Thog and his Endless Rage

[werik]

I think that Roy has a good idea trying to keep Thog busy chasing after him at the moment and if he can outlast Thog's rage then he would have a legitimate chance of beating the brute again. But I just tried to roughly crunch the numbers (despite the fact that most of the numbers come from speculation) and figure out how many rounds Roy might have to avoid Thog before the rage wore off.

I invite you first to accept some of my assumptions (generous though they may be) about Thog's stats to give us a good idea of a maximum rage duration. First of all, I am assuming that Thog is about 15th level. All of the Order of the Stick seems to be around this mid to high level range and I think it's reasonable that the Linear Guild would mirror them in this respect. That being said:

Let’s assume that Thog is 15th level (probably 13 in Barbarian two in Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0064.html)) with a normal constitution score of 18 (+4). With a Greater Rage (gained at 11th level for Barbarians), Thog’s Constitution score would be increased by 6 to 24 (+7). Since a Rage lasts for Constitution modifier + 3, Thog could easily have 10 rounds of rage ability. If Thog took the Extend Rage feat from Complete Warrior (a distinct possibility) Thog could extend his range by 5 rounds, giving him 15 rounds of raging. The rage duration could go up even further since it is possible that Thog took the feat multiple times. We know that Thog has used Power Attack and Improved Unarmed Strike, both of which could have been his fighter feats. Assuming that he spent all of his other feats on Extend Rage (while not probable, this is possible) Thog could have taken the feat at 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, and 15th level. This would leave Thog with 40 rounds of raging.

I personally do not believe that Thog's rage will last quite this long as it is very possible that Thog's original constitution score is lower than 18 and that Thog did not spend all of his feats the same way. I would like to know what you all think, though, and see if my reasoning holds up for the maximum duration of Thog's rage.

[Adeptus]

I very much doubt it since it seems Thog raged for the first time breaking out of prison with Elan. He's been too happy and relaxed in his thuggery to be a raging barbarian.

[babson99]

I speculated here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11495851&postcount=1429) that Thog and Roy have been fighting for 12 rounds since Thog's rage began. If that's true, then

I agree that Thog must have taken Extended Rage at least once. If he took it once, he probably has about three more rounds of rage left. If he took it more than once, then Roy could be in for a long afternoon.

[gellerche]

I haven't played AD & D for 20 years - I just like following the OOTS strip. But Thog's rage has transformed him into a nigh-unstoppable fighting machine. In the rules, how long can something like this last?:

A certain number of rounds?
Until Thog takes a certain amount of damage?
Until his target is destroyed?
(My all-time favorite) As long as the plot needs him to?

[Morquard]

Lasts for 3 + characters con modifier (which gets a +6 due to rage, since thog is most likely higher than 13 [he has 2 fighter levels]).

So assuming Thog has a 18 con base, he has 24 when raging, thats a +7, so that would be 10 rounds.

Might be 1 or 2 more or less, but it's in that area. So it should be over soon.
Then he'll be fatigued.

[faustin]

I choose D: plot-priority.

[Ursus the Grim]

Isn't there a feat to Extend rage? Something like 5 extra rounds? His con could also be higher. Stat-boosting tomes, weird point buy systems, or wishes and such could have brought it up.

But yeah, what Faustin said.

[Kibble Sage]

Probably for as long as the story requires it, yes.

[cheesecake]

hopefully long enough for him the put Roy 6 feet under again. Then Thog can replace roy in the order of the stick!

[sims796]

hopefully long enough for him the put Roy 6 feet under again. Then Thog can replace roy in the order of the stick!

If they managed to defeat Xykon with Thog in charge, Roy would never live it down. Especially considering he'd be dead.

[ORione]

hopefully long enough for him the put Roy 6 feet under again. Then Thog can replace roy in the order of the stick!

Thog's not really the leader type.

[pendell]

Thog's not really the leader type.

Neither Haley, Durkon, nor Elan would accept Thog as leader. As a follower-type , yes. But not as leader. He doesn't have leadership ability or charisma.

Without Roy, there is no order of the stick. No one else has the personal magnetism which unites the team, the brains to lead, and the strength to keep underlings like Belkar in line. We've already seen what happens to the OOTS when Roy is absent. They fragment into ineffective parts.

Without Roy, no OOTS. Without OOTS, no comic.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Blisstake]

Eh, I don't think Thog has improved unarmed strike. Roy isn't getting any opportunity attacks because he doesn't have improved unarmed strike either. Plus, it explains why Thog keeps looking for rocks to throw.

[Vladislav]

... I just tried to roughly crunch the numbers ... Let’s assume that Thog is 15th level ... constitution score of 18 (+4) ... could easily have 10 rounds of rage ... If Thog took the Extend Rage feat ... possible that Thog took the feat multiple times ... I personally do not believe that Thog's rage will last quite this long ...

I would like to know what you all think, though, and see if my reasoning holds up for the maximum duration of Thog's rage.
I think Thog's rage will last as long as the plot will require for it to last.

I think Thog's selection of feats will be retconned to make his rage last for the time it lasts.

I think that regardless what your reasoning holds or does not hold, the only reasoning that matters is what the Giant has in mind plot-wise.

Everything else will be taylored to fit.

[JSSheridan]

If they managed to defeat Xykon with Thog in charge, Roy would never live it down. Especially considering he'd be dead.

So would he claim the Greenhilt Family Sword, melt it down and make a +5 greataxe?

[werik]

Eh, I don't think Thog has improved unarmed strike. Roy isn't getting any opportunity attacks because he doesn't have improved unarmed strike either. Plus, it explains why Thog keeps looking for rocks to throw.

