntlet and tell them in a polite way how I feel, even though that might cause problems. If it ends badly at least I can say I tried.

Starbuck_II
2011-07-24, 04:43 PM
Then instead of saving our friend, the party leader decided that we weren’t quite high enough level and that completing a couple of side missions would give us the experience we needed to affect a successful rescue. Meanwhile, another three weeks went by while this poor SOB sat around watching television while the rest of us played D&D. After four weeks (24 hours of play) of finding excuses to delay the rescue, someone mentioned a little too loudly how great it was to split the XP by four instead of five. A complaint was made to the DM and we were told that we really should rescue our friend.

See, the DM should have let him play an NPC hireling that party hired (not as good but better than watching TV when he could play).

NikitaDarkstar
2011-07-24, 04:52 PM
Really if you've tried talking to them and they prefer to call you names over even considering that you might have a point and they basically told you "if you don't like it, leave." well just leave. You've told them you don't like it, they've told you they're not going to change, so really there shouldn't be an issue with just saying "While I like you guys as people our play styles don't quite mesh so I'm going to look for a group that fits my style better."

As for finding groups, as people have pointed out online options really are pretty good. It's easy to find groups (well easier), geography doesn't matter much you can only judge people by maturity, not age which would probably suit you quite well. (Really does it matter if a player is a teenager if he's far more mature than his age would indicate? Just as it doesn't matter if someone is +40 if they act like a whiney 5 year old.)

Anderlith
2011-07-24, 04:58 PM
Use a smokebomb & a trapdoor.:smallbiggrin:

But in all seriousness. Just tell them that you have issues & be nice about it, pretend you are breaking up with a girlfriend/boyfriend.

The Glyphstone
2011-07-24, 05:46 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I’m going to throw down the gauntlet and tell them in a polite way how I feel, even though that might cause problems. If it ends badly at least I can say I tried.

Didn't you already try that?

Jay R
2011-07-24, 06:22 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I’m going to throw down the gauntlet and tell them in a polite way how I feel, even though that might cause problems. If it ends badly at least I can say I tried.

Actually, I recommend that you just stop going, saying "It's not that fun any more" if anybody asks. Giving advice to people who don't want it serves no useful purpose. It will only make them think you're causing more "drama".

And don't guess whether this means you will stop role-playing. When you leave a girlfriend, you have no idea if and when the next girlfriend will show up. The same applies here.

Just move on, with no regrets.

Bovine Colonel
2011-07-24, 07:02 PM
:smalleek:

:eek:

I would tell my group exactly why I'm leaving, then leave.

Wait, no, better idea.

I would link them to this thread, then leave, not caring what they say/do.

super dark33
2011-07-24, 07:06 PM
Go to a next meeting. tell what you think and then leave.

Tyndmyr
2011-07-24, 07:30 PM
So, this is the gaming group I’ve played with for the last ten years. It’s pretty sad and I’m embarrassed to say I have participated in some of the shenanigans. I posted this here because it’s one of the more mature boards. My question for this forum is actually not what should I do, because I know these guys aren't going to change, but rather how do I find a better group to game with?

Well, you're doing something about it now, and that's what matters. You're certainly not the first person to stick with a bad group for a while in hope of improvement.

1. You can play the schedule conflict card. It's not my style, since it's not the quickest or cleanest of breaks, but it's popular in many circles because it's non-confrontational. Start missing a lot, complain about other things impinging on your time, and eventually stop coming altogether.

2. Politely, regretfully inform them that you can no longer attend. Don't get into the details why, but make a clean break of it. Probably the best way.

3. My way. Burn the bridges, then nuke the ashes. Bluntly inform them that you don't enjoy playing with them. Feel free to give reasons why. Leave and never return. I assure you, while you might worry about doing so the first time, it's really quite refreshing, and hey, you never know...perhaps it might be a wake up call to others about their anti-social behavior.


Note that it's a lot easier if you don't have to deal with them in other contexts, but hell, I've still used option #3 with people I work with.

WarKitty
2011-07-24, 09:02 PM
3. My way. Burn the bridges, then nuke the ashes. Bluntly inform them that you don't enjoy playing with them. Feel free to give reasons why. Leave and never return. I assure you, while you might worry about doing so the first time, it's really quite refreshing, and hey, you never know...perhaps it might be a wake up call to others about their anti-social behavior.

