MM1-5: Tell Me What My Opinion Should Be

[Malimar]

I know MM2 is filled with mis-CR'd and poorly-designed (albeit occasionally interesting) creatures.
But how do the others stack up against one another, and why?
And how about the Fiend Folio?
What's the best book o' monsters?
What's the worst book o' monsters?

[Angry Bob]

MMII is malCR'd, but if you're willing to pick through and evaluate each creature's abilities, you can pit them against the appropriate party level regardless of CR.

MMIII has a lot of stuff from Eberron, like warforged and changelings. If you like those races, but don't particularly like Eberron, this is an excellent book. And if you do like Eberron, but your DM doesn't, it gives non-specific origins for such races to use in other settings.

MMIV-V I can't say I use too much. Just flipping through it, the monster format they use is much easier on the eyes, and almost every monster has a unique ability. Like I said, though, I don't know how useful those unique abilities are.

[Lord_Gareth]

It is my honest opinion that MMV is the best MM ever written, hands-down. I highly endorse it.

[The Glyphstone]

MMIV, on the other hand, is about half "Core Monster X, WITH CLASS LEVELS".

[Keld Denar]

It is my honest opinion that MMV is the best MM ever written, hands-down. I highly endorse it.

Blasphemy! MMIII is the best. It has high level monsters that, unlike the Tarrasque, actually have abilities to deal with high level adventurers! The CR15ish creatures in there like the Arcane Giant and a others are actually a decent fight for PCs, especially in groups or with class levels.

Well, I respectfully respect your right to your own opinion, no matter how wrong you might be! [/tongueincheek]

:smallcool:

[ImperatorK]

BoEF and Nymphology are the best.

[The Glyphstone]

What? Nymphology is awful for any group with maturity exceeding the average eighth grader. BOEF's worst issue is the 'art'.

[Keld Denar]

I was actually talking about BoEF with my RL gaming group. 2 of them have a copy. One of them even said he likes the art, and he's in his late 30s.

So...um...yea...and then I found $20!

[ImperatorK]

What? Nymphology is awful for any group with maturity exceeding the average eighth grader. BOEF's worst issue is the 'art'.
Does it somehow make my opinion wrong? :smallconfused:

[Zherog]

One thing to keep in mind is that MM2 is 3.0, so you'll need to do some converting if you want to use anything from it.

[Claudius Maximus]

I like MMIII the most, not just for the unassociated Eberron material, but because it just has a bunch of cool monsters that aren't pushovers.

I hate the MMIV and V layout, but there are some decent monsters in there. One thing I miss from I-III that they seem to have discontinued with those two is the tradition of giving a monster a bucketful of SLAs. I know it complicates things to an extent, but I had so much fun making plans for, example, a hag coven using their full capabilities. In IV and V the monsters just have a few direct combat applicable abilities and I think it detracts from their out-of-combat usefulness and their ability to impact the world beyond beating up PCs.

[PersonMan]

Well, let's see:

MMIII: I like it because of the abundance of playable monsters.
MMIV: Spawn of Tiamat are the big thing here. Also new format. Lore sections, too, which are good.
MMV: Mind Flayers of Thoon are the big thing here. The rest of the book...I don't really remember much about it, and I'm AFB at the moment.

[Malimar]

I don't have thoughts about many of them, but from what I've seen of MM5, I like it, because all the creatures seem to have a neat and usually unique gimmick (Thoon foremost among them), and many of them give advice on interesting encounter design (again, Thoon foremost among them). It's the kind of book I wish my DMs would use more often ever. So it's good to learn that opinion isn't misplaced.

I'll have to crack open MM3 again and take another browse through it.

[faceroll]

I like MM1 because it has some wtfbbqpwn stuff in it, and the iconics. MM2 has some really awesome stuff, as does Fiend Folio. Sure, there's a lot of hit or miss, and if you allow gate/shapechange abuse, then there'll be issues. And the CRs are all messed up, but I never look at those anyway. Too much variability in party capability, etc.

I don't like MMIV or V very much, but MMIII has some of the best out of the book stuff for all levels.


So...um...yea...and then I found $20!

20 dollars? But I wanted a peanut.... :smallfrown:

[Alleran]

Clearly the best of them is MMII, because of all the glorious things you can do with it as a Shapechange-casting wizard. Or sorcerer. Or druid. Or cleric, even.

Or Psion.

[Eldan]

I like Fiend Folio, just because it converts a few of my Planescape favourites. It also contains the Ethergaunts, one of my favourite villain species.

