What Level is Hercule (Mr. Satan)?

[AtlanteanTroll]

And what class I suppose. Hercule is viewed as incredibly weak in the DB(Z) universe, being easily out classed by Pan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu. However, he is the strongest normal man on the planet.

So, let's look at his achievements:

1. Reigning World Martial Arts Champion (a title fairly and legitimately won pre-series).
2. Survives being tossed around and beaten by the likes of Trunks, Perfect Cell, Bojack, Android 18, and Kid Buu.
3. Using high-speed-movement.
4. Surviving the series as a whole without ever actually dying while still being present at many events (through luck or otherwise).

So ... Yeah. :smallredface:

[hamishspence]

Depends on the system.

In D20 Modern, generic NPCs tend to top out at 10th level- beyond that they're usually special characters.

However it's been argued that "real" human abilities should max out at 6th level.

[The Glyphstone]

Level, or Power Level?

[Prime32]

1. Reigning World Martial Arts Champion (a title fairly and legitimately won pre-series).
2. Survives being tossed around and beaten by the likes of Trunks, Perfect Cell, Bojack, Android 18, and Kid Buu.
3. Using high-speed-movement.
4. Surviving the series as a whole without ever actually dying while still being present at many events (through luck or otherwise).2 and 4 are just Rule of Funny.

1 means that he's a very good martial artist by real-world standards. Most of the superhuman people had stopped competing by that point.

3 is hard to judge, since in DBZ the stronger you are the slower other people appear (hence weak characters have a hard time even being able to see high-level fights).


If you mean "level in an RPG", then in D&D 3.5 I'd make him a level 6 character (maybe lv7)... if fighting was all he did. Since he's so good at making people love him, I'd give him double the levels in a class with half the fighting ability (expert?), and focus on maxing out his Bluff and Diplomacy.

[supermonkeyjoe]

I'd say level 6, no-one told the main cast of heroes and villains that this was supposed to be an E6 campaign :smalltongue:

[hustlertwo]

His level...it's over 9!

[AtlanteanTroll]

Level, or Power Level?

Level ...


2 and 4 are just Rule of Funny.
I suppose so, but 2 is negotiable. While most of those might've been Rule of Funny, Kid Buu's beating is much less so. Buu's beating almost caused him to die, but he was saved at the last minute. Even if he wasn't at the point of no return when he was saved, it doesn't mean those wounds were negligible.



1 means that he's a very good martial artist by real-world standards. Most of the superhuman people had stopped competing by that point.
Or hadn't started.


3 is hard to judge, since in DBZ the stronger you are the slower other people appear (hence weak characters have a hard time even being able to see high-level fights).
Well yes. While he wasn't going as fast as Goku, he did go beyond what should be possible by mortal standards.


If you mean "level in an RPG", then in D&D 3.5 I'd make him a level 6 character (maybe lv7)... if fighting was all he did. Since he's so good at making people love him, I'd give him double the levels in a class with half the fighting ability (expert?), and focus on maxing out his Bluff and Diplomacy.
So something like 4th Level Fighter and 3rd Level Expert? Makes sense I suppose ... I was thinking maybe a Level of Aristocrat in there as well.

[Devonix]

I'd put Mr. Satan around where Goku was at the start of Dragon Ball just as durable and hard hitting and without the Energy blasts because no one taught him how to do them yet.

With one of the mystical trainers there is nothing to say that he couldn't be as powerful as the rest of the cast.

[onthetown]

Over 9,000, probably.

[Vent Reynolt]

Now I might be a bit crazy for suggesting this but maybe, just maybe, Hercule could be approximated (in 3.5 D&D) by Monk 6 or 7 with the ability to apply his charisma instead of wisdom to his Monk abilities.

I put his level at around six because he is superhuman in some respects, but not obscenely beyond all possibility. We do know that he has held the title of World Martial Arts Champion for several tournaments, and while the real superhumans weren't competing, we have no reason to believe that the competitors as strong as Nam (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Nam) also simply stopped competing.

[Jan Mattys]

Krillin is the strongest human of all.
Ok, he's got no nose. But otherwise, he's just a human. That's why I love him so much despite him kicking the bucket every other episode.

And seriously, Krillin is pretty much Epic by human standars.
I'd put Mr. Satan at around lvl 6. Able to curbstomp every low level in existence, but prone to one-shots by Krillin+ level fighters.

[Obrysii]

I would say that he would be Monk 6, just to make it a nice, even number.