This can be done without actually burning bridges. I have people that I think are perfectly fine individuals but that I don't want to game with because I don't like their style. That's all that needs to be presented here - "I'm not particularly enjoying this style of play for reasons x, y, and z."

LibraryOgre
2011-07-24, 10:13 PM
Anyone else hear Paul Simon?

There must be 50 ways to leave your lover...

Seriously, though, the best way to leave a group is to find something else to do. Whenever they usually play, find something else to occupy your time. Say "Hey, guys, I just remembered I've gotta X on Friday nights. Run this one without me, huh?"

Believe me, I can understand. My best friend from high school is in a Pathfinder game. I've played under the DM before, though, and knew I didn't like it much, so I just stepped out. Found something else to do. Catch up with him at occasional lunches, will probably set up my Hackmaster demo so he can take part... but ain't going back to the table with that DM, because I don't like his style and I don't like the game.

Crossblade
2011-07-24, 11:27 PM
Question: Is the Police Sargent/'party leader' the same person that says "You're creating drama"?

If yes, there may be one person more at fault than others...


Alternatively, allow me to suggest a possible rule addition: No PvP.

Aside from that; also sounds like poor DM skills, slow down exp gain and play at lower levels for longer, so the party can learn fundamentals like team work and relying on each other more. Core only, too; at least then low level casters will be reined in better.

Sebastrd
2011-07-25, 01:07 PM
Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I’m going to throw down the gauntlet and tell them in a polite way how I feel, even though that might cause problems. If it ends badly at least I can say I tried.

Where exactly is your "geographical area"?

Severus
2011-07-25, 01:29 PM
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
No need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop of the key, Lee
And get yourself free.

Jay R
2011-07-25, 03:24 PM
I admit that I don't see any likely value in telling them and leaving.

If you expect them to listen to you and change, then there's no point in leaving, just when the game might get good. If you don't expect expect them to listen and change, telling them has no purpose except to annoy people and/or to feel smug.

Either tell them and stay, or leave without telling them.

WarKitty
2011-07-25, 04:09 PM
I admit that I don't see any likely value in telling them and leaving.

If you expect them to listen to you and change, then there's no point in leaving, just when the game might get good. If you don't expect expect them to listen and change, telling them has no purpose except to annoy people and/or to feel smug.

Either tell them and stay, or leave without telling them.

Personally, I think not telling them and leaving has pretty high potential to cause more trouble down the road. What happens the first time one of these people finds out that you've joined a different group or you were out at the movies on game night? Plus if you leave without telling them, you're basically leaving it free for whatever conclusions they're going to reach. Give them at least a basic explanation.

0Megabyte
2011-07-25, 04:19 PM
You know, you could always just go "hey, guys? I've gotten busy with stuff, and I don't really feel like putting out the time commitment to play this game anymore. Things might change later, but I have to quit. Sorry. Take care." If you don't want to bring up problems, just use this white lie. If they somehow catch you playing with othera in the future, just tell them you felt like playing again, but wanted to try a different game, no offense intended. And don't get into an argument about it, leave it at that.

Mystral
2011-07-25, 05:42 PM
At that point the hostage player presented himself to the group. He’d been hiding in the guest room awaiting his cue. He smiled as the DM described how a small black dot in the sky grew larger until it became the silhouette of a furious player riding atop an angry red dragon.


That sounds awesome. I'll pull that if my players leave an NPC they ought to rescue in the hands of a villain to long.

Thess
2011-07-25, 07:42 PM
That sounds awesome. I'll pull that if my players leave an NPC they ought to rescue in the hands of a villain to long.

If nothing else I have some great stories from this group. If you edit out the part about the hissy fit, it's a good morality tale about not taking advantage of your friends, sort of like something you'd read in Knights of the Dinner Table.

The look on their faces when they saw who was riding that dragon was priceless.

Draxar
2011-07-25, 08:19 PM
If nothing else I have some great stories from this group. If you edit out the part about the hissy fit, it's a good morality tale about not taking advantage of your friends, sort of like something you'd read in Knights of the Dinner Table.

The look on their faces when they saw who was riding that dragon was priceless.

To me, one of the biggest questions is this: Do you want to carry on socialising with them outside the game? If not, or if it's just generally unlikely, then you can be rather blunter than if keeping on good terms with them all is a priority.

Quietus
2011-07-25, 08:22 PM
If nothing else I have some great stories from this group. If you edit out the part about the hissy fit, it's a good morality tale about not taking advantage of your friends, sort of like something you'd read in Knights of the Dinner Table.

