VoP and artifacts

[danzibr]

So I was wanting to make a VoP Warforged Totemist (inspired in another thread) but I also really want him to someday get the artifact that gives him a pair of wings and buffet (all-you-can-eat!) attacks.

I'm thinking this doesn't work as with VoP you can't own magical items, and while artifacts are insensitive to detect magic, they're still magical. So just to double check before I seriously write up this character build... you can't have VoP and an artifact, correct?

[Halna LeGavilk]

So I was wanting to make a VoP Warforged Totemist (inspired in another thread) but I also really want him to someday get the artifact that gives him a pair of wings and buffet (all-you-can-eat!) attacks.

I'm thinking this doesn't work as with VoP you can't own magical items, and while artifacts are insensitive to detect magic, they're still magical. So just to double check before I seriously write up this character build... you can't have VoP and an artifact, correct?

Seeing as how you can't actually just buy artifacts, it doesn't matter, your DM must give them to you, so I'd check with your DM first, see what he says. Maybe the gods grant you a reprieve on your vow for such a mighty artifact or something, I dunno. Up to your DM.

But, yes, technically, as per RAW, you can't own them.

[sonofzeal]

Two rules I play with, although they may be houserules...

- Artifacts don't violate your vows.

- You CANNOT start play with an artifact. They must be earned in game.

[danzibr]

Ahh, I see. Well I thought about it a bit more. This wouldn't be something I'd start out with, but some long-term goal for my character. But when I think about it... would a person with a VoP really seek an artifact to use it? Likely not. I'll probably just scrap the idea... well, I'll still make the build, just not consider any buffet attacks.

[Yuki Akuma]

...The idea of owning a magical object of untold power kinda violates the spirit of the Vow.

Although it does violate the letter of the Vow too.

[Soranar]

As per RAW, you can't use anything that's not a simple (nonmagical) weapon or clothes. You have even have to beg companions for spell components and while a magic item can be used on your behalf (say a wand of healing) you can't use any magic item without breaking your vow (specifically includes borrowing magic items from companions.)

So no, you can't.

But remember the golden rule: the DM is god. If he says it's alright you're fine.

[Morph Bark]

The question is: how much does the artefact cost?

If you can answer it with a number greater than 0 cp, an actual number, it violates the Vow.

[Soranar]

The question is: how much does the artefact cost?

If you can answer it with a number greater than 0 cp, an actual number, it violates the Vow.

the vow never mentions a price. Any magical item period. If it's magical, it's not allowed.

[Urpriest]

That artifact sounds like it does the same thing as the Feathered Wings Fiendish Graft. Grafts aren't magical once they're applied, and they aren't exactly possessions since they're part of your body. Sure this particular one tries to turn you evil....

[Morph Bark]

That artifact sounds like it does the same thing as the Feathered Wings Fiendish Graft. Grafts aren't magical once they're applied, and they aren't exactly possessions since they're part of your body. Sure this particular one tries to turn you evil....

Ha! Genius! To really get mileage out of it you would need to be from anywhere but Eberron though, as Eberron adds some new kinds of limitations to grafts (like "only one kind", "no more than five", "you need to sacrifice X amount of hp" and stuff like that).

[Urpriest]

Ha! Genius! To really get mileage out of it you would need to be from anywhere but Eberron though, as Eberron adds some new kinds of limitations to grafts (like "only one kind", "no more than five", "you need to sacrifice X amount of hp" and stuff like that).

Dragon Magic brings that to other settings too. But really they're two completely different sorts of magic items with that just happen to have the same name. There is no reason they should interact.

[Tvtyrant]

That artifact sounds like it does the same thing as the Feathered Wings Fiendish Graft. Grafts aren't magical once they're applied, and they aren't exactly possessions since they're part of your body. Sure this particular one tries to turn you evil....

I don't think I would put grafts in the "simple" category.

[Urpriest]

I don't think I would put grafts in the "simple" category.

Natural weapons are always simple weapons, IIRC. Are you saying a VoP character can't bite things?

