Good wizard build without breaking the game.

[jeice]

Hey guys, our current group is in need of a mage type of character so I'm going to build one as a backup to my main character. DM has even mentioned our lack of a caster so I might even bring him in earlier to help out the group.

Basically I'm looking for a good strong build that isn't meant to destroy the game, though I think that will ultimately fall on my limiting myself from doing it. I'm not looking to purposely gimp myself, in fact I want him to be somewhat optimized but I simply won't choose the worst of the worst spells. My goal is to provide utility to our group, increase our survivability and ultimately give us travel and item creation options.

tl;dr for those that don't want to read the setup...


Group is mostly non-optimized consisting of a Dwarf Barbarian, Human Ranger, Favored Soul and my swordsage. My guy is already the most optimized but the DM is trying to help out the others. The dwarf has contracted lycanthropy from a were-boar(he doesn't know it yet), so at the first full moon he will find out and his guy will become much stronger. Ranger is the weakest with only 10 str and focusing on archery. DM is trying to help his guy out as well but ultimately he is by far the weakest member.

DM allows sources outside of Core, however he pulls all of his magic items and such out of the DMG so to find anything non-standard I believe we'd have to have it crafted or possibly specifically requested in game from a magic mart. We haven't even ran into many casters yet, so it's my thought that relying on the DM for drops and access to spells will be limited and that's how I want to approach the build. We're all around level 4 right now and if I were to bring in a guy he'd probably be around level 3. Also we're below WBL with treasure so I know scrolls and spells won't be growing on trees.

I highly considered a sorcerer but I know with the right choices a wizard can have just as many, if not more spells available as a sorcerer not to mention the synergy of Int versus just Cha. So my first order of business is a build that gives me a lot of spells known and access to the most "free" spells to rely on loot and scrolls to gain access to more spells. We're playing an FR campaign so race choices must come from PHB or FR books. Kobold cheese is out of the question btw, DM isn't big on cheese like that especially when the other characters are mostly core. We roll our stats via 4d6b3 which I haven't done yet, but regardless of my rolls I will be putting int -> con -> dex as my stats and going from there.

I've read most of the wizard guides, but most are designed to totally optimize your guy with the assumption you have limitless access to any spell you want, etc... I'm just looking for the best way to achieve the most spells known and the path to creating a wizard that fulfills the groups needs.


My current thoughts are:

Race: Strongheart halfling (for small size and bonus feats), Gnome (boost to con, small size), Lesser Tiefling (boost to dex and int with negatives to dump stat, darkvision, energy resist, etc..), Some sort of Elf (+int, elven generalist ACF).

Choices:

Domain wizard: Extra spell slot, free spells
or Specialist Wizard, or even focused specialist for even more spells.
Fighter bonus feats: To pick up improved intiative instead of scribe scroll.

Feats:

Collegiate wizard (most access to free spells and I'm not worried about PrC's right now so taking more wizard would be fine. I may also see if DM will allow the extra spells with PrC's due to the cost of the feat and limited access to spells).

Arcane thesis: Wizard won't be a blasty type, though I'd like at least one or two spells that can bring some pain if needbe so focusing on one may be my best bet. Instead of a bunch of blasty spells readied, I'd prefer to just rely on one or two that tend to work on most creatures and can rely on.

Goals:

I mostly want to have utility for the groups needs. Being able to teleport, have some battlefield control, some good buffs for the melee guys, debuffs for the baddies and perhaps a few good damaging spells if we need some extra damage. I don't wish to break the game, though having some power to save the group if needbe would be welcome. That way I'm not always being the hero, but if it comes down to it my wizard can do what needs to be done.

Should I go generalist wizard so I don't lose any access to schools? Should I instead focus on something like transmutation and give up evocation to gain more spell slots? Just looking for some ideas to consider based on my current groups needs and falls within my guidelines.

[Vandicus]

Normally I don't recommend dumping evocation like many optimizers do as I find that when I actually play a wizard in a campaign I find that there are a number of levels where evocation is pretty useful(In the campaign I'm currently running a wizard managed to save his life and the lives of most of the party from death/wraithhood with a fireball centered on himself(which was ironically the best placement option). No other spell he could've learned by this point would've saved the party). In this case however, if you're sure that you don't want to do much damage(a sensible enough decision though I prefer to possess the option), then an evocation dump makes sense.

