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TheLaughingMan
2011-07-25, 12:11 PM
So, I thought I might throw my hat into the ring, but I don't know nothing about the game. Can someone explain it to me, in terms a five year old would understand? :smallredface::smalltongue:

dsmiles
2011-07-25, 12:12 PM
Any particular game, or roleplaying games in general?

Yora
2011-07-25, 12:34 PM
Did we lose the game? Wrong forum then. :smalltongue:

TheLaughingMan
2011-07-25, 12:47 PM
Any particular game, or roleplaying games in general?

Just the basics. Didn't have any game in mind.


Did we lose the game? Wrong forum then. :smalltongue:

The only rule of The Game is that I always win. :smallcool::smalltongue:

Qaera
2011-07-25, 12:53 PM
Gentlemen (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=106537).

Stay classy.

~ ♅

Welknair
2011-07-25, 01:03 PM
I'd assume he's referring to Dungeons and Dragons.

The base concept is pretty simple. You have one "Dungeon Master" and four or five "Players". The whole thing is a collaborative story of sorts. Each player controls a single character while the Dungeon Master (DM) controls everything else. The players have "Character Sheets" detailing their characters' various statistics, such as health, items, level and XP. Any action that has a probabilistic outcome (Such as the result of swinging a sword at a guard) requires the player to roll a 20-sided die and add a bonus found on their character sheet. The game is played using only paper, pencils, books, dice, imagination and your voice.

Example of gameplay:

DM: The party enters the cave. There is a musky odor that is none too appealing emanating from further within and a deep breathing sound echoes around you.

Player 1: I hold forth my torch and see what there is to see.

DM: Your torch reveals that the cave is in fact a tunnel - It continues backwards another 60 feet before narrowing a bit and turning to the left.

Player 2: I charge down the tunnel!

DM: Make a Reflex Save.

Player 2: :smalleek: .... I got a 7. Stupid fighters.

DM: You sprung the the trap. You take... *Rolls some dice behind a screen* 17 damage.

....

And so on. The game itself focuses a lot on combat, experience points, loot, leveling up and killing things. Since the DM ultimately decides what happens, you can do anything as long as the DM says it's okay. So it's not like in those videogame RPGs where there's that annoying "Boundary at the edge of the world" or "No, you can't mug the shop keeper" or "You HAVE to complete the quest". You can do... ANYTHING. And it's MARVELOUS.


TL; DR: People come and talk and make a story. Its pretty neat.

dsmiles
2011-07-25, 01:04 PM
Wikipedia says. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roleplaying_game)

My explanation:

Roleplaying games are social events where people get together to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow your characters may die.

TheLaughingMan
2011-07-25, 01:53 PM
Thanks! Now, if you would be so kind (and to keep this thread useful in the future :smallbiggrin:), can we go into the specifics? (of character creation, battle, and so on)

You guys (and maybe gals) are awesome. :smallbiggrin:

The Glyphstone
2011-07-25, 02:01 PM
First we need to know what game, and what edition of that game. You've got a LOT to pick from.

Urpriest
2011-07-25, 02:16 PM
First we need to know what game, and what edition of that game. You've got a LOT to pick from.

To explain, your question is a lot like asking "how do board games work?" You'll get a rough picture, but you can't get any details by asking a question like that.

Welknair
2011-07-25, 02:32 PM
And even if we assume you're referring to Dungeons and Dragons because that's the focus of the comic, there are still many different versions all with different variations of gameplay. The comic features the 3.5 edition but the most current is 4e "Essentials".

If we don't assume you're talking about D&D, then there's so many other games to consider. Exalted, Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, GURPS, Mousegaurd, Scion and many more.

Every version of every game plays differently. Gonna need to narrow it down a smidge.

TheLaughingMan
2011-07-25, 03:54 PM
Every version of every game plays differently. Gonna need to narrow it down a smidge.

I'll go with D&D 3.5, as I hear nothing but scorn for 4e. If I can get the basics down for a game like D&D, I should be able to comprehend the rest fairly easily. :smallsmile:

0Megabyte
2011-07-25, 04:05 PM
If you hear nothing but scorn for 4th edition, you're hearing from the wrong people. It's a significantly different gamr from 3.5, but it works at what it sets out to do, which is a fundamentally different thing than what 3.5 does.

