Feats for a druid

[hobbitkniver]

So my druid is level 4 and has 3 feats to choose (starting at 4, he's a human). I'm looking for optimization, but if it is stupidly powerful, just give me a heads up so no one gets upset. I play in the local store with people I don't know and a lot of these people can be *******s, so its better to manage optimization. I'm not a big fan of feats to augment summoning via spells, and I'd like to wildshape a lot later on. I'm not going to multiclass or dip, so don't suggest that please.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Extend spell is a solid feat for any caster, so that is an option and depending on your sources you can expand your options a lot.

Power Attack will be great once you get your wildshape, as usually the high str forms offset the attack penalties

Don't forget Natural Spell at level 6

More options here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0)

[Talya]

Starting at 4, Natural Bond is a necessity. (Pick a level 4 druid companion with -3 druid level penalty...and lose the penalty!) Initiate of nature (good/neutral) is a great choice. Exalted Companion is decent.

[hobbitkniver]

Starting at 4, Natural Bond is a necessity. (Pick a level 4 druid companion with -3 druid level penalty...and lose the penalty!) Initiate of nature (good/neutral) is a great choice. Exalted Companion is decent.

What would be a good animal to use with this feat? I'm being a follower of Malar and I'd like a large cat if possible.

Does extend spell work with creeping cold? Thst'd be way over powered.

[Jude_H]

I'd probably go with 3 animal devotions. Both because turning into a flying crocodile is awesome and because I'm really lazy.

It's also very low paperwork, very flexible, not particularly overwhelming, legally unambiguous, and it scales nicely.

[hobbitkniver]

I'd probably go with 3 animal devotions. Both because turning into a flying crocodile is awesome and because I'm really lazy.

It's also very low paperwork, very flexible, not particularly overwhelming, legally unambiguous, and it scales nicely.

Maybe it's just me, but these don't look too great. Flying, 2 strength, or 5 extra feet of movement at this level isn't going to help too much.

[NNescio]

What would be a good animal to use with this feat? I'm being a follower of Malar and I'd like a large cat if possible.

Fleshraker dinosaur(MM III). Call him "Yoshi".

Edit: Animal Devotion isn't that useful for a feat-starved druid as most of its benefits are already easily accessible. Taking it once is flavourful and has its uses, but thrice is just way too much.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11384248&postcount=44

The best cat animal companion is the Magebred Ghost Tiger from Five Nations, but it's a (Level -6) companion. The best part about Natural Bond is the Text > Table portion of the Primary Source rules. For example, the last paragraph of the Animal Companion class feature text states:

A druid of 4th level or higher may select from alternative lists of animals. Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s druid level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character’s druid level and compare the result with the druid level entry on the table to determine the animal companion’s powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the druid’s effective level to 0 or lower, she can’t have that animal as a companion.)
Therefore, if your druid is 4th level or higher and his effective level is higher than 0 for a given companion, you can have that animal companion at your current level.

Considering that at 4th level, with a Magebred Ghost Tiger (level -6), and Natural Bond (level +3), your effective druid level is 1. Thus you should be able to have that companion at 4th level provided you've taken Natural Bond, regardless of the table's '7th Level or Higher' header for the (level -6) companions because Text > Table. It's almost as good as a Fleshraker Dinosaur (MM3), which is your best choice if your DM doesn't agree with this interpretation of the rules.

As always, you should already have used the Handle Animal skill to give it the Warbeast template from MM2.


Yes, (Lesser Rod of) Extend Spell works with Creeping Cold, and it ends up dealing 21d6 damage over six rounds.

[hobbitkniver]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11384248&postcount=44

The best cat animal companion is the Magebred Ghost Tiger from Five Nations, but it's a (Level -6) companion. The best part about Natural Bond is the Text > Table portion of the Primary Source rules. For example, the last paragraph of the Animal Companion class feature text states:

Therefore, if your druid is 4th level or higher and his effective level is higher than 0 for a given companion, you can have that animal companion at your current level.