[aquaticrna]

a fun and quite functional build is to go wizard/beguiler (or sorc) and then into ultimate magus, if you build it right they can be very heavily optomized, but if you want a lot of spells per day and spells known it's a very good way of going about it. What you want to do is be a specialist wizard and give up illusion and enchantment, and then your beguiler spells completely make up for that so hey no down sides! you can even go focused specialist for more spells per day, but unless you go sorc and deal with the MAD you can't make up for all of that with the beguiler.

[Flickerdart]

War Weaver seems right down your alley - you can buff all your friends, especially the archer (who would welcome a Flame Arrows, I'm sure). You can only enter at 6th, so it's a little ways away, but set your sights on it - make room for Enlarge Spell and 8 ranks in Craft(Weaving).

The Combat Wizard variant is very good, but since your party is wealth-deprived I would strongly consider keeping the standard Wizard bonus feats and picking up some crafting feats. Remember that you can take the first of such feats at 3rd level, so you can go Enlarge Spell, Collegiate Wizard, Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Magic Arms and Armors as your 1st, bonus, 3rd and 5th bonus level feats.

If you go the crafting and buff routes, you're not playing Wizard to its absolute strongest, but you're also getting something back for reining yourself in, namely a stronger party.

[Keld Denar]

Focused Specialist Conjourer is pretty awesome. You have lots of options, just from the Conjouration school alone. I'd drop Enchantment and Evocation, and then your choice of Abjuration or Necromancy. If you have a Cleric in your party, Abjuration. If you don't, then probably Necromancy.

Trust me, with just access to PHB, SpC, PHBII, and CMage, you'll have PLENTY enough Conjourations to cover every situation without even summoning a single creature. Focus on disables and control spells like Glitterdust and Solid Fog, and you won't steal anyone's spotlight, but you'll still be a very vital party resource.

[Big Fau]

Basically I'm looking for a good strong build that isn't meant to destroy the game, though I think that will ultimately fall on my limiting myself from doing it. I'm not looking to purposely gimp myself, in fact I want him to be somewhat optimized but I simply won't choose the worst of the worst spells. My goal is to provide utility to our group, increase our survivability and ultimately give us travel and item creation options.

Honestly, the standard Battlefield Control method means you will never be defeated in a fair combat-based encounter.

I recommend Focused Transmuter and buffing the party so it looks like they are doing everything while you are free to assess the situation from afar. Try to get access to the War Weaver PrC in Heroes of Battle.

[jeice]

Focused conjurer or transmuter were my original options and it seems they may be the best bet. My main problem is that I've never really played a wizard so I don't exactly know what all I'd be losing by dropping certain schools. Necromancy seems a decent option, the main thing I'd be losing is enervation though I guess that's not too much of a big deal.

What is everyone's thoughts on losing the familiar in lieu of gaining another benefit or switching it to an animal companion or something? Familiars seems like a big liability as you lose exp and the familiar for a long while if it dies. Is it mostly a headache or is it worth it?

[aquaticrna]

they're situationally handy, but probably not really worth it... they can be fun for rp more than just about anything else

[Big Fau]

Focused conjurer or transmuter were my original options and it seems they may be the best bet. My main problem is that I've never really played a wizard so I don't exactly know what all I'd be losing by dropping certain schools. Necromancy seems a decent option, the main thing I'd be losing is enervation though I guess that's not too much of a big deal.

What is everyone's thoughts on losing the familiar in lieu of gaining another benefit or switching it to an animal companion or something? Familiars seems like a big liability as you lose exp and the familiar for a long while if it dies. Is it mostly a headache or is it worth it?

A properly optimized familiar is about as powerful as having a pet Rogue. The XP loss can be prevented by playing smart and buffing him properly, which is one of the reasons a Transmuter should never trade it out. The animal companion comes out much weaker than the familiar due to you only having 1/2 the effective Druid level, and can't get Share Spells until 10th (or 7th with a feat), whereas you'd get it at 5th.