Keep in mind, I like both. And also keep in mind, if you were interested in starting with 3.5, you should instead look for Pathfinder. It's actually currently in print, and is essentially the same the exact same game.

Welknair
2011-07-25, 04:11 PM
I'll go with D&D 3.5, as I hear nothing but scorn for 4e. If I can get the basics down for a game like D&D, I should be able to comprehend the rest fairly easily. :smallsmile:

Well again, not all games are played the same. And there's a sizable gap between 3.5 and 4e.

However, it just so happens 3.5e is my specialty. I also think it's the most used version on these boards, given that OotS is placed in a 3.5 world. But that doesn't mean 4e has no good points and no one likes it. I believe it has a decent fan base and I know of several groups that play with it. It's also the most available currently as you can actually buy the books in standard bookstores.

Without even needing any books, you can find most of what I'll be talking about here (http://www.d20srd.org/).


When making a character, there's a couple key things you'll need to decide. Race and Class are among the most important. Depending on your Race you'll have different modifiers. Standard PC (Player Character) races include Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Halflings, Half-Elves and Dwarves, though there are many more from supplement books. Your Class is your character's vocation. These are things like Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, Druid, Cleric and many more. These are fairly self explanatory. Once you've chosen these two things you can really get cranking.

You need to know what level you are. Many campaigns start at level 1, but then again many don't. Standard play ranges from levels 1-20, though there are "Epic Level" rules to extend play to any level. Most of the population is level 3 and below. Levels 1-7ish are considered the "Low Levels", 8-14ish is the "Mid Levels", 15-20 is the "High Levels" and 20+ is Epic. Some of the rules really start to break down in Epic Levels and the differences between casting and non-casting classes becomes enormous.

So let's say I want to make a Level 1 Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm) (Scroll down a bit). Well there's a couple thing I need. Oh, first you should have a character sheet (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/charactersheets). Okay, now that you have that we can continue. You should determine your Ability Scores. These are your six innate attributes that are used for a wide variety of things. These are Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, Strength, Dexterity and Constitution. Human average is 10 and many races get modifiers to these. The "Standard" method for determining scores is rolling 4d6 (4 six-sided die) six times, dropping (ignoring) the lowest each time. You can then assign these six numbers as you see fit. The way you assign these should be in keeping with your Class (Wizards need Intelligence, Fighters need Strength and Constitution, etc.). Once you've written those, you'll want to know your Abililty Score Modifiers. These are values derived from your scores and is the modifier that actually applies to things. The table for determining these can be found about half-way down this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm) page.

-Edit Insert after adding that link: Wow. I shoulda linked you to that first. That'll help a lot. HERE IT IS AGAIN (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm). It explains the "Basics", but not everything you need to play. Mostly it defines the Ability Scores, gives the table for them and defines a bunch of terms. Should help some.

Next up will likely be your HP, designated by the Total Hit Points in the top rightish of the sheet. At first level you determine this by adding the maximum result of the "Hit Die" (HD) of the class to your character's Constitution (Con) modifier. In this case the Wizard has a "d4 hit die" so that's 4 + Con mod, which is likely 0 or 1. So let's say I have 5 HP. Well... that's just swell. A Housecat could kill me. You also have your "Current HP" which is how much is left out of your Total.

Nearby the health you'll find the "Armor Class" or "AC" section. Your AC determines how difficult it is for someone to successfully hit you. The main area has boxes for a lot of factors. Right now, we just have a Dexterity Modifier. Let's say it's a +2. So We have a standard Armor Class of 12. Our Flat-Footed AC (The AC you use when someone gets the jump on you) does not include your Dex modifier. So then it'd just be 10. The Touch AC (The AC that determines how hard it is to touch you, not necessarily get around armor) ignores Armor, Shield and Natural Armor bonuses to AC and is used primarily for Touch Spells and Ranged Touch Attack spells. As a Wizard, we aren't wearing any armor. So it's still 12.

You'll see a box labeled "Base Attack Bonus" somewhere leftish under your Saves. You get this from the Class Table. Go back to that Wizard-y table where you found the Hit Die. Far left column. At level 1 our Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is... 0. WOO! We can't hit the broad-side of a tavern! Well that's to be expected. A Fighter, on the other hand would start with a +1. As you can see this gets better over time. Classes have a BAB progression of 1/2, 3/4 or Full (1 every level). Wizards and other "Full Casters" have the 1/2 progressions, Rogues and other "Okay with fighting, just not great" characters have the 3/4 progressions and Fighters and other "HULK SMASH" classes have FUll BAB.

