Permanent potions as reward

[ImperatorK]

I'm thinking about implementing in my game a reward that will be a bunch of elixirs that aren't labeled (PCs won't have any idea what each potion does) and they will grant the drinker one permanent greater buff or a couple of minor buffs. The thing is, I want to make the beneficial potions to be mixed with non-beneficial, cursed ones. The PCs will have to choose only 1-2 random potions, no more.
What I asking for: please give me suggestions on some interesting and cool buffs or magical effects that would be worth more-or-less 50k gp as an item (ignore the permanency and slotlessness) and also give me some ideas on curses, but not ones that will penalize PCs, only ones that will have funny or weird effects (like changing gender, or something).
Hm. And what if the potions would give a buff AND a curse? :smalltongue: Like for example +6 Cha but you get changed into your opposing gender and you look extraordinarily beautiful. :smallbiggrin:

[Vandicus]

Curse:
Turn into a kobold
Uncontrollable laughter at precisely the wrong times

Buffs:
Growing wings
Gain the ability to blink(the spell) at will

[DukeofDellot]

There is a lot of potential, I will suggest that you design them with the player in mind.

For example, I had a player that specifically flips a coin to determine his characters' sex. This sex change wouldn't be that far removed from what he normally plays.

A player who's already running with a Barbarian (or similar) character might jump at the chance to get a permanent Enlarge Person, but the inability to enter certain doors could cause problems, at this point on, dungeons and other danger areas should have reasons to accommodate someone of his size (such as Dwarves enjoying to build impressive arches, high level devils are in the area and need them, or other nonsense).

A GURPS classic Super Speed plus hemophilia, you move at a faster rate, but you also bleed faster. Permanent haste (as the spell), any time you take an attack that deals slashing, peircing, or Bludgeoning damage, you begin bleeding taking 2 points of damage per turn (I'm assuming your characters are high enough level that this is a somewhat minor weakness) until he's hit with a cure spell or given first aid with a DC 20 Heal Skill check. A hit and run character would love this... and be able to manage the weakness pretty easily (especially a Ranger who could end the bleed himself with a spell).

Cold Blood, you may cast Hold Person at will, change the flavor to be freezing the opponent with ice (and the save to Fort), but if the character ever takes cold damage, he must make a Fort save (DC equal to 10+damage taken... or maybe equal to the damage itself...) or be Paralyzed for one round. I'd love this one... I don't know why though...

[Salanmander]

Wait, you want your characters to spend 50k a pop on this and randomly determine if it's positive or negative? This seems like something best not left to chance, especially if one person gets 2 powerful benefits, and someone else gets 2 character quirks.

I would make sure you're keeping the player in mind as you dispense these things, as if it's random you'd run the risk of making the game less fun.

That said, there are some great quirks you can throw at people. One of the most amusing characters that I played was a thrown weapon specialist who was completely neurotic about his equipment, and couldn't stand to lose any of it. This led to things like trying to sneak back somewhere after fleeing it to retrieve lost daggers, and the like.

As far as benefits go, I'd aim for ones that fundamentally change a character's options, rather than ones that change numbers. Give brute types the knockback ability instead of a bonus to strength, give battlefield control casters the ability to do limited shaping of AoE spells with no metamagic cost, give the druid wildshape(fine) (but disallow natural spell with it, 'cause seriously).

[ImperatorK]

No, the potions will be free, a reward. And the randomness is what I'm aiming for.

[Salanmander]

No, the potions will be free, a reward.

Oh, I see. It's much more reasonable to have them be possibly good and possibly bad in that case. However, I maintain that you should be making sure players don't end up feeling shafted by other people getting cool bonuses and them getting unrelated bonuses or negative things.

[Zejety]

I think this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203172) is relevant.

[Fitz10019]

Zone of Truth centered on you, but no visual or auditory effect -- when someone lies to you, your ear itches. For more cruelty, change the 'ear' part.

your fingers are invisible, except for your middle fingers

you gain 12 new languages, but only the pig latin version

you know, with absolute certainty and accuracy, the daily weather for the next 50 years

thematic music that only you can hear accompanies your every action (+1 morale bonus to attacks and saves, -5 to Listen checks)

your voice gains a harmonic echo (+2 to Intimidate checks, -2 to Bluff)

your shadow gains it's own intelligence (Alertness in properly lit areas, -1 morale penalty in low-lit areas, -2 in darkness)

you lose all bodily pigmentation (-2 Spot and Hide, +2 to all Charisma-based checks)

you are meant to die from magic (Diehard, -1 luck to all saves v. magic)

you see odors less than 3 hours old (Track as feat and Survival as class skill [+5 competence bonus if you already had both], Dazzled in crowded urban environs)

Fine (your physical stats and movement rates remain the same, but you are now this size category [your gear changes appropriately, too])

[RaggedAngel]

I'm a fan of things that have upsides and downsides; that way a player won't drink a potion and feel bad about it; they'll see it as an opportunity to be creative.