Of course, converting DBZ characters to d20 stats makes it somewhat difficult - Freiza in final form is likely about level 50, and I don't want to contemplate the higher powers.

[Vent Reynolt]

I would say that he would be Monk 6, just to make it a nice, even number.

Of course, converting DBZ characters to d20 stats makes it somewhat difficult - Freiza in final form is likely about level 50, and I don't want to contemplate the higher powers.

But it's balanced by the fact that they can't use magic (especially epic magic) so they can't end reality as a standard action. I mean, sure, they can destroy planets, but it's not like they can stop time (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Guldo), or polymorph into anything that they want (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Puar), or avoid fighting entirely by turning people to stone (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dabura) or anything else. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Majin_Buu)

[Thrawn183]

But it's balanced by the fact that they can't use magic (especially epic magic) so they can't end reality as a standard action. I mean, sure, they can destroy planets, but it's not like they can stop time (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Guldo), or polymorph into anything that they want (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Puar), or avoid fighting entirely by turning people to stone (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dabura) or anything else. (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Majin_Buu)

Sadly, Majin Buu could do a surprising number of these, or similar.

[Pokonic]

I would say monk 6 as well, so that, while he is a potent fight to a average joe and can preform a few feats that are out of the norm for the average human, he cannot hold a candle to the true heros, who are most likely in epic.

[Seerow]

Sadly, Majin Buu could do a surprising number of these, or similar.

GT had some funky powers too, though I don't remember most of it, I do remember large scale mind control.


But yeah, I always thought the series really should have just ended with Freiza's death. The Cell Saga was decent, and another decent end point, but everything after that just got silly.

[Starwulf]

GT had some funky powers too, though I don't remember most of it, I do remember large scale mind control.


But yeah, I always thought the series really should have just ended with Freiza's death. The Cell Saga was decent, and another decent end point, but everything after that just got silly.

Didn't Akira Toriyama(sp?) state that he had specifically wanted to end the series with the Cell Saga, but due to the immense popularity, was basically forced into writing the Buu Saga? The GT saga I'm not even sure if he was the author of that, though I could be wrong.

But yeah, Cell Saga iirc was supposed to be the end-point. Goku was dead, supposedly for good, but the Earth had a new protector in the form of his son Gohan, who had managed to surpass his father in total fighting strength/ability. All was right in the universe, the end.

[Ravens_cry]

Mr. Satan was always my favourite character. In almost any other universe, he would have been a champion.

[Devonix]

Didn't Akira Toriyama(sp?) state that he had specifically wanted to end the series with the Cell Saga, but due to the immense popularity, was basically forced into writing the Buu Saga? The GT saga I'm not even sure if he was the author of that, though I could be wrong.

But yeah, Cell Saga iirc was supposed to be the end-point. Goku was dead, supposedly for good, but the Earth had a new protector in the form of his son Gohan, who had managed to surpass his father in total fighting strength/ability. All was right in the universe, the end.

Freeza Saga was supposed to be the end point, then Cell Saga was supposed to be the end point, then he finally told them that if they wanted to continue after the Buu Saga they would have to do so without him... Which they did.

[KillianHawkeye]

Freeza Saga was supposed to be the end point, then Cell Saga was supposed to be the end point, then he finally told them that if they wanted to continue after the Buu Saga they would have to do so without him... Which they did.

Luckily for us, Japanese comic writers are basically slaves to the publishers. :smallwink:

As for GT, I believe he gave them some ideas and such, but didn't do any real work on it.

[Arakune]

And what class I suppose. Hercule is viewed as incredibly weak in the DB(Z) universe, being easily out classed by Pan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu. However, he is the strongest normal man on the planet.

So, let's look at his achievements:

1. Reigning World Martial Arts Champion (a title fairly and legitimately won pre-series).
2. Survives being tossed around and beaten by the likes of Trunks, Perfect Cell, Bojack, Android 18, and Kid Buu.
3. Using high-speed-movement.
4. Surviving the series as a whole without ever actually dying while still being present at many events (through luck or otherwise).

So ... Yeah. :smallredface:

He would do OK during the Dragon Ball timeline, even go as far as a semi-finalist. I'm not sure if he ever fought against some non-humans before, like a giant half-man half-dinosaur, or a vampire, or something else equally different.