Since you had to look past them to find the BAB box, you probably noticed the Saves. You use these to throw off adverse effects. Usually spells, though they are also used for poisons, traps and other stuff. The "Base Saves" are once again found in that handy table. You then add in the relevant modifiers from your Ability Scores (Con Mod to Fortitude, Wisdom Mod to Will, Dex Mod to Reflex). Don't forget to total 'em up.

Spell Resistance and Damage Reduction: By default you don't have any.

Grapple Modifier: Just put in the numbers you got from other stuff. Pretty self-explanatory.

GIANT SKILLS BOX TO THE RIGHT: On the class table you'll notice the "Skill Points at Each Level" and the "Class Skills". First put a check in the white box for each Class Skill. Now at first level you start with a number of Skill Points to spend equal 2+Int X4 for a Wizard. We likely have an Int mod of 3. So we start with... 20 points. We can spend points for "Ranks" at a 1 for 1 ratio for Class Skills and a 2 for 1 ratio for "Cross Class Skills" (Those that don't have the little check-y thing). At this point you can have no more than 4 ranks in any given skill. Feel free to distribute as you see fit. Every skill does something different and some will be more useful than others for different classes. As a Wizard, I'll opt to put max ranks (4) in Spellcraft, Knowledge: Arcana, Concentration, Decipher Script and Knowledge: The Planes. Explanations of the skills can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/skills.htm).

Before I continue, let me explain one of the most basic mechanics of the game: The "Skill Check". Let's say I'm trying to climb a tree. I'd need to make a "Climb Check". The standard "Difficulty Class" (DC, the number you need to meet or beat) for a skill check is 15 for something moderately difficult. Like this plane tree here. If I were scaling a sheer-rock-face, it might be more like 20 or 25. This is just a tree. I now roll a d20 (20-sided die. I hope you're catching on the naming system for these) and add my "Climb Modifier" which is the number of Climb Ranks I have plus my Strength modifier. I'm a Wizard. I'm a puny weakling who has never learned to climb. And so my modifier is 0. I roll. And I got a... 16! I successfully climbed the tree. This is how most Skill Checks work.


Let's say I have a gnarled old staff. Let's call it a Quarterstaff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm) for all intents and purposes (Scroll down or use a search function. You'll find it). I don't have "Two Weapon Fighting" (Whatever the heck that is) so let's ignore that aspect of it for a second. I'm a Medium sized creature (Oh, I'm an Elf, didn't I say?) so I use the Medium column of damage. If I were using it as a double-weapon I'd write the damage as 1d6/1d6. I'm using it as a single one so I just use 1d6. Since it's a melee weapon I also add my Strength (Str) mod to that. Which is 0. Great. So under damage I'd write "1d6+0". For the "Attack Bonus" that's going to be my BAB plus my Str modifier since it's a melee weapon. Again, 0. The critical hit info gotten from the table is "X2". Which means if I get a Critical Hit that it deals double damage. Range is "-", Type is Bludgeoning and there's nothing of Note.

I WANT TO WHACK THE ORC OVER THE HEAD! Standard attack roll is 1d20+Attack Bonus (AB). Which for me is 0. Let's say I get a 17 (I'm rolling really well). I compare this with the Orc's AC (Standard AC if he knows I'm there, Flat-Footed if he doesn't). Let's say I hit him. I then roll damage. In this case 1d6+0. He then subtracts that amount from his Current HP. When my HP drops to 0 I'm "Crippled". Below that I'm not dead, but unconscious. At -10 I'm really dead. And at negative HP I need to make a Fortitude Save each turn (1d20+Fortitude Modifier) at DC.. 15 I think? Or lose 1 HP. If I succeed I "Stabilize", stop losing HP and slowly heal over time.

I'll get more into combat and how actions work in a bit. First, let's finish that character sheet.