Considering that at 4th level, with a Magebred Ghost Tiger (level -6), and Natural Bond (level +3), your effective druid level is 1. Thus you should be able to have that companion at 4th level provided you've taken Natural Bond, regardless of the table's '7th Level or Higher' header for the (level -6) companions because Text > Table. It's almost as good as a Fleshraker Dinosaur (MM3), which is your best choice if your DM doesn't agree with this interpretation of the rules.

As always, you should already have used the Handle Animal skill to give it the Warbeast template from MM2.


Yes, (Lesser Rod of) Extend Spell works with Creeping Cold, and it ends up dealing 21d6 damage over six rounds.

Does it have to be a rod? It's probably too much damage anyway, and I'd just get cussed out by strangers.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You don't have to extend it via a metamagic rod, but a Lesser Rod of Extend is only 3,000 gp, and it's extremely useful. Make Longstrider, Barkskin, Enrage Animal, Bull's Strength, etc. last twice as long, or make Creeping Cold kill something before its duration runs out.

My advice would be to show up with a variety of spells prepared, see how the rest of the group plays, and if they're fairly well optimized then go ahead and prepare a few of those after your character rests. If they like flashy effects and RP more, use (Extended) Produce Flame and cast Heat Metal on the big opponent's sword so he drops it. If there are a lot of characters who can do nothing but deal damage, focus more on crowd control effects like Entangle and Wall of Smoke and prepare a few Mass Snake's Swiftness.

In any of those cases, a Lesser Rod of Extend is going to be useful to have, and even in the mid to late levels you can still use it on Longstrider, Greater Magic Fang, and other buffs.

[hobbitkniver]

I have been planning to use snake's swiftness because we have up to 10 players each session and it's pretty useful for even small parties. Heat metal seems inferior to creeping cold in damage and this DM doesn't much let you use things creatively. For level 1, I'm probably stuck with lesser vigor and level 2 is mostly snake's swiftness mass.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Enrage Animal on your animal companion is pretty strong. Get a wooden tower shield and just duck behind it concentrating on that for the whole fight, your Fleshraker or Ghost Tiger will annihilate stuff.

[Thespianus]

Isn't the Companion Spellbound a decent feat? The normal 5' limitation on distance between the Druid and his Companion seems real tight for sharing spells, and the Companion Spellbound feat increases this to 30'.

[SleepyBadger]

Isn't the Companion Spellbound a decent feat? The normal 5' limitation on distance between the Druid and his Companion seems real tight for sharing spells, and the Companion Spellbound feat increases this to 30'.
Yes that's a good one. And if you're afraid of getting too powerful you might also consider taking Track. Your Survival skill will be immensely high anyway and this will really be of good use for the whole team.

[Talya]

I'm being a follower of Malar and I'd like a large cat if possible.


Too bad you don't want Augment Summoning. Initiate of Malar is a good feat.

[ShriekingDrake]

Starting at 4, Natural Bond is a necessity. (Pick a level 4 druid companion with -3 druid level penalty...and lose the penalty!) Initiate of nature (good/neutral) is a great choice. Exalted Companion is decent.

+1

You could also consider Vow of Poverty (which means also taking Sacred Vow), which will make you less showy with the items and make your companions happy that you aren't vying for their favorite items (though you should still take your share for donation). But this feat restricts (or enhances, based on you perspective) role-playing.

The other solid recommendations have been mentioned above.

[Ursus the Grim]

You could also consider Vow of Poverty (which means also taking Sacred Vow), which will make you less showy with the items and make your companions happy that you aren't vying for their favorite items (though you should still take your share for donation). But this feat restricts (or enhances, based on you perspective) role-playing.


Exalted Companion is decent.

As a follower of Malar, isn't it unlikely that he can actually take these feats?

[Talya]

As a follower of Malar, isn't it unlikely that he can actually take these feats?

he didn't mention Malar until after I'd posted that.