As for banning schools, Necromancy, Evocation, and Enchantment are the default bans for a Focused Specialist Transmuter (Necromancy's buffs are very limited, and the Debuffs redundant compared to your Transmutation ones, Evocation is weak and offers the party very little, and Enchantment is very weak due to majority of its spells being Mind Affecting).

[NNescio]

Focused conjurer or transmuter were my original options and it seems they may be the best bet. My main problem is that I've never really played a wizard so I don't exactly know what all I'd be losing by dropping certain schools. Necromancy seems a decent option, the main thing I'd be losing is enervation though I guess that's not too much of a big deal.

What is everyone's thoughts on losing the familiar in lieu of gaining another benefit or switching it to an animal companion or something? Familiars seems like a big liability as you lose exp and the familiar for a long while if it dies. Is it mostly a headache or is it worth it?

At higher levels of optimization familiars are rather useful due to Share Spells (with say, Polymorph) and being able to play a role in contingencies and pseudo-contingencies. They also share their masters' skill ranks. The raven is notable since it can speak, thereby allowing it to activate command-word items (with UMD, if it's needed).

If Dragon Mag is in play, the hummingbird is also at least as good as Improved Initiative. An Elven Wizard can even double said bonus by taking racial substitution levels.

A familiar, when used well, is possibly even more valuable than Abrupt Jaunt, since the latter eats up swift/immediate actions which are precious at higher-level play.

That said, it takes a lot of effort to utilize a familiar that well. At lower levels, ACFs like Abrupt Jaunt are more powerful, and Rapid Summoning is particularly valuable to a dedicated summoner no matter what level they are.

(It might also be possible to have your cake and eat it too by taking Obtain Familiar after you traded away your familiar for your ACF, which is even better for PrCing as your familiar advancement is no longer dependent on your wizard class levels, 'though this might not fly under certain DMs. Especially if you trade your 'second' familiar for another ACF.)

[Keld Denar]

Keeping your familiar around is a decent idea if you plan on using Imbue with Spell Ability, or having measurable ranks in UMD. Otherwise, not so great. I'd suggest going Conjourer and getting Abrupt Jaunt. AJ is pretty much one of the best defensive abilities for a Wizzo.

[jeice]

Thanks for all the great input so far. I've read the guide on familiars, but in the end I'm not sure if I really want to put that much work into them. I'd probably give it up for abrupt jaunt and then consider taking it as a feat later if I really needed to.

If I were to focus on conjuration would the ACF's that give better summoning options be worth it? The level 3 summon monster seems really good and giving it bonuses or faster casting seem better than an equivalent blasting spell. At level 5 the creature would last 5 rounds and offer itself up as another target instead of the party members and provide some extra damage.

[Keld Denar]

I'm playing a FS Conjourer in a high level game (started at 11, leveled to 15 so far), and in the 10 or so high optimized encounters we've faught, I have yet to have been in one where summoning would have been a productive option. Unless you are going all Malconvoker and utilizing a lot of summons that have their own spellcasting, generally you'll get better mileage out of non-summoning Conjourations than you will out of the summoning ones.

My own experience. YMMV.

Besides, you can't get AJ and Rapid Conjourations at the same time, since both require you to swap out your familiar at 1st level.

[jeice]

I'm playing a FS Conjourer in a high level game (started at 11, leveled to 15 so far), and in the 10 or so high optimized encounters we've faught, I have yet to have been in one where summoning would have been a productive option. Unless you are going all Malconvoker and utilizing a lot of summons that have their own spellcasting, generally you'll get better mileage out of non-summoning Conjourations than you will out of the summoning ones.

My own experience. YMMV.

Besides, you can't get AJ and Rapid Conjourations at the same time, since both require you to swap out your familiar at 1st level.

Which feats did you end up taking? Cloudy conjuration seems to be a strong choice, as is minor shapeshift especially if you have weak con score. Would acidic splatter be a good choice at lower levels if you have the chance to retrain it (which we do)? That way I can still have some sort of damage output if needbe and only have to have one level 2 spell slot set for it.

Also if a DM were to allow it, would Eidetic Spellcaster from Dragon magazine be worth it? No spellbook means no getting it stolen and a lot less headaches.