Turn (Or Scroll) to Page 2. WOAH! That's a lot of stuff. Still. Top left first. At level 1 we have... 0 Experience Points. We get those from killing things. We don't have armor or magic gear to boost our AC currently, so just ignore those "Gear" boxes for now. Under "Other Posessions" we can list things like our rations, staff, spell-book, material components pouch, silver broach, blankets, bed-rolls and the like. It's your Inventory. As a Level 1 Wizard we start with around 100 gp. There's some little formula given in the PHB (Player's Hand Book) that's not on the SRD, but I'm AFB (Away From Books) at the moment so I can't look it up. Quick guide to D&D currency: 1,000 Copper (CP) = 100 Silver (SP) = 10 Gold (GP) = 1 Platinum (PP). Gold is the standard form of currency for adventurers while most commoners deal primarily is CP and SP.

Feats. What in the world is a Feat? Well, it's some neat trick that your character has picked up. There's TONS of them. Seriously. I'm talking about thousands. A lot of them can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm) (Hey, there's that Two-Weapon-Fighting!). At first level I get a single Feat. Let's say I choose Spell Focus: Necromancy. I'll get another at 3rd level and then one every 3 levels after that.

Let's do Languages real quick. As an Elf I immediately get Common (Yay universal language!) and Elven. I additionally get to choose one language for every point of Intelligence Modifier I start with. I have an Int Mod of 3. I'll choose... Draconic, Dwarven, and Ignan. There's tons of these.

Special Abilities. The meat-and-potatoes of a character. This is what makes you who you are. First I'd write down the various special stuff from being an Elf. Then I turn towards my Class. As a first-level Wizard I get three things. First is Scribe Scroll as a Bonus Feat. Well actually, I'd write that up in Feats, most likely. So I actually started with two there. Second I get a Familiar. That's detailed a little down the Wizard entry. Let's pick a Raven, cuz those are cool. The third thing I get is... SPELLS! I'm a Wizard!

Magic in D&D primarily is focused around the Vancian Spellcasting Model from Jack Vance's book series. The idea is that every morning the wizards must memorize their spells from spellbooks, then they forget the spells when they cast them. That's how it works for Wizards, Clerics, Druids and most other casting classes. There are a few exceptions that use odd systems to determine use of their supernatural abilities (Psionics, Binding, Truenaming, Shadowcasting, Incarnum etc.) but this is the main one.

As a Wizard I have the option to specialize into one of the eight schools granting me a bonus to it, but restricting my use of two others. I'm going to be a Necromancer, barring Illusions and Evocation. I'll start writing up my Spellbook now. *Gets sheet of notebook paper* I start with all 0-level spells. Oh, you should be looking at this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm) now. Except those from my Barred Schools, that is. So I write down all of those under my 0-level heading except for Ghost Sound and the Evocation spells. I then get to choose 3 1st level spells plus one for every point of Int mod I start with. So that's 6. Let's go with... Mage Armor, Ray of Enfeeblement, Cause Fear, Feather Fall, Grease and Chill Touch. Let's flip back to our character sheet now.

Down in the bottom right is a bunch of boxes. The far left is "Spells Known". That's for the Sorcerer and other "Spontaneous Casting Classes". We, like the Druid and Cleric are "Prepared Casting Classing". We can scribble out that row. Next up is the Spell Save DCs. Well first let's fill in the "Spell DC" box up above this. That's going to be 10+ our Intelligence Modifier. Or 13 right now. Now going down that second column the DCs are that Spell Save DC plus the level of the spell. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21. Good. Spells Per Day is gotten from the table. 3 0-level and a single 1st level. We also gain Bonus Spells from having a high Int. Go back to that Ability Score Table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm). You'll find 'em there. Lastly, as a Necromancer I get a bonus spell per day of every spell level except 0 that can only be filled with a Necromancy spell. So let's denote that with a little "+1" written to the right of the "Bonus Spells".

Now it's time to "Prepare" spells. I choose a number of spells from my Spellbook (remember that list I chose earlier) equal to my Spells Per Day. I can choose the same spell multiple times. So now during the day I can use each spell I've prepared once. Or more than once, if I've prepared it more than once. Write your Prepared Spells in the spots given for them in the Spells area. So let's say I've prepared my spells and chosen Cause Fear for my 1st level spell. Later on I encounter a guard that wants to arrest me for "Defying the laws of nature" or some similar nonsense. Time to Cause some Fear. I cast my spell and he makes a Will Save. The DC is that for any of my 1st level spells... 14. Oh, wait. Didn't I get Spell Focus: Necromancy? So that boosts the DC by 1. 15. If he fails he runs away screaming. Yay. If he succeeds... time to pull out the whack'in stick.