[Ursus the Grim]

he didn't mention Malar until after I'd posted that.

Yeah, I know. It was more for the purpose of highlighting it for future recommendations because Exalted Companion is normally a great idea, as per your suggestion. I also thought I could have been missing something myself.

Edit: I also wanted to make sure he was aware of the problem with Exalted Companion before he went and planned on nabbing it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fleshraker dinosaur(MM III). Call him "Yoshi".

Edit: Animal Devotion isn't that useful for a feat-starved druid as most of its benefits are already easily accessible. Taking it once is flavourful and has its uses, but thrice is just way too much.

That is an oxymoron, a druid can't be feat starved as the only "must have" feat for them is Natural spell. :smalltongue:

[Talya]

That is an oxymoron, a druid can't be feat starved as the only "must have" feat for them is Natural spell. :smalltongue:

I don't consider "Natural Spell" a must-have feat. I have proof.

(1) as a DM, BAN natural spell.
(2) Get a player to play a druid.
(3) Watch druid continue to dominate play.
(4) ???
(5) Profit.

Natural spell is very, very good. It also doesn't fundamentally change druid.
Edit-Irony: Banning natural spell makes druids feel more feat starved.

[ShriekingDrake]

Edit-Irony: Banning natural spell makes druids feel more feat starved.

:biggrin: A quote that should hit the Wall of Fame.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you are a Malarite, be sure to get the Horrid animals as soon as possible. YES you are crossing campaign settings, but they totally fit!

Also, read the druid handbook, and decide which of your three pillars you want to focus on: Spells, Wild Shape, or Animal Companion.

[Graha013]

Does it have to be a rod? It's probably too much damage anyway, and I'd just get cussed out by strangers.

Why would you get cussed out by strangers? None of these have been horribly max'd as far as optimization suggestions go. Perhaps you need a store with less verbal harassment?

[Kornilios]

Exept natural spell there are not any other great options for druid.Take some metamagic feats for spellcasting

[Gavinfoxx]

Exept natural spell there are not any other great options for druid.Take some metamagic feats for spellcasting

Eh...what? Even in Core (PHB/DMG/MM), there are some good feats for druid. The more books you add, the more good feats for druid you find. What you said is really, demonstrably false...

[Doug Lampert]

Exept natural spell there are not any other great options for druid.Take some metamagic feats for spellcasting

Eh? Without natural spell Druids are a tier 1 class. No question. They're one of the big five without ever using wildshape, there are plenty of good and even great options for a druid without natural spell.

Without natural spell they still have an animal companion. So they are still a tier-1 character with a tier-5 replacable pet.

A druid doesn't qualify for natural spell till level 5, and he doesn't get another feat at level 5 so its a level 6 option. A level 4 Druid loses nothing by removing natural spell from the game, and is still greatly overpowered as with a bit of optimization he has a pet that can rip through most "level appropriate" encounters.

Heck, if you really want to munchkin things you don't even take natural spell at level 6, you take leadership so as to minimize the level gap from the -2 to leadership score for having a companion. Natural spell comes at level 9, an extra character is >> being able to cast as a bear. For that matter wild cohort is also a fine feat for a druid, why have one bear when you can have bunches. (Because remember, the cohort you get at level 6 can also be a druid with wild cohort.)

Augment summoning is fine on a druid, but Natural Bond is better.

Druids have three different class features as strong as other entire classes, natural spell is a modest boost to one of the two weaker options.There's plenty of other great options if you want power as a druid.

[ShriekingDrake]

Exept natural spell there are not any other great options for druid.Take some metamagic feats for spellcasting

To echo what others have said, I don't think the above quote is true. The Druid, because he is so versatile, can make the most of so many feats out there. Moreover there are fantastic feats that enable even greater power like Greenbound Summoning, Augment Summoning, Rashemi Elemental Summoning, Elemental Summoning Reserve Feat, Dragon Wildshape, Exalted Wild Shape, Frozen Wild Shape, Aberration Wild Shape, etc. etc.