[hamishspence]

One thing to keep in mind is that MM2 is 3.0, so you'll need to do some converting if you want to use anything from it.

WOTC had a free online 3.5 update for several books- Deities & Demigods, Epic Handbook, Manual of the Planes, MM2, and Fiend Folio (slightly less updating needed for that one.)

So- some of the converting has already been done.

A few things may need more work though- all 3.5 elemental weirds have regeneration overcomable by various means- the 3.0 ones don't, and the update doesn't provide means either.

[Big Fau]

BOEF's worst issue is the 'art'.

Half-Giant Pixie.



MM4 is OK if you plan on running a Dragonic campaign (the CRs on the Spawn of Tiamat are actually accurate!). MM5 is much better than the original MM.


The Fiend Folio suffers the same problems as MM2: 3.0 and it shows.

[Lord_Gareth]

Half-Giant Pixie.

Hey, evil-aligned pixies need some kind of challenge when they're looking for non-consensual reproduction.

[Yora]

I'm suprised anyone likes MM5. When I looked through it, I considered it to be the worst monster book released by WotC. I hadn't really looked at the stats, but there's not a single creature I would ever like to use.

MM3 is very good. And like Eldan, I like MM2 and FF for the oldschool monsters they have, but they are not exactly "good".

[Big Fau]

Hey, evil-aligned pixies need some kind of challenge when they're looking for non-consensual reproduction.

Yeah, but how the hell does it work if the Pixie is the mother?

[Lord_Gareth]

Yeah, but how the hell does it work if the Pixie is the mother?

Hey, giant sorcerers need something to do with their ability to irresponsibly change other beings' size.

Alternately, the giants worship a goddess of love, and she did it.

EDIT


I'm suprised anyone likes MM5. When I looked through it, I considered it to be the worst monster book released by WotC. I hadn't really looked at the stats, but there's not a single creature I would ever like to use.

Why not? The MMV introduces a lot of unique and thematic encounters across all levels of play with a great spread of creature types, including a Tarrasque replacement that is so much more fun (and, since it's not implied to be [Unique], you can add half-dragon or something to it to make it fly), mind flayers you can introduce at low-to-mid levels along with their thralls and infiltrators that make great sympathetic enemies, an entirely new player race and outsiders galore that range from intriguing low-level encounters with unique mechanics (Gadacros) to mid-to-high level horrors that taint everything they touch (Adarus). Hell, even the really bad one (Remmanons) are full of awesome flavor and only require a minimum of alterations to make workable.

Were there a bad idea or two? Yes. The Living Construct giants in there were kinda lame, as were the elemental ogre-kin (both suffer from flat mechanical, rather than flavor, implementation). The Phantom template literally does nothing but give you a splitting headache; the ability it uses, as worded, honest-to-god does absolutely nothing. But overall it added a lot of stunningly unique, mechanically intriguing monsters and societies to 3.5 that can not only be used across all levels, but independent of concerns about campaign setting.

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a collar that makes you small. Also a combination of reduece person and enlarge person would work.

Or good aim and a little luck.

[Big Fau]

There is a collar that makes you small. Also a combination of reduece person and enlarge person would work.

Or good aim and a little luck.

I think you are missing the part where the Pixie gives birth to something at least the size of a full-grown Halfling.

[Lord_Gareth]

I think you are missing the part where the Pixie gives birth to something at least the size of a full-grown Halfling.

Enlarge + Permanancy is a wondrous thing.

[Big Fau]

Enlarge + Permanancy is a wondrous thing.

So basically the DnD equivalent of a Viagra overdose. Got it.

[HalfDragonCube]

So basically the DnD equivalent of a Viagra overdose. Got it.

Duuuuuude...

And anyway, a Viagra overdose doesn't have an xp cost.

[LansXero]

Duuuuuude...

And anyway, a Viagra overdose doesn't have an xp cost.

I bet anyone involved wishes it did. If you could just pay those memories away . . .

[Lastgrasp]

Fiend Folio is by far my favorite.

[The Glyphstone]

"Side effects may include nausea, chills, high blood pressure, energy drain, ability score damage, muscle weakness, confusion, dizziness,blindness, deafness, coma, death, headaches, and/or soul binding. Enlarge Person not recommended for all adventurers. If your buff spell lasts longer than 24 hours, consult your cleric immediately."

[*.*.*.*]

MM3 is the best for me, all of the CRs actually feel right!(unlike MM1)