After 8 hours rest I can spend one hour to re-prepare my spells, regaining use of lost spells and being able to choose which ones I've selected. This means that most adventuring groups sleep for eight hours a night, just enough for the spellcasters to regain their spells.


Okay, that's it for your level 1 Wizard. Other characters of course will get different Special Abilities as detailed in their class tables. Fighters get a bunch of combat-related bonus feats. Druids get different spells and get a bunch of nature-based abilities. Rogues gain the ability to Sneak Attack people and get lots of evade-y abilities. Etc.

You don't want to stay at level 1, now do you? So here's what you do when leveling up: Refer to your class table and increase your Base Saves and BAB accordingly. Roll your Hit Die and add your Con Mod. Add this to your Total HP. Take a look at Special Abilities and spells. As a Wizard we gain some more spells per day and add two spells to our spell book. As I said earlier, at 3rd level I get to choose another feat. Then again at 6th. And 9th. And on indefinitely. I also get to increase one of my Ability Scores by 1 at 4th level and then once every 4 levels thereafter. I may also choose to take my new level in a different class instead of Wizard again or whatever other class I was. This is called MULTICLASSING. Pretty much you just confer with that class's table instead of your original one and add it's numbers. No, you don't get X4 the normal skill points for this. There are Prestige Classes which represent more niche vocations and have various requirements. I myself am aiming at becoming an Archmage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/archmage.htm).


And that's how character creation and progression works. All that's really left is Combat. Combat starts with Initiative. Oh, I forgot to tell you to add that on the front of your character sheet. QUICK TO THE FIRST PAGE! It's your Dex modifier. That's it. Okay then. When combat starts, assuming both sides are aware of each other, everyone "Rolls Initiative". They roll 1d20 and add their Initiative modifiers. You then determine the order in which characters take their turns. Highest Initiative goes first. Each turn you get a Standard, Move and Swift action. A single attack is a Standard Action. Moving your move speed (30ft for most medium characters. Which is 6 squrares) is a Move action, as is doing things like picking up your sword or closing a door. Swift actions weren't actually added until later on and are used for really quick things. Mostly the activation of class abilities that aren't meant to prevent the use of standard attack or movement in the same round but still are more than a Free Action. You likely won't be using Swift actions much, if at all. You may opt to take a Full-Round action, such as a casting some spells (Most Summon Monster spells are Full-Round actions) or taking a Full-Attack Action in place of taking your Standard and Move actions.

And that's as much as I'll go into it.

This guide is hardly inclusive. This is enough to have a basic idea of what we're talking about. There's tons more that I'm not going into. And I likely forgot some important bits.

Feel free to ask questions if you want to know about anything in particular.

Gavinfoxx
2011-07-25, 04:15 PM
There are several online tools which will help you build characters.

One guy's site has 3.5e, Pathfinder, and 4e character generators.

http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm

http://www.pathguy.com/PathfinderCore.htm

http://www.pathguy.com/cg4.htm

Of course these aren't, you know, complete! But using the 3.5 and the pathfinder one, and the appropriate SRD's for each, can help you hobble together a character without using the books.

Shadow Lord
2011-07-26, 10:24 PM
You see, this is why Gareth is awesome. And pathfinder isn't the exact same as D&D 3.5; it differs in many ways, and fixes a multitude of things.

The Glyphstone
2011-07-26, 10:27 PM
You see, this is why Gareth is awesome. And pathfinder isn't the exact same as D&D 3.5; it differs in many ways, and fixes a multitude of things.

And breaks a few things to boot, but for the most part the new holes are a lot smaller than the old ones, and fewer in number.

Welknair
2011-07-26, 10:36 PM
And breaks a few things to boot, but for the most part the new holes are a lot smaller than the old ones, and fewer in number.

And then there's a couple of very notable holes which Pathfinder either does a shoddy job of filling or ignores altogether. See: Wildshape (They tried, at least) and Wizard v Fighter.

Mechanically though, it is very, very similar.

The Random NPC
2011-07-26, 11:45 PM
I thought stabilization was a d100 roll, you had a 10% chance to stabilize, a 10% chance to wake up, and a 10% chance to start healing again, otherwise you lose a hitpoint.