These feats let the druid do what he dose with so much greater power.

[Aurenthal]

Extra wild shape? 2 more uses of wild shape per day

[nightwyrm]

You know whats wrong with playing a druid and it comes time to pick a feat, there's no sense of thrill or excitement. If I was a fighter or a rogue, every feat is essential to my build and picking a wrong feat can completely gimp my character. With a druid, I can take toughness 7 times and I'd still be tier 1. :smallbiggrin:

[Talya]

You know whats wrong with playing a druid and it comes time to pick a feat, there's no sense of thrill or excitement. If I was a fighter or a rogue, every feat is essential to my build and picking a wrong feat can completely gimp my character. With a druid, I can take toughness 7 times and I'd still be tier 1. :smallbiggrin:

It's far from the most powerful, but none of the druid feats excite me as much as Natural Bond. A well chosen animal companion really completes a druid.

[Gavinfoxx]

I like Dragon Wild Shape, myself. Wild shaping into a dragon as your 'default' form is mmm-mmm fun! No need for Pearl of Speech shenanigans!

[Talya]

I like Dragon Wild Shape, myself. Wild shaping into a dragon as your 'default' form is mmm-mmm fun! No need for Pearl of Speech shenanigans!

Level 12 is usually a long wait.

[Gavinfoxx]

It's not like you don't get fun stuff until then!

[Metahuman1]

Mild op.

Improved Initiative is nice since going first is cool. And It does give you a better chance to use Wild shape at the start of a fight before a hacked off DM throws a sucker punch at you.

Natural Bond. Better Animal Companion, better Druid. More so in some builds then others.

Skill Focus Concentration: This skill can't be high enough.

[Gavinfoxx]

Like I said, if you want to focus on different things, go for different feats.

Say, for example, Wild Shape Focus:
Natural Spell
Multiattack
Frozen Wild Shape
Dragon Wild Shape
Improved Natural Attack
Exalted Wild Shape

Or Summoning Focus:
Natural Spell
Spell Focus Conjuration
Augment Summoning
Ashbound
Rashemi Elemental Summoning
Greenbound Summoning.
Beckon the Frozen
Initiate of Malar

Or "Have an army of animals with you at all times" related Feats:
Natural Bond
Initiate of Nature
Wild Cohort

Or "Be really really good at spells" related feats:
Natural Spell
Extend Spell
Energy Substitution
Ocular Spell
Persistent Spell
Quicken Spell
Gatekeeper Initiate
Greensinger Initiate
Initiate of Nature
Warden Initiate
Nightbringer Initiate

Really. Just choose your focus! Or even mix it up a little! Whatever! Also, always ALWAYS take Natural Spell, and NEVER give up your main class features.

[ShriekingDrake]

Like I said, if you want to focus on different things, go for different feats.

Say, for example, Wild Shape Focus:
Natural Spell
Multiattack
Frozen Wild Shape
Dragon Wild Shape
Improved Natural Attack
Exalted Wild Shape

Or Summoning Focus:
Natural Spell
Spell Focus Conjuration
Augment Summoning
Ashbound
Rashemi Elemental Summoning
Greenbound Summoning.
Beckon the Frozen
Initiate of Malar

Or "Have an army of animals with you at all times" related Feats:
Natural Bond
Initiate of Nature
Wild Cohort

Or "Be really really good at spells" related feats:
Natural Spell
Extend Spell
Energy Substitution
Ocular Spell
Persistent Spell
Quicken Spell
Gatekeeper Initiate
Greensinger Initiate
Initiate of Nature
Warden Initiate
Nightbringer Initiate

Really. Just choose your focus! Or even mix it up a little! Whatever! Also, always ALWAYS take Natural Spell, and NEVER give up your main class features.

Amen! It's all true.