Here's a few:

1. They can use Detect Thoughts at-will, but there's a % chance that the target can hear their own thoughts as well (change the % based on how good you want this to be.)

2. Any weapon the target picks up becomes a +5 weapon, but if it ever leaves their person it crumbles into dust.

3. The character gains the power of a Truenamer of their level. :smallbiggrin:

4. The character gains a +10 bonus to Intimidate, but feels compelled to use it against everyone they encounter.

5. The same for Bluff.

6. One of the character's feats becomes 'floating'; they can change it every day. This is much better for spellcasters, but a melee character could switch out their Improved Grapple if they're off to fight a bunch of Gargantuan monsters (And never switch it back. I dislike grappling.)

[Cruiser1]

For balance and proper effect determination, it's important to determine the specific details of the potions. For example:

Are the potion effects irrevocably permanent? Or are they like a permanencied spell, in which case they are dispellable? If you step inside an antimagic field, are the effects suppressed?

For an effect like "+6 CHA and change gender", is the +6 CHA an untyped bonus, in which case it stacks with everything else? If it's say an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with a Cloak of Charisma.

[ImperatorK]

For balance and proper effect determination, it's important to determine the specific details of the potions. For example:

Are the potion effects irrevocably permanent? Or are they like a permanencied spell, in which case they are dispellable? If you step inside an antimagic field, are the effects suppressed?

For an effect like "+6 CHA and change gender", is the +6 CHA an untyped bonus, in which case it stacks with everything else? If it's say an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with a Cloak of Charisma.
That's not the topic of this thread. :smallannoyed:

[Quietus]

Rather than rolling to see if you get good or bad, I'd make a chart of things and have each potion have its own drawback. The aforementioned +6 cha/gender change would be a good one - "You become your vision of the ideal partner", say - and this way, everyone knows that A) There'll be something good in that thar pot, and B) No one gets screwed by taking a bunch of penalties with nothing to balance them out.

[NichG]

Some ideas:

- Your speech bypasses the normal limits of communication. Anything you say, no matter how complex, is conveyed with perfect accuracy and those you speak to understand it as you intended it (bypasses language barriers too). This even works for things like plants (that petunia you mutter to really does know its appreciated) or insects (yelling at ants makes them experience the 'run away' pheremone). Mechanically you get bonuses to Diplomacy and Intimidate, and can always say to the DM 'I didn't actually mean it like that, let me rephrase'. Downside: It's now much harder (or even impossible) to lie.

- Your mood influences the local environment, even indoors. When you're sad, it rains. When you're happy, its sunny. When you're in a rage, the wind blows at 50mph and burning ash falls from the sky. When you're coldly angry, the temperature drops to 40 below. Downside: Your mood influences the local environment, even indoors. Concentration or Autohypnosis checks are needed to force yourself into a particular mood, with a DC that scales with your level (strength of your subconscious).

- You detach slightly from the universe, giving enemies a permanent 30% miss chance that cannot be negated by true seeing and 30% reduction of damage from AoEs. Downside: your actions have a 10% chance of missing reality. Bonus downside: They may hit some other reality, whose inhabitants may come to yours to find out whats going on.

- Your mode of motion is replaced by teleportation. You gain a teleport movement type with distance equal to your highest base movement speed. Teleporting does not draw AoOs but always requires at least a move action (or a swift action power that lets you move) Downside: Lose the ability to 5ft step.

- Your mind beholds a branching network of paths - these are possible futures. You can now ready a full round action and furthermore you can change your readied action and its trigger at any time: basically you can take your initiative at any point at or after your actual initiative as a free action, but it moves your initiative down. Downside: You are constantly distracted by possible futures, and so sometimes you think that one of the other futures is the one you're in currently. Three times per game, the DM may force you to roll a DC 20 Int check or be absolutely convinced that some offscreen element of the world is different (What do you mean, we should ally with General Thork? He slaughtered a city and even killed your mother!).