Welknair
2011-07-27, 12:12 AM
I thought stabilization was a d100 roll, you had a 1% chance to stabilize, a 1% chance to wake up, and a 1% chance to start healing again, otherwise you lose a hitpoint.

Quite possibly right. I was going off of memory, so I was quite likely incorrect. It was something involving a roll and stabilizing or bleeding.

Edit: You'd think this'd be the type of thing I should remember.

Defiant
2011-07-27, 01:49 AM
It's 10% to stabilize.

Shinigaze
2011-07-27, 02:32 AM
It's 10% to stabilize.

I back this up with my seal of approval, (now that I've looked it up, I also thought it was a DC check)

Knaight
2011-07-27, 03:33 AM
If I can get the basics down for a game like D&D, I should be able to comprehend the rest fairly easily. :smallsmile:
That's not how it works. There are cases where learning with D&D actively inhibits learning other games. To use a film analogy, if Casablanca is what you start with, and understand film to be, watching Twelve Angry Men should be easy, as you understand how that subset of movies work. If, however, you start with 27 Dresses or Transformers, Twelve Angry Men will seem odd and harder to understand than normal.

I recommend starting with a wide basis of games. While I can't compile this list on my own, I can provide a basic framework. Said framework will use GNS terminology, though highly bastardized. I'll also throw in 5 levels of rules complexity for each, with 1 being incredibly rules light (probably a short book, with a handful of rules you will quickly memorize) and 5 being incredibly rules heavy (probably a thousand pages plus, with tables everywhere). Free games will be listed with a parenthetical F after them.

Gamist (Focus on the game as a game)

1) Risus (F)
2) Warrior Rogue and Mage (F)
3) Savage Worlds
4) D&D 4th Edition
5) ???
Simulationist (Focus on the game as a simulation of something)

1) ???
2) ???
3) Fudge (F)
4) GURPS (F), D&D 3.5 (F), Pendragon (F)
5) Rolemaster, HERO
Narrativist (Focus on the game as a story generating device)

1) Wushu (F)
2) ???
3) FATE 2 (F), FATE 3 (F), Mouse Guard
4) Burning Wheel
5) ???

Eldan
2011-07-27, 04:16 AM
Games can be very, very different.

D&D 3.5, as an example: in most cases, your character is a hero in a more or less medieval- or dark age-ish fantasy world full of monsters and weird creatures. While there are a number of pre-made worlds you can buy (the famous Forgotten Realms games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights are set in, but also less well known ones like Eberron, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, Mystara...), you can also create a new world from scratch, as many groups do. Your character will, after the first few levels, be a HERO hero. Superhumanly tough, or with magic to shatter small countries. You will have a character sheet that is two to four pages long, full of numbers.

Contrast FATE: Your character is about half a page long, at best. You have a handful of skills with numbers between +1 and +4 at character creation, and five Aspects that describe your character. These aren't chosen from a list, these are just things you think describe your character and write down. Literally anything. "Voice of an Elder God"? Sure. "Panics under pressure"? Certainly. "Has a really nice mustache"? Can happen. And all of these work more or less the same, by the rules, giving a bonus when they apply, and a malus (just as important) when they are detrimental. All checks, in general, work the same, by rolling four dice, adding a relevant skill, an aspect if applicable and comparing to the opponents skill value.

Contrast White Wolf games: these are generally also relatively rules heavy, but they are intended to be played in very specific worlds, which are described in exhaustive detail. The rules are, instead of being semi-generic like in D&D, usually closely tied into the world.

Compare more free-form games: some games, like D&D, have core rule books of 300+ pages total, and heaps upon heaps of expansions, so that you can easily fill an entire bookshelf with just D&D rules. Others fit on half a page, and that's all the rules they have, and ever will have.

dsmiles
2011-07-27, 05:06 AM
Simulationist (Focus on the game as a simulation of something)

1) ???
2) ???
3) Fudge (F)
4) GURPS (F), D&D 3.5 (F), Pendragon (F)
5) Rolemaster, HERO
That's pretty spot on, but I'd have to argue that RM/HARP is any more complex than DnD 3.5e. It took my group way less time to pick up RM (from 3.5e) than it did for us to pick up 3.5e (from 2e). We may be atypical, though.