[Tebryn]

They also don't come cheap. So unless you somehow convince someone to surgically place demon wings on your back...oh wait...on the back of a devoutly GOOD character, so good in fact that they can shine with holy fire...the very idea is utterly ridiculous and you should deservedly get a book thrown at your head by any -sane- DM.

[Urpriest]

They also don't come cheap. So unless you somehow convince someone to surgically place demon wings on your back...oh wait...on the back of a devoutly GOOD character, so good in fact that they can shine with holy fire...the very idea is utterly ridiculous and you should deservedly get a book thrown at your head by any -sane- DM.

They're actually pretty cheap. More to the point, a Sibriex can graft them onto people for free 3/day, and can be planar-bound. Simply find your token evil teammate, persuade them OOC to subdue your character, planar bind the Sibriex, and commission the graft. Do it in such a way that your character doesn't know who did the deed (or even the import of the wings if possible). Profit.

[Tebryn]

Right, once again prompting the DM to quite fairly chuck the proverbial book at your head.

[Zeta Kai]

...The idea of owning a magical object of untold power kinda violates the spirit of the Vow.

Although it does violate the letter of the Vow too.

Agreed. It is a vow of POVERTY. As in, you are supposed to be POOR. The Mona Lisa is "priceless", but that doesn't mean that the Louvre would give it to a hobo. You're trying to reach across the entire D&D economy & claim something on the other side as your own, something that no DM should do. If you can't handle the sacrifice that the VoP is intended to provide, then maybe the BoED isn't appropriate for you.

[Morph Bark]

They're actually pretty cheap. More to the point, a Sibriex can graft them onto people for free 3/day, and can be planar-bound. Simply find your token evil teammate, persuade them OOC to subdue your character, planar bind the Sibriex, and commission the graft. Do it in such a way that your character doesn't know who did the deed (or even the import of the wings if possible). Profit.

Or use a Malconvoker. Good man subduing the evil, giving you stuff. :smallwink:

Man, now I want to play a Malconvoker like that!

[Runestar]

I see VOP as simply being an alternate source of magic gear, and would use this as a guideline when determining how said character would interact with magic items like artifacts.

If we assume artifacts are earned, and therefore outside of a player's normal WBL, then yeah, I would allow him to use it. He's already paid enough (sacrificing the use of normal magic gear in place of VOP benefits).

[Urpriest]

Or use a Malconvoker. Good man subduing the evil, giving you stuff. :smallwink:

Man, now I want to play a Malconvoker like that!

Eh, I'm not sure that the Malconvoker's Unrestricted Conjuration extends to Exalted feats...it's not just the alignment descriptor of the spell, it's the "consorting with fiends" angle.

[hamishspence]

Which is "evil, but not terribly so".

Malconvoker's class feature says "immune to alignment change caused by casting these spells"- but the acts may still qualify as evil- just not evil enough to guarantee a nongood alignment.

[Raendyn]

There is some weird function about the VOP.

You see few of the sample builds for prestige classes in BoED, have VOP and magical items too.

For example Apostle of Peace in the weapons & armor proficency sections is supposed to use ring of protection because he can't wear armor.....

[Ardantis]

Urpriest, you are an underhanded and wholly devious man for suggesting that a Vow of Poverty character get around the feat's restriction by commissioning an evil teammate OOC to bind an evil outsider to GRAFT FIENDISH WINGS TO YOUR BODY.

I am at once disgusted and incredibly impressed. You should be in the friggin' mafia.

Also that character is sweet as hell in a sort of Hellboy/John Constantine sort of way.

[tyckspoon]

There is some weird function about the VOP.

You see few of the sample builds for prestige classes in BoED, have VOP and magical items too.

For example Apostle of Peace in the weapons & armor proficency sections is supposed to use ring of protection because he can't wear armor.....

Apostle of Peace has a class feature that, had they actually written it correctly, would grant it an exception to the Poverty specifically for protective items. Since they apparently completely forgot they put 'Vow of Poverty' in the requirements, what it instead has is a restriction against wearing armor that you weren't going to wear anyway, and permission to wear protective magic stuff that you aren't going to wear anyway because it'll turn off the Vow.