Hypothetical Metamagic/Metapsionics Transparency

[Zaq]

So, hypothetically (and I do mean hypothetically . . . I have no plans of doing such a thing, nor is any game I'm in going to allow such a thing), let's say that you could turn any (ooh, there's that word that WotC shouldn't use) metamagic feat into a metapsionic feat using the pattern established with existing metapsionic feats, namely, that it costs (spell slot increase – 1) * 2 additional PP (minimum 2), and requires you to expend your psionic focus. What's the worst that could happen? I want two things:

1) Show me the worst that you'd actually try to bring to a high-op table. You know, the kind that would allow an Incantatrix (but maybe not a Planar Shepherd or a Tainted Scholar).

2) Show me the worst that you can come up with. You know, TO stuff.

A couple restrictions. First, please limit yourself to NEW stuff you could do with this rule. Second, let's not dwell too heavily on Dominant Ideal Ardents. Yes, they're awesome, but I'm looking more at the general case at the moment.

So, what's the worst that could happen at a table that allowed this rule?

[sreservoir]

irresistible spell as +3 metapsi doesn't seem bad.

[Zaq]

irresistible spell as +3 metapsi doesn't seem bad.

OK, a third restriction: let's keep it to real (first-party) D&D feats, please.

[Urpriest]

Well much has already been made of Persistent Power. It even exists in PF, IIRC. (Or DSP anyway).

I'd kinda enjoy Invisible, but only because I got egg on my face in the campaign I'm running over in PbP because I couldn't come up with a decent psionic analogue. But that's not especially powerful.

Oh oh. Sanctum. Bad juju that. Probably Heighten too, for easy Wilder-based qualification.

[Psyren]

I'd probably grab Fell Drain. You casters and your wightocalypses. :smalltongue:

[Jack_Simth]

Persistent Temporal Acceleration.

+6 metamagic adjustment -> +10 pp. Temporal Acceleration starts at 11 pp. Just need a way to get your manifester level 1 point above 20th... which isn't all that hard to do ... and now you have a full day of time available in an instant. Which is enough to rest up and regain all your Power Points. As a Swift action.

Oh yes, and it's still at 6th level power, so it's suitable for Contingency, Psionic.

[sreservoir]

Persistent Temporal Acceleration.

+6 metamagic adjustment -> +10 pp. Temporal Acceleration starts at 11 pp. Just need a way to get your manifester level 1 point above 20th... which isn't all that hard to do ... and now you have a full day of time available in an instant. Which is enough to rest up and regain all your Power Points. As a Swift action.

Oh yes, and it's still at 6th level power, so it's suitable for Contingency, Psionic.

don't forget to extend it with psicrystal containment or some such so you can have two cycles and still enough time to make tea the hard way.

incidentally, since it can be extended, and is a swift, it's actually quite a bit better than time stop.

[Jack_Simth]

don't forget to extend it with psicrystal containment or some such so you can have two cycles and still enough time to make tea the hard way.

incidentally, since it can be extended, and is a swift, it's actually quite a bit better than time stop.
Eh, you just use the last round of the thing to ready an action to manifest it again once the TA ends. Presto, no time for anyone else to do anything.

Suppose, for a moment, that you're an Elan. You now have FOREVER to reshape the terrain. Fabricate up stone tubes around everyone, and load them up with massive amounts of rocks, say, to crush them as soon as time resumes.

Oh, hey: That's where "Rocks fall, everyone dies" comes from. Bored Elans!

[Ernir]

Oh yes, and it's still at 6th level power, so it's suitable for Contingency, Psionic.

Or (arguably) your Persisted Synchronicity.

[sreservoir]

Or (arguably) your Persisted Synchronicity.

nope, you only get one action regardless of the duration. nothing implies otherwise.

[Ernir]

nope, you only get one action regardless of the duration. nothing implies otherwise.

Sure, and you use that action to manifest Temporal Acceleration. It'd just be another way to to be "always prepared".

Only it definitely doesn't work because TA requires a swift action to manifest and Synchronicity only allows you to ready a standard action (not other actions). So never mind me anyways. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

Or (arguably) your Persisted Synchronicity.
Ooh, now that is an interesting one. A Synchronicity manifestation that you can use to take a standard action at any arbitrary point in the next 24 hours.... yes, that is useful. Ridiculously so, for only 13 power points and your focus early in the day. You go first in combat, and it sets your initiative to just before everyone else, to boot. Readied action for anything on any trigger you like. Yes... that's ... very, very useful.

[sreservoir]

Ooh, now that is an interesting one. A Synchronicity manifestation that you can use to take a standard action at any arbitrary point in the next 24 hours.... yes, that is useful. Ridiculously so, for only 13 power points and your focus early in the day. You go first in combat, and it sets your initiative to just before everyone else, to boot. Readied action for anything on any trigger you like. Yes... that's ... very, very useful.

have you seen anticipatory strike, and its 2 pp augment?

[Jack_Simth]

have you seen anticipatory strike, and its 2 pp augment?
I've seen Anticipatory Strike (Complete Psionic, page 79), but not it's augment.

Immediate actions have that pesky clause about not being able to take them when flat-footed.

[Psyren]

have you seen anticipatory strike, and its 2 pp augment?

What augment?

Also, AS does not permanently change your initiative order, while a Persistent Synchro (thanks to the Ready rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm)) would. So that's one key difference.

[olentu]

I've seen Anticipatory Strike (Complete Psionic, page 79), but not it's augment.

Immediate actions have that pesky clause about not being able to take them when flat-footed.

Oh the augment is from races of destiny printing of the power as I recall so it may not exist anymore depending on release dates.

Any way regardless of its existence it is or was that it changes your initiative order.

[Psyren]

Oh the augment is from races of destiny printing of the power as I recall so it may not exist anymore depending on release dates.

Any way regardless of its existence it is or was that it changes your initiative order.

Oh, nice, I never saw that. CPsi came out 2 years later though, so it takes precedence, but still neat.

[sreservoir]

hm, the flat-footed immediate problem is annoying, though.

[Jack_Simth]

What augment?

Also, AS does not permanently change your initiative order, while a Persistent Synchro (thanks to the Ready rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm)) would. So that's one key difference.
The biggest difference (in functionality) is the immediate action vs. no action needed bit (even the Races of Destiny version is an Immediate action, and can't be used if flat-footed).

Basically, Anticipatory Strike, to make you go first, requires you also have another specific ability active - Foresight, essentially, although certain class features will also do the 'never flat-footed' bit - while a Persistent Anticipatory Strike doesn't. Which is a considerable difference.

[sreservoir]

hey, you could always persist metamorphosis to dire tortoise!