The look on their faces when they saw who was riding that dragon was priceless.

That dragon story sounds fantastic, actually. I think that having the player sit out for three weeks was remarkably poor, but coming back in a blaze of pissed off glory, his will broken by his supposed "friends" abandoning him, and embracing the alliance offered by the red dragon, seems a suitable way to remind PC's that their actions have consequences.

This all being said - I do think that approaching this as an adult is the best way to do it. It seems you've been doing so, but giving in to their own childish behavior. All it takes is saying "Guys, I'm sorry, but I need to play with a different group for a while, I'd like to try a different style of gaming". Avoiding conflict, but standing up for your own right to enjoy your relaxation time, is entirely reasonable. It will bring drama, though.

Also, I'll echo the sentiment that you should drop by the "Finding Players (Recruitment)" section of the forum. This is where I found my own current group - in fact, if you happen to be in Toronto or the area, then shoot me a PM.

Traab
2011-07-25, 09:02 PM
Also, two of the GM’s are very good and it’s incredibly difficult to find a decent group of mature role players with acceptable personal hygiene in my geographical area.


Ok, sounds to me then like you have a total of three people who might be willing to go find replacements, counting yourself. It would at least give you a solid starting point, you could either try to join someone elses group, or try to find a replacement or two and tell the narcissist, homicidal, and munchkin to go elsewhere for their game breaking fun. Nicely of course, since you like these people apparently, just not enough to continue playing with them.

Almaseti
2011-07-25, 10:04 PM
I think being evasive about your reasons for leaving isn't the best plan. I would say you should just tell them you aren't having fun and would rather do something else. Explain why if they ask, but make it as "it's not you, it's me" as possible.

Also, if there are apparently two good GMs in the area, the three of you are a good start to a group.

Maybe you can introduce a friend or two to the game? Newbie isn't a dirty word. Then you'd have a good start to a group. Maaaaaybe one of the old group could be peer pressured into acting like an adult if the games don't conflict, but you want to be careful about that. You'd want to keep those kinds of players away from newbies if you don't want them to be scared off or infected with munchkin-ery.

Or just start a game of Paranoia with your jerk group, and they can be a jerky as they want.

Gamgee
2011-07-26, 12:36 AM
Fade out, just vanish from existence. Be eternally gone, unexist. To them.

Simple, they'll stop caring eventually. Be like a ghost.

Katana_Geldar
2011-07-26, 12:38 AM
Or just start a game of Paranoia with your jerk group, and they can be a jerky as they want.

I like this.

motionmatrix
2011-07-26, 01:20 PM
I know how you feel, I have a group that (most likely most of us) are practically fanatical about gaming. Me included, although in the past 5 years I have learned that there are in fact other things beyond computers and dice (watch where the fire you are throwing my way lands).

I have been with them for the better part of 12 years. The main dm, who is an amazing dm, is also the worst player. I really mean the worst player. So bad that he knows the reputation he carries.

9 times out of 10 he will play a paladin, and a really LAWFUL STUPID one. Totally annoying, messing up the games and getting us constantly killed or in fights we don't want to be a part of.

So when we play now, if he is a paladin, I play a rogue. I always take first watch when we sleep, and he never wakes up. I coup-de-grace him everytime, but only after he has forced his will upon the group and the group is forced to do his bidding to stop a real life conflict from arising.

I got yelled at about it by the only player that is aware of the situation, that I was killing the paladin's fun. I replied that he has done the same for over a decade to all of us, always forcing us the way he wants (and it is the way he wants; he could play something that did not place a restriction on the whole group), and I was not willing to take it anymore. He has not played a paladin in 2 games now because the last 3 were murdered in his sleep.

Playing a paladin is making decisions for the group without the groups consent (in our case anyways).

It sounds like your self appointed party leader is very much like this; he may not be a paladin necessarily but he arbitrarily places his will on you guys.

You have two options: you metagame and confront his character (directly, indirectly, sneaky, whatever) before he takes over, as you know he will already.

The other option is to, either very angry or completely emotionless (my choice is the latter) to tell them you do not wish to play with them, because you are sick of the power trip of player X and Y, that the game is a group game, not a one person and entourage game, and you cannot stand when they do something like they did to that poor player that waited for over a month to play.

Mostly because you do not feel like waiting for them to do it to you as well.