You do not need a spellbook, either to prepare spells or record new ones. You gain/learn new spells normally otherwise, including paying the appropriate gold pieces (for special incenses) when acquiring new spells that aren't from gaining a level.

[graeylin]

agree with focused conjurer or transmuter. Ten times.

I am playing a focused transmuter now, he's got very good power, but not game breaking. Decent buffs, battlefield control is solid.

And, he summons a LOT, so I can see that a focused summoner would be just as awesome. You really can't go wrong supporting a good party with lots of summons, it's like having an entire hardware store you can instantly pick from for tools you need.

[opticalshadow]

i wouldnt look past focusing in illusion pending your dms acceptence of still image. there are what called "killer gnome" builds that basically involve getting into shadow craft mage, and casting nothign but illusion spells to mimic other spells.

using these builds lets you use spells on lists you dont have anymore, as well as providing suficent firepower in battle, and more then enough utility out of battle. you also can control how powerful each spell is, meaning you can shine when you need to the most, and just be there when you want other too, alterinitivly, you can just manipulate the battlefield and control the enemy movements, noth directly attacking but effecting.

[Keld Denar]

My Conjourer banned Abjuration (since we had a Cleric, and now have a Rainbow Warsnake, and have always had a Psion with Dispel Psionics). I took Quicken Spell, Split Ray (only advisable if you don't drop Necro, since there are so many good Necro rays), Metamagic School Focus (Conjouration), Minor Shapeshift, Spell Focus (Conjouration and Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Conjouration), and Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Knowledge Religion. His actual build is:

Wizard3/Master Specialist4/Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3/Wayfarer Guide1/Archmage2

Had to burn a LOT of feats on prereqs (2 Spell Focus and 2 Skill Focus) but got Greater Spell Focus, Skill Focus Spellcraft, and another feat as bonus feats from Master Spec and Loremaster. Wayfarer Guide1 is a really neat level. The prereqs are nearly trivial, and bringing an extra friend with you on Teleports sometimes makes the difference between leaving friends behind and bringing them with. He mostly uses Metamagic School Focus on Quicken Spell to get lower level quick teleports like Dimensional Hop and Benign Transposition, along with some nukes/disables like Orb of Fire and Glitterdust. Split Ray mostly pairs up with Ray of Enfeeblement (to hit 2 targets), Ray of Exhaustion (auto-exhaust, regardless of save), Enervation (its a 9th level spell in a 6th level slot!), and lately Split Ray Stun Ray has been pretty effective from 8th level slots with MMSF.

[Endarire]

Cloudy Conjuration has saved me once or twice, but has gotten in the way too frequently to be useful.

I dump Enchantment and Necromancy first. A mature GM is required to allow mind controlling and (re)animating his favorite creatures. Also, they have the fewest utility spells.

Evocation has wind wall, gust of wind, contingency, wall of force, forcegae, and fire shield. Beyond core, they get a bit more.

[jeice]

I've been doing some more reading and I think I've nailed it down to a focused conjurer that PrC's into Master specialist at 4. Not sure how far to take it from there, but since I'm in FR the Incantrix is a viable option. Probably will take the abrupt jaunt ACF, collegiate wizard and then spell focus conjuration to get into the master specialist. Collegiate wizard depends on my DM's allowance of me gaining the extra spells even in the PrC. RAW would say no, but since master specialist is just a continuation of a specialist wizard without anything special he might go for it. Might go for sculpt spell for my level 3 feat to make my conjured area spells even more nasty.

Will also probably take fighter feat wizard to grab improved initiative and hopefully with some lucky rolls and a +dex race I'll get to go first a lot. With nerveskitter spell is improved initiative still worth it?

I know there are many ways to go about this, but I really think the focused specialist will give me the most ammunition per fight since there are so many good conjuration spells to take. Besides, controlling the battlefield and debuffing enemies let's the other guys do their thing without stepping on their toes. I can always pick up craft wonderous item at 6th level if by then we're really hurting for magic items.

[Vandicus]

Not sure how far to take it from there, but since I'm in FR the Incantrix is a viable option.