[tyckspoon]

What I asking for: please give me suggestions on some interesting and cool buffs or magical effects that would be worth more-or-less 50k gp as an item (ignore the permanency and slotlessness)

For the sake of reference, things the game already thinks are worth in the very rough area of 50k:

Permanent Freedom of Movement: 40k as a ring/+5 equivalent armor property.
Permanent Deathward: as little as 36k (+1 Soulfire armor = +6 equivalent armor.)
Displacement on command: 50k, Cloak of Displacement, probably overpriced.
Etherealness on command: 55k, Cloak of Etherealness.
Energy Resistance, one type, 20: 42000 GP flat-addon cost as an armor property. Or 44000, value 30, as a ring.
Flight speed=land speed, perfect maneuverability: 50k, Phoenix Cloak.

So you're looking at some pretty potent effects here- 50k covers broad immunities and entirely new movement modes. And do you want generally-useful effects (like, well, Flight, Freedom of Movement, and Deathward) or are you ok if a player winds up with something where he's going "well, that's neat, but what the heck is my character supposed to do with it?" which is what you'll get if you have a potion that grants, say, +4 (exotic and stackable bonus type) to Strength + the ability to Enlarge Person 3/day.. and the Wizard drinks it.

[ImperatorK]

That's the idea. Randomness.

[Salanmander]

Some ideas:

- Your speech bypasses the normal limits of communication. Anything you say, no matter how complex, is conveyed with perfect accuracy and those you speak to understand it as you intended it (bypasses language barriers too). This even works for things like plants (that petunia you mutter to really does know its appreciated) or insects (yelling at ants makes them experience the 'run away' pheremone). Mechanically you get bonuses to Diplomacy and Intimidate, and can always say to the DM 'I didn't actually mean it like that, let me rephrase'. Downside: It's now much harder (or even impossible) to lie.

- Your mood influences the local environment, even indoors. When you're sad, it rains. When you're happy, its sunny. When you're in a rage, the wind blows at 50mph and burning ash falls from the sky. When you're coldly angry, the temperature drops to 40 below. Downside: Your mood influences the local environment, even indoors. Concentration or Autohypnosis checks are needed to force yourself into a particular mood, with a DC that scales with your level (strength of your subconscious).

- You detach slightly from the universe, giving enemies a permanent 30% miss chance that cannot be negated by true seeing and 30% reduction of damage from AoEs. Downside: your actions have a 10% chance of missing reality. Bonus downside: They may hit some other reality, whose inhabitants may come to yours to find out whats going on.

- Your mode of motion is replaced by teleportation. You gain a teleport movement type with distance equal to your highest base movement speed. Teleporting does not draw AoOs but always requires at least a move action (or a swift action power that lets you move) Downside: Lose the ability to 5ft step.

- Your mind beholds a branching network of paths - these are possible futures. You can now ready a full round action and furthermore you can change your readied action and its trigger at any time: basically you can take your initiative at any point at or after your actual initiative as a free action, but it moves your initiative down. Downside: You are constantly distracted by possible futures, and so sometimes you think that one of the other futures is the one you're in currently. Three times per game, the DM may force you to roll a DC 20 Int check or be absolutely convinced that some offscreen element of the world is different (What do you mean, we should ally with General Thork? He slaughtered a city and even killed your mother!).

These are some pretty awesome ideas. I like your creativity!

[noparlpf]

One of the Dragon Magazines has a similar idea in it. One minute.

I can't find it right now, but I think it's in the 350s.

Basically, there's a fountain with two cups. One's ivory and one's iron, or something like that. If you drink from the fountain using the ivory cup, you pick your beneficial effect and roll on the table for the negative effect. The opposite happens if you drink using the iron cup. I'm not suggesting you have each potion give both a positive and a negative effect, but if you could find them, these tables could help you come up with ideas. (Or you could work that fountain or a similar one into the scene instead.)

[JaronK]

Stuff like this is what the Augery spell was made for!

Anyway, a really solid one would simply be Permanent Divine Power. Permanently gaining a few martial maneuvers along with a refresh for it might work too.

JaronK

[ImperatorK]

Stuff like this is what the Augery spell was made for!
Depends what we're talking about. I personally wouldn't mind changing into a hot babe as a side effect of becoming more charismatic. :smallwink:
BTW, JaronK, here's one of those spelling mistakes I was talking about at BG. Augury, not Augery. :smalltongue:

[JaronK]

Drat! I always get that one wrong.

JaronK

[Jack_Simth]

The thing is, I want to make the beneficial potions to be mixed with non-beneficial, cursed ones. The PCs will have to choose only 1-2 random potions, no more.
What I asking for: please give me suggestions on some interesting and cool buffs or magical effects that would be worth more-or-less 50k gp as an item (ignore the permanency and slotlessness) and also give me some ideas on curses, but not ones that will penalize PCs, only ones that will have funny or weird effects (like changing gender, or something).

