Encounters-Per-Day Balance Issues

[TroubleBrewing]

I've been running 3.5 games for years now, but I don't think I've ever really grasped how to build proper encounters for a full days work.

I can make really interesting encounters, but I always fall into the trap of making them the same level as the party, and after such a difficult fight, they usually opt to rest for the night, thus creating a 15 minute-workday, and giving classes that can "nova" to a certain extent a serious edge.

What I'm looking for is a sort of formula or rule-of-thumb that I can use to avoid this in the future. Currently, I'm running a 6th level game with 4 players. What should my encounters look like for the day? Just on preliminary examination, it looks like I should have one 4th, one 5th, one 6th, and one 7th level encounter every day.

Is this a solid formula?

[Groverfield]

Enforce that your players can only sleep/rest for eight hours once a day, and that they'll either have sit twiddling their thumbs for the other 14 hours of the day or go adventuring.

[Divide by Zero]

You can use some time-critical plot points (but not too many, or your players will feel railroaded). "You get to the bad guy's room, only to find he already opened the gate to the Abyss. If only you hadn't stopped to rest twelve times, maybe you could have prevented this."

[TroubleBrewing]

It's not the constant resting that I'm concerned with.

If my encounters continue they way they go, and I prevent them from resting somehow, I can count on the party wiping by the fourth encounter of the day. I actually prefer constant resting to constant death.

Nobody has a usual formula for planning their daily encounters?

[Kol Korran]

The DMG assumes the party can handle 4 encoutners of it's CR before resting, but this changes with variant degree of optimization and migitating factors such as terrain, time limits, circumstances and so on. also- not all monsters of the same CR are equal in power. (especially when comparing from different MMs). 2 encounters of 4th level equal 1 encounter of 6th level and so on (again, this formula leavs much to be desired)

i think you may have one of 2 problems:
1) as you make an encounter interesting (say by adding a magical wind, fighting in a burning forest or the like), you may forget to adjust the CR due to the conditions. making the encounter in fact quite harder than it's regular CR. or...

2) you said that one encounter of their level exhausts them. do you know what defines an encounter of their level? if you have a party of 4 6th level PCs, an encounter oftheir level equals a SINGLE NPC of 6th level (with PC levels) or a SINGLE monster of CR 6. i may be assuming things, but from your description i got the hunch this might be your problem.

it might help us advise you if you describe 2-3 sample eno****ers that caused the party to stop and rest.
i hope this helps.
Kol.

[TroubleBrewing]

2) you said that one encounter of their level exhausts them. do you know what defines an encounter of their level? if you have a party of 4 6th level PCs, an encounter oftheir level equals a SINGLE NPC of 6th level (with PC levels) or a SINGLE monster of CR 6. i may be assuming things, but from your description i got the hunch this might be your problem.

Oh, I'm well aware of this. They're currently a party consisting of a Human Ardent (But the player seems to be terrified of using his power points, for fear of running out. Strange logic, to be sure.), a Synad Psychic Warrior doing his best to be an Ubercharger, a Dwarf Lurk, and a Human Crusader 5/Hellreaver 1.

Their latest encounter pitted them against a Tendriculos. Admittedly, I gave it a surprise round, which it used to remove the PsyWar from combat by beating him into submission and then grappling him. The Ardent, for whatever reason, opted to stab the thing with a spear instead of manifesting something useful. The Lurk's player is new, and did not realize that you can't sneak attack plant-type critters, and spent his first turn moving to flank the tendriculos, taking an attack of opportunity in the process. The Crusader hit the thing with a Stone Vise, immobilizing it for the round.

4 rounds later, the thing was dead, but the PsyWar was in the single digits for health and entirely out of PP, the Ardent had been swallowed whole and was unable to cut himself out for lack of a light slashing weapon and the damage took him into the negatives, the Lurk was low on health and entirely out of PP thanks to their low numbers and great enhancements, while the Crusader was mostly fine.

I don't consider myself a "killer DM", and my players don't accuse me of such, but most of their fights have gone this way. The Ardent is probably the weak link here, given that Ardent is a Tier 2 class, and the player is basically using it like a PsyWar without the powers. :smallannoyed:

[Ernir]

The Lurk and Psywar might be the two classes with the least stamina on those levels (assuming access to out-of-combat healing). Their PP totals are really abysmal. I can see why they feel like they're "out" after just one encounter. =/

Approximately four encounters with an encounter level approximately equal to the average party level works out... more or less OK, in my experience.
The Tendriculos fight shouldn't have been that draining on them. Bad tactics and lack of an arcane caster are probably to blame - the former will (probably) fix itself in time, the latter might be a reason for selecting less lethal monsters (if you run campaigns that way). :smalltongue:

Anyway, that's just musing. The real solution to the 15-minute workday is to give them incentives for not resting.

[TroubleBrewing]

Anyway, that's just musing. The real solution to the 15-minute workday is to give them incentives for not resting.

I'm more of a "stick" than a "carrot" DM. Any suggestions on incentives?

[Rei_Jin]

The issue sounds more like one of player ability and experience.

If you tell them that there's going to be at least 3 encounters every day before they can rest, it will give them an incentive to be more careful with their resources. You may also need to direct them to different options for building characters so that they can survive those three encounters.

Then, after you've been through 3 encounters, gauge how they're going. If they're going smoothly, then consider throwing another one at them. If they're not, then back off and let them rest. Also remember that roleplay encounters are expected to be part of the encounter system, and that they can choose to avoid a combat or even run away.