Healing a warforged.

[Ursus the Grim]

This thread has helped me compile a few different ways to heal a Warforged more effectively. In most cases, ideal healing that isn't reliant of the Healing Subschool is only occasional, light burst healing, so ideally you'll utilize several of them as soon as available.


Vigor spells. Check with your DM. FAQ says that Warforged get no benefit from Lessor Vigor and half of the listed value for the greater vigors, but this is a point of contention. Available to both Clerics and Druids.

Craft. A warforged can be repaired overnight with a Craft check, healing (result-15) hp. Not terrible, especially if you can increase that Craft easily. Wieldskill and Guidance of the Avatar do that, giving +10 and +20 to a single check. Potions of these spells are definitely worth consideration if you can't/won't ask your cleric to prep them.

Summon a Clockwork Mender (Monster Manual IV). Not a huge boost to healing, but can help supplement other sources.

Leadership for a cohort with access to Repair Spells (or a massive Craft bonus).

Goodberry Wine. Like daily Goodberries, but a little better. Spell is from Transmutation, not Healing, so the effect is not deadened.

Second Wind (Miniature's Handbook) gives a slight heal effect.

Crusader dip or Martial Study for Crusader's Strike to heal while fighting.


Original:
So I'm playing a Warforged Barbarian (currently level 5) in a casual game with one other party member. The problem is the healing resistance. I knew going in that this would be a pain, but I failed to realize how often I would get hit. My AC is currently 15 (+1 Ring of Prot, +1 Dex, +3 Comp Plating). When I rage, it drops to 13. When I charge it drops to 11.

I get hit often, especially being the dedicated bruiser of the pair. While the +4 con and the d12 HD keep me going for a while, recovery is a huge pain. I've been using the Oils of Repair, which are okay, but really inefficient. The other party member is a Cleric, and its difficult to ask that I get all her cure spells considering they're twice as good when she uses them on herself.

If she were a druid, the Vigor spells would be the obvious answer, but right now I have no way to reliably get Repair spells. I'd like to avoid homebrewing a custom magic item, especially because my ability for cheese is infamous. But the most efficient curing for me seems pretty inaccessible.

I don't plan going Juggernaut, he's lined up for Soul Eater right now. I have no ranks in UMD and a -4 Charisma coupled with Illiteracy, so it would be difficult to pretend I was an arcane spellcaster for wands and such.

Right now my best option is looking to be buffing Craft so I can patch myself up over night, but its looking to be inferior to even the natural healing of my meatbag companion.

Any recommedations for Cleric Spells (Caster level 5) or magic items I can use? Perhaps moderately effective ways to increase my Craft bonus?

[NNescio]

S
...If she were a druid, the Vigor spells would be the obvious answer, but right now I have no way to reliably get Repair spells. I'd like to avoid homebrewing a custom magic item, especially because my ability for cheese is infamous. But the most efficient curing for me seems pretty inaccessible. ...


The Vigor line of spells are also in the Cleric's spell list.

[Tvtyrant]

I believe there is a summon from MMII or III that can heal a construct for a few HP each round. Some sort of mechanical bug that looks like a Stirge. Having the Cleric summon one of those acts like Vigor, and you can craft a few and only take them out at night to full heal yourself.

[Big Fau]

I believe there is a summon from MMII or III that can heal a construct for a few HP each round. Some sort of mechanical bug that looks like a Stirge. Having the Cleric summon one of those acts like Vigor, and you can craft a few and only take them out at night to full heal yourself.

MM4. Its one of the new Clockwork creatures.


Take a level dip into Crusader.

[Amnestic]

The Vigor line of spells are also in the Cleric's spell list.

Indeed. And Wands of Lesser Vigor are an excellent monetary investment healing wise.

[Okizruin]

Find yourself an arcane caster who knows the Repair Damage spells.

[Grendus]

A wizard/sorcerer can learn the repair line, which is a fairly efficient heal for you. An artificer has repair infusions. A Shaper has Repair Construct, though it's a second level power so a dip won't work. And of course, unlike meatbags your non-construct allies, you can chain repair yourself.

But yea, grab a wand of lesser vigor. It's as much a cleric spell as a druid spell, and fast healing bypasses the warforged's 1/2 healing reduction.

[Ursus the Grim]

The Vigor line of spells are also in the Cleric's spell list.


Indeed. And Wands of Lesser Vigor are an excellent monetary investment healing wise.