Well, you can always check the Drawbacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#drawback) table for amusing minor issues - just don't use the ones that are particularly bad (alignment change for those alignment-dependent, diseases, and so on).

As for stuff worth around 50k? The Price Estimation Guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) say you're looking at a 4th level spell, usable at will as a standard action (CL 7). Look through some (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/rangerSpells.htm#fourthLevelRangerSpells) Fourth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm#fourthLevelClericSpells) level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm#fourthLevelDruidSpells) Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#fourthLevelSorcererWizard Spells) for (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/paladinSpells.htm#fourthLevelPaladinSpells) Inspiration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/bardSpells.htm#fourthLevelBardSpells).


Hm. And what if the potions would give a buff AND a curse? :smalltongue: Like for example +6 Cha but you get changed into your opposing gender and you look extraordinarily beautiful. :smallbiggrin:+6 Charisma would be 36k, normally, if it's enhancement.

Just be careful: The point of the game is fun, and you want to make sure not to squick out the target too much. Know your players when you build these.

[Rei_Jin]

Here's some ideas based on level 4 spells.

- You gain a permanent Extraordinary Freedom of Movement effect. The drawback is that if you ever stop moving (must make at least a 5ft step every round), you begin to suffocate. An additional side effect of this is that you are able to sleep whilst walking at half your base land speed.

- You are immune to all poisons, whether magical or mundane in nature. Unfortunately, this is accomplished by your body becoming an even more toxic poison. Anyone you touch must make a save or be poisoned (DM to decide on DC and effect).

- If you should ever die, you are brought back to life one round later without level loss. Unfortunately, you are brought back in a random body, as chosen from the Reincarnate spell.

- You are able to become aware of the location of any individual for whom you have a focus component (something that they own). Unfortunately, anyone who has a focus component of yours can find you the same way.

[Skaven]

Careful that you make these appear in a situation that cannot be exploited. If the players feel they can get away with (Oh I dunno) killing a single gypsy witch to get all 100 potions they choose from they may very well do so and unbalance the game. Make sure they are guarded

[noparlpf]

Careful that you make these appear in a situation that cannot be exploited. If the players feel they can get away with (Oh I dunno) killing a single gypsy witch to get all 100 potions they choose from they may very well do so and unbalance the game. Make sure they are guarded

In any game I ran, the "gypsy witch" would be a 40th level caster in both arcane and divine spells. I would even have stats for her prepared. (Also she has a hoard of undead following her wagon underground. And a contingency Gate to summon something really big and scary. Like a thirty-headed tarrasque or something. Actually probably a monster from the ELH.)

[Rei_Jin]

See, what I would do is give each of the players a "wish", with the limitation being that said wish has to be based on a level 4 or below spell from the cleric, druid, sorceror or wizard spell lists. Then once they've made their wish, I would give them the benefit, but they would find out about the drawback later when it comes up. So, for the example of the poison immunity one, they would find themselves completely immune to poison, but as soon as they touch someone else, they realise the horrible truth.

The potions that grant these wishes are lesser artifacts, there is only one dose per vial, and these potions were in the hoard of a suitably dangerous foe that hadn't gotten around to using them. Or perhaps had, and found out that a person can only ever benefit from one vial. Ever. And he or she had already used one for themselves.

That also means that they're going to need some powerful magic to identify the potions, as the normal method of ID'ing them (drinking a small amount and making a Spellcraft DC 25 check) would actually result in the imbiber being granted the next wish that they made that was in line with a level 4 or below spell effect.

EDIT: If they used Detect Magic on the potion vials, they would realise that these things are artifact level magic by being blinded, as per the rules. There are ways for them to be warned about stuff like this.

[ImperatorK]

Careful that you make these appear in a situation that cannot be exploited. If the players feel they can get away with (Oh I dunno) killing a single gypsy witch to get all 100 potions they choose from they may very well do so and unbalance the game. Make sure they are guarded
I'm not one of those DMs who will just look stupidly at my players doing stupid things. If the PCs are evil then it can happen and I will take precautions. If they're good/neutral, it won't happen, and not because I won't allow it (it's not my place to dictate how the player should roleplay his character), but because they will know that they shouldn't do it.
Also, they will get the potions as a reward from a powerful ally, so I'm not worried that they manage to kill him, even if they for some reason would make such a stupid thing.

@ Rei Jin
Yeah, I will think about changing the concept a little, but the overall idea is to give each of the PCs a permanent buff + eventually a minor drawback/curse.