Knaight
2011-07-27, 06:50 AM
That's pretty spot on, but I'd have to argue that RM/HARP is any more complex than DnD 3.5e. It took my group way less time to pick up RM (from 3.5e) than it did for us to pick up 3.5e (from 2e). We may be atypical, though.

I'd disagree, having come to both of them from a fairly wide base of games -though I gravitate heavily to rules light simulationism, and tend not to have as good knowledge of games on the high rules end of things. That said, 3.5 and GURPS were both easily understood, and easily learned. RM and HERO meanwhile had me rechecking acronym meanings, going back to look at tables again, so on and so forth repeatedly.

Tyndmyr
2011-07-27, 08:28 AM
I feel you've all been trolled rather effectively.

The Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28mind_game%29).

Also, you've all lost it.

Lord Loss
2011-07-27, 09:13 AM
I'd personally play 3.5 instead of Pathfinder, because 3.5 has a far larger player base than Pathfinder, so it'll be easier to find a group.

1of3
2011-07-27, 11:18 AM
So this is D&D 3.5:

www.d20srd.org

This is Pathfinder:

www.d20pfsrd.com


Have fun.

TheLaughingMan
2011-07-27, 06:08 PM
-snip-

What I meant was, if I can get stuff like the basics of stats and things down, I'm pretty apt at understanding the rest. You can't learn how different so-and-so is in one game from the next when you don't know what so-and-so is.

Knaight
2011-07-27, 06:20 PM
What I meant was, if I can get stuff like the basics of stats and things down, I'm pretty apt at understanding the rest. You can't learn how different so-and-so is in one game from the next when you don't know what so-and-so is.

True, I'd just suggest not starting with D&D. Look at Wushu and Risus for instance, both free, and GURPS Lite also free. Now, note the differences. Wushu has exactly three stats in one type, but you make up what they are. Risus has a variable number of stats that add up to a total, and you also make up what they are. GURPS Lite meanwhile has 4 set, specific stats in the category of Attributes, more set specific stats that are derived from them, variable quantities of set skills which have several levels, variable quantities of advantages and disadvantages which are mostly binary there/not there entities, and maybe a few other things.

Not only that, "stats and things" aren't even universal. There are games where there are no stats, games where stat variation is entirely numerical variation of set non-numerical descriptors, games where all statistics are non-numerical with created descriptors, so on and so forth. Then there is the matter of how the game is played - as a character; as an author with control over several characters, setting details, etc; as a contestant in a competitive framework. Some games are so vastly different that its easier to move from no understanding of role playing games than from one to the other, and D&D is very particular in what it is. Learning from it, exclusively, at first breeds certain notions of what role playing games are, which are fundamentally incompatible with certain other games.

Welknair
2011-07-27, 06:36 PM
So after reading my giant thing you should have a basic idea of how to play a roleplaying game. Where to go from here would be to pick a game to play. And there are plenty out there. Decide what kind of experience you want to have, see what books are available, and who around you is playing what.

Then again, you may not even want to play. In which case hopefully my description should be enough for you to get the gist of what we're talking about, as the vast majority of RPG stuff here is 3.5.

erikun
2011-07-27, 06:36 PM
What I meant was, if I can get stuff like the basics of stats and things down, I'm pretty apt at understanding the rest. You can't learn how different so-and-so is in one game from the next when you don't know what so-and-so is.
Well, role-playing is primarily a social activity. It's something you get together with friends to do, like playing video games or watching a movie together. If you've ever come out of a movie theater, acting like or mimicing the characters you've just seen on-screen, that's a lot like role-playing. The main difference is that, rather than acting like the character just did, you think up how the character would act in other situations.

A role-playing game is just role-playing in a set of rules. If you are King Arthur, you are a knight good at riding and swordplay and with heavy armor, noble and chivalrous, but you don't go around casting magic. And if you are Merlin, you are well-learned and capable of casting spells or brewing magic potions, but you have little clue about swords or armor. And neither run around with laser-pistols, because there aren't any laser pistols in King Arthur's time.

Most RPGs allow you to create your own characters, or give you some "stock" characters that you are free to use. (A game about King Arthur might have Arthur and Merlin as possible characters, for example.) Most games have a set of values to determine how good your character is at various tasks, such as swinging swords or riding horses. Most RPGs allow you to roll a dice to determine the success or failure of actions you try to take - tasks that your character is good at are weighed in your favor, while tasks your character is poor at are weighed against you. And I say "most RPGs" because there is always one or two out there that act differently.