If you can get a high enough spellcraft your team will love you if you take Incantatrix and Persist Spell/Extend Spell to lengthen the duration of their buffs. Don't abuse the PRC too much though, its very powerful to begin with and you're already a tier 1 class in somewhat poorly optimized party.

[Keld Denar]

As I mentioned, especially with a large party, a 1 level dip in Wayfarer Guide is pretty worthwhile. You'll have to join a guild, per the class fluff, but that isn't so bad (contacts!). Its basically casting all of your Teleport spells at +3 CLs. I wouldn't get the 2nd level, as its dead, but given that there are almost no prereqs, 1 level is fine.

I'd honestly avoid Incantatrix. Its one of the big 3 highest optimization PrCs in the game (well, other than the 3 unmentionables). You mentioned that you are playing in a low op game, so this might be a bit too much.

I really like the combo of Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3. The prereqs overlap (both require Skill Focus: Knowledge(Religion)), and Loremaster even gives you a bonus feat to make up for it. DO1 gives you access to lots of really powerful cleric divinations, including Divination and Commune, while DO2 gives you Prescience Sense, which is basically Evasion with a different name. Loremaster3 gives you 2 secrets, one of which should be the bonus feat. For the other one, the +2 Fort save is probably the best, given that failed Fort saves often kill you to death. Its just a really elegant way to spend 5 levels with some neat benefits, IMO.

[jeice]

I'll have to look into the other prc's tonight, but you're probably right on Incantatrix. I guess my intention was not to use it to it's full extent, but nonetheless at times I'm sure I'd be tempted to.

I'm considering banning enchantment, evocation and necromancy as my 3 schools. We have a favored soul, but no cleric so I'm thinking I may not want to give up abjuration. Enchantment seems to be an easy choice and we see a lot of undead as it is(DM loves giving us negative levels and ability damage) so a lot of spells may not be useful anyways. Evocation has some useful spells, but if I've ready correctly shadow evocation can replace any of the non target spells without any negatives. There's also the craft contingency spell feat that can replace the need for the spell. Necromancy seems to be the one I'd hate to lose most due to all the good debuffs, but you can't have it all and it seems the extra conjuration spells can more than make up for the loss. I thought about illusion but honestly I want to be able to cast things like invisibility and mirror image for survival purposes.

[Angry Bob]

One thing to note is that you can still have a strong character without being banned. If you spread the brokenness around and don't hog the spotlight, you can get away with a lot.

I should know. I played an artificer once. It was assumed the rogue and the druid were breaking the game. Only after the game had ended did the fools realize it was me all along.

It's since been agreed that artificer is off-limits for all but our highest powered games in the future.

On a more related note, if you cherry-pick evocation for spells other than direct damage, you can find some gems, like crushing grip in the PHBII. Just a thought. Not enough to justify specializing, but possibly an argument against barring it completely.

[kardar233]

I'd honestly avoid Incantatrix. Its one of the big 3 highest optimization PrCs in the game (well, other than the 3 unmentionables). You mentioned that you are playing in a low op game, so this might be a bit too much.

What are the 3 unmentionables? I can guess Planar Shepherd, Tainted Scholar, but what's the third? Hulking Hurler?

[NNescio]

Red Wizard?

[Big Fau]

What are the 3 unmentionables? I can guess Planar Shepherd, Tainted Scholar, but what's the third? Hulking Hurler?

Shadowcraft Mage for Shadow Miracle spells.

[dextercorvia]

Beholder Mage is the last unmentionable.

[Divide by Zero]

Could also be Illithid Savant. Really, there's a lot of stuff out there that literally breaks itself.

[jeice]

I think it comes down to choosing not to break the game instead of not taking certain classes. At any rate one level of wayfarer guide indeed looks good and would help teleport the entire party earlier than normal, not to mention making dimension door and other spells even better.

Question. Would this 50% extra distance in teleporting apply to abrupt jaunt since it's an SLA? Also what about benign transposition, etc...?

[Keld Denar]

Beholder Mage, Illithid Savant, and Tainted Scholar. 10 spells per round, Pun-Pun, and infinite spells/day with infinite DCs.

Next to them, Planar Shepherd is tame, IMO.

The next big 3 are Planar Shepherd, Dweomerkeeper, and Incantatrix.