As for the 'tricks', he never got hit full force by one that won't insta-kill him so everything looks so out of place, but during the early years the Martial Artists were strong enough to warrant pre-emptive targeting from Piccolo out of fear of reprisal.

[Prime32]

As for the 'tricks', he never got hit full force by one that won't insta-kill him so everything looks so out of place, but during the early years the Martial Artists were strong enough to warrant pre-emptive targeting from Piccolo out of fear of reprisal.Well, technically he was only afraid of one of them learning the Mafuba (http://www.dragonballencyclopedia.com/qdb/Mafuba) technique.

[Frozen_Feet]

He's a level 10 Monk in a world where everyone of the main cast is Epic Martial Initiates. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

GT had some funky powers too, though I don't remember most of it, I do remember large scale mind control.


But yeah, I always thought the series really should have just ended with Freiza's death. The Cell Saga was decent, and another decent end point, but everything after that just got silly.

I probably would've included the first couple-post goku episodes "the Sayaman Saga" as it were, as an epilogue to cement the passing of the torch theme.

[Seerow]

I probably would've included the first couple-post goku episodes "the Sayaman Saga" as it were, as an epilogue to cement the passing of the torch theme.

I dunno, I was a lot happier with Gohan as he was at the end of the cell saga than I was with him as a goofy teenager. It only got worse when he got a massive powerup in the Buu saga, then in GT miraculously forgot how to fight -again-.

No, better to just leave it off with Goku dead forever, the torch has been passed, we can live without seeing the happily ever after.

[Starwulf]

I dunno, I was a lot happier with Gohan as he was at the end of the cell saga than I was with him as a goofy teenager. It only got worse when he got a massive powerup in the Buu saga, then in GT miraculously forgot how to fight -again-.

No, better to just leave it off with Goku dead forever, the torch has been passed, we can live without seeing the happily ever after.

Yeah, the Cell Saga was the perfect ending point for me. Frieza left one to many un-answered questions/plot hooks to end the series there, especially the whole "Hidden power inside Gohan" bit, which iirc, the Namekian Elder stated he couldn't fully draw out. The power-up to SSJ2 was much better as far as revealing a great latent power, and over-all I just loved how Gohan was portrayed at the end of it all.

The Buu Saga was annoying as hell as far as Gohan was concerned. From all-powereful SSJ2, to barely being capable of becoming a SSJ. I will admit, I actually much rather preferred the Ancient Kai's ritual of "truly" releasing Gohans hidden power compared to that of the whole SSJ2 bit, but that was probably the only part of it I really enjoyed where Gohan was concerned.

I'll fully admit, I've only watched parts of the Bebe(Bebi?) Saga in GT, and that's the extent of my GT knowledge, I just couldn't force myself to watch it all, so I had no idea they pulled the whole "Gohan can't fight worth crap anymore" bit, really does suck though, as I figured the Mystic Training wasn't really something that could be "lost" or "undone" really, which would leave Gohan pretty damn powerful no matter how lax he got in his training.

Do wish I could have watched the Super 17 bit though in GT, I've read a bit about it, seems like the one really interesting plot arc in it, what with Frieza and Cell trying to bust out of Hello, Dr. Gero and that other nutcase scientist teaming up and making Super 17, though, only if Super 17 was as cocky and arrogant/brash as the original 17.

[turkishproverb]

I dunno, I was a lot happier with Gohan as he was at the end of the cell saga than I was with him as a goofy teenager. It only got worse when he got a massive powerup in the Buu saga, then in GT miraculously forgot how to fight -again-.

No, better to just leave it off with Goku dead forever, the torch has been passed, we can live without seeing the happily ever after.


See, I thought that's hal fof what worked. He takes his father's role. He's a bit goofy (really, goku was never exactly without comedy) but ultimately a hero.

I think the whole buu saga gives those episodes a bad name. In and of themselves they lend something interesting to the dragonball saga as a whole.

[Starbuck_II]

Devil Man in Dragon Ball season was best Villian.
He can kill anyone with any trace of evil in them. Only when Goku was a baby and innocent of all bad thoughts was he immune.

Surprised no one tried to revive him to take over world...

[turkishproverb]

There was kind've another devilman that might've conflicted with. Namely the 1972 one that the villain was physically and in name a massive reference to.

In other words, I imagine he stayed dead because using him too much would've felt less like homage and more like theft.

The fact he could kill anyone who tried to use him as a tool would've helped too.

[Prime32]

There are some videogames where Devilman kills half the villains in What If scenarios.