And despite my examples, not every RPG is about medieval Arthurian fantasy. The most popular one, D&D, is though.


I'll go with D&D 3.5, as I hear nothing but scorn for 4e. If I can get the basics down for a game like D&D, I should be able to comprehend the rest fairly easily. :smallsmile:
In D&D, you have six attributes that determine roughly what your character can do. Strength is how physically strong your character is, Dexterity is how physically agile, Constitution is how physically tough, Intelligence is how mentally quick-witted, Wisdom is how mentally resilient, and Charisma is how persuasive your character is.

Success or failure is determined by a twenty-sided die, called a "d20". For any roll you make, there are bonuses and penalities you apply to the dice roll. Success is determined if you roll at or above a target number. If you have "+10" to a roll with a target number of 25, then you roll the twenty-sided die, add ten to the result, and check to see if the result is 25 or about.

In game terms, this is written as d20+10 for the roll, with DC 25 (the Difficulty Class of the challange).

The other major parts of D&D are classes and experience. Your character gains experience as they overcome challanges, much like most computer RPGs. (In fact, most computer RPGs took this right from D&D.) Your character belongs to a class, which determines what they can do - Fighter fight well and wield heavy armor and swords, while Wizards cast spells and have trouble wearing heavy armor.

D&D 3.5e (Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 edition, basically an updated version of the 3rd edition rules) has one major thing different: you may "multiclass" more or less freely. Every time you gain a level, you choose what class to take a level in. While most games with the class system restrict you to one class - "You are a Fighter, you only get better at fighting!" - in 3.5e you are free to grab a level in Wizard whenever you want to. Do note that this isn't always a good thing, though. Someone who is half-leveled as a Fighter and half-leveled as a Wizard generally ends up as a mediocre sword fighter and a mediocre spellcaster.

There's a lot more to it than that, but I think that covers the basics (and hopefully does so shortly).

Knaight
2011-07-27, 06:44 PM
Most games have a set of values to determine how good your character is at various tasks, such as swinging swords or riding horses. Most RPGs allow you to roll a dice to determine the success or failure of actions you try to take - tasks that your character is good at are weighed in your favor, while tasks your character is poor at are weighed against you. And I say "most RPGs" because there is always one or two out there that act differently.

Not necessarily. What you describe are task resolution mechanics. In addition to those, there are conflict resolution mechanics, narrative control mechanics, and a few other major kinds, as well as the various niche oddities.

erikun
2011-07-27, 06:51 PM
Not necessarily. What you describe are task resolution mechanics. In addition to those, there are conflict resolution mechanics, narrative control mechanics, and a few other major kinds, as well as the various niche oddities.
This is true. Resolving a task (being able to say you failed or succeeded by the rules) varies a lot between systems, and even between parts of a system. Some systems, even ones where you typically roll dice, have a way to determine success or failure in cases without rolling anything.

On the other hand, D&D will almost always ask you to roll a die to determine if you succeed.

Knaight
2011-07-27, 06:58 PM
This is true. Resolving a task (being able to say you failed or succeeded by the rules) varies a lot between systems, and even between parts of a system. Some systems, even ones where you typically roll dice, have a way to determine success or failure in cases without rolling anything.

On the other hand, D&D will almost always ask you to roll a die to determine if you succeed.

My point is that in some systems, you don't resolve a task. Its not about whether or not you failed or succeeded by the rules, it might well be about, for instance, the extent to which the result of a conflict went your way and the concessions made that are indicative of imperfections in that result. It might be about the extent to which you are allowed to direct the narrative and the characters in it for a period of time, including directing them to failures or successes entirely by choice. So on and so forth.

D&D is a largely binary task resolution system, where you roll to see if you succeed or fail. That isn't the only method of operation however.

Yora
2011-07-29, 03:53 AM
For example, In Mouse Guard, when you fail crossing a log bridge, you end up in the river and have to find a way out. If you fail to swim to shore, you're draged away by the river. Now you have to find your way back and if you fail you get lost.
Failing a task mostly means that you have another obstacle in your way that you have to overcome to reach your final destination.