I said that he probably has improved unarmed strike because his kicks seem to be dealing lethal damage. Roy's punches do not seem to be doing any visible damage, although this could be due to Thog's damage reduction as a Barbarian.

[dream_archmage@]

I think it is pretty obvious that Thog has the Dungeon Crasher class feature as well, since it is the only way I know to deal damage while Bull Rushing someone.

[sims796]

Eh, I don't think Thog has improved unarmed strike. Roy isn't getting any opportunity attacks because he doesn't have improved unarmed strike either. Plus, it explains why Thog keeps looking for rocks to throw.

I can see that as reasonable, in a story sense. If he had taken those feats, I can see him ignoring everything not immediately in his path in order to pummel Roy with his fists.

[NerfTW]

I think this is one of those rare instances I'd say "as long as the plot requires it", simply because we're only seeing two people fighting, one who keeps getting staggered. Accurately counting the rounds is dodgy at best (although we can get close), and I doubt Rich has Thog's exact feats mapped out. There's nothing stopping him from having Thog's rage stop and saying "That's how many feats he took" if someone asked. For all we know, Thog wasted feats.

Also, Roy just got healed up and just blinded Thog. If he can grab a weapon again, he has a good chance of beating Thog before his rage wears off anyways. Remember, this isn't the first time we've seen Roy get beaten down after losing his weapon, then beat the same person with his weapon. As much as he likes to brag, his greatest weakness is that without a weapon, he's useless in a direct fight.

[pendell]

I think this is one of those rare instances I'd say "as long as the plot requires it", simply because we're only seeing two people fighting, one who keeps getting staggered. Accurately counting the rounds is dodgy at best (although we can get close), and I doubt Rich has Thog's exact feats mapped out. There's nothing stopping him from having Thog's rage stop and saying "That's how many feats he took" if someone asked. For all we know, Thog wasted feats.

Also, Roy just got healed up and just blinded Thog. If he can grab a weapon again, he has a good chance of beating Thog before his rage wears off anyways. Remember, this isn't the first time we've seen Roy get beaten down after losing his weapon, then beat the same person with his weapon. As much as he likes to brag, his greatest weakness is that without a weapon, he's useless in a direct fight.

We've got a large number of EOB soldier there to prevent Roy's escape.Could Roy mug one and take his sword? Or could he arrange for Thog to go running into them, knock a sword loose, and then use it as a weapon?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[babson99]

I haven't played AD & D for 20 years ... In the rules, how long can something like this last?:

A certain number of rounds?


Like everyone else said, the answer is somewhere between "About 15 rounds" and "As long as the plot requires."

A clarification from one old-timer to another: a round equals six seconds these days, not one minute. Also, if you add an "A" before "D&D," you're showing your age. :smallsmile:

[werik]

I think this is one of those rare instances I'd say "as long as the plot requires it", simply because we're only seeing two people fighting, one who keeps getting staggered. Accurately counting the rounds is dodgy at best (although we can get close), and I doubt Rich has Thog's exact feats mapped out. There's nothing stopping him from having Thog's rage stop and saying "That's how many feats he took" if someone asked. For all we know, Thog wasted feats.

Of course I realize that the rage will last as long as the plot requires it, but there are still reasonable limits. I am merely trying to explore what those limits might be. I think babson99's earlier analysis of approximately how many rounds has passed precisely shows the difficulty with trying to perfectly synchronize the rules with what happened in the strip. Regardless I find the reasonable speculation to be fun and useful at giving perspective.

[Talvereaux]

I very much doubt it since it seems Thog raged for the first time breaking out of prison with Elan. He's been too happy and relaxed in his thuggery to be a raging barbarian.

Unless we run out of fudge ripple or sprinkles... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0252.html)

[Blisstake]

I think it is pretty obvious that Thog has the Dungeon Crasher class feature as well, since it is the only way I know to deal damage while Bull Rushing someone.

A lot of times The Giant gets creative with the rules, so it may not actually be a feat Thog has. Then again, I doubt it's something Rich thinks too heavily on... Thog's feats aren't particularly relevant to the plot.

[Kibble Sage]

There should still be swords lying around in the arena from the guards who were eaten by the allosaur, the gladiator killed by Mr. Scruffy, and so on. There should be enough discarded ironmongery for Roy to arm himself in 5 seconds flat.

[KillianHawkeye]

There should still be swords lying around in the arena from the guards who were eaten by the allosaur, the gladiator killed by Mr. Scruffy, and so on. There should be enough discarded ironmongery for Roy to arm himself in 5 seconds flat.

They probably clean that stuff up between fights.

[Knaight]

They probably clean that stuff up between fights.

Something to the effect of "Wait for 45 minutes while we get every crossbow quarrel fired out of the sand" was posted earlier. By the Giant. In a sarcastic manner, regarding cleaning stuff up between fights. They probably don't in that case. That said, most of the weaponry appears to have ended up in the Allosaurus's mouth, with the notable exception of crossbow bolts and one spear, which ended up fairly near Tarquin.

[Lord Bingo]

I think Thog's rage will last until his imminent death somewhere near the end of strip #800 when Roy is standing over his body, yelling "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!" at a disappointed crowd who has just lost their champion.

[Callista]

My vote: As long as it takes to play with a few more gladiator-movie cliches. :)

[kanachi]

Also, Roy just got healed up and just blinded Thog. If he can grab a weapon again, he has a good chance of beating Thog before his rage wears off anyways. Remember, this isn't the first time we've seen Roy get beaten down after losing his weapon, then beat the same person with his weapon. As much as he likes to brag, his greatest weakness is that without a weapon, he's useless in a direct fight.

Throgs axe may have had its shaft broken in two, but surely that could be used as a improvised weapon?