:smalleek::smallsmile::smallbiggrin:


I believe there is a summon from MMII or III that can heal a construct for a few HP each round. Some sort of mechanical bug that looks like a Stirge. Having the Cleric summon one of those acts like Vigor, and you can craft a few and only take them out at night to full heal yourself.
:smallconfused:

MM4. Its one of the new Clockwork creatures.


Take a level dip into Crusader.
:smallamused:


Find yourself an arcane caster who knows the Repair Damage spells.
:smallannoyed:

Sorry guys. I just realized that my entire reaction could be obnoxiously summed up by smilies.

I really didn't realize that the Vigor spells were available to Clerics as well. I'm probably going to pick up lesser vigor as a wand. A rather self-serving 'gift' to the cleric. Heck, she'll benefit from it too. Maybe I should lie and tell her vigor only works on constructs so I can have delicious delicious healing all to myself.

Looked up the Clockwork mender and its a bit underwhelming. The summon spells are generally reserved for something more useful, and I can't make them myself. Nor can I buy them. I'd have to emulate the two spells and use my level 6 feat. A little underwhelming when Vigor is now available again.

Not sure if I'm willing to delay my progression into the meat of my build for a level. Maybe after I pick up the energy drain.

And finding a minion to run around and patch me up? I would consider picking up Leadership next level but I think I'd rather pick up Improved Natural Attack so my Battlefist is actually comparable to my Falchion.

[Aracor]

Lesser vigor won't work. According to the FAQ, lesser vigor is halved, rounded down for warforged.

[Cog]

Lesser vigor won't work. According to the FAQ, lesser vigor is halved, rounded down for warforged.
The official FAQ is notoriously unreliable. Unlike other (healing) spells, the Vigor line doesn't have a direct numeric benefit; it provides the target with a new, temporary ability instead. You can't have "half fast healing" - you either have it or you do not.

[Ursus the Grim]

Lesser vigor won't work. According to the FAQ, lesser vigor is halved, rounded down for warforged.


The official FAQ is notoriously unreliable. Unlike other (healing) spells, the Vigor line doesn't have a direct numeric benefit; it provides the target with a new, temporary ability instead. You can't have "half fast healing" - you either have it or you do not.

I'm going to agree with Cog. Though most rolls get rounded down (of course, in direct opposite to the world of mathematics), damage and hit points have a minimum of one. The FAQ would make Lesser Vigor entirely useless, which is in opposition to Healing Resistance as presented in the primary source.

It really sounds like a case of "oh, snap we put in this spell that's better than the Cure spells and provides a workaround for the only weakness of an otherwise OP LA+0 race. Let's nerf it in a way that directly contradicts the RAW!"

Now, if they had said "the duration is halved", it might be a reasonable fix. But that's not what the FAQ said. Its another instance of Wizards fail.

Frankly, I think my DM would agree.

[marcielle]

Goodberry wine(Five Nations). Like CLW but works is actually transmutation magic. It works perfectly on constructs and is actually more efficient than CLW(sliiightly).

[Ursus the Grim]

Goodberry wine. Like CLW but works is actually transmutation magic. It works perfectly on constructs and is actually more efficient than CLW(sliiightly).

Nice find, and a good alternative if the DM shoots down the Vigor. The issue is that I can only benefit from it once a day, IIRC. But 8 guaranteed HP is nothing to sneeze at when I would normally only get about 9 from my companion's most potent Cure spell.

[noparlpf]

I homebrewed a spell for that purpose, but it's arcane.
Repair Massive Damage
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Construct touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
When laying your hand upon a construct that has at least 1 hit point remaining, you transmute its structure to repair the damage it has taken. The spell repairs 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.
Essentially an analog of Heal.

There's a nearly identical Artificer ability (Infusion? I don't know that class well.), 6th level.

If warforged heal like other constructs (I don't know warforged well either), you need an arcane caster. The Repair Damage line of spells is analogous to the Cure Wounds line of spells.

[Ursus the Grim]

I homebrewed a spell for that purpose, but it's arcane.
Repair Massive Damage
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 6
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Construct touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
When laying your hand upon a construct that has at least 1 hit point remaining, you transmute its structure to repair the damage it has taken. The spell repairs 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.
Essentially an analog of Heal.

There's a nearly identical Artificer ability (Infusion? I don't know that class well.), 6th level.

If warforged heal like other constructs (I don't know warforged well either), you need an arcane caster. The Repair Damage line of spells is analogous to the Cure Wounds line of spells.

Well the essence of the issue is that, while Repair spells are optimal, they can also be healed by spells from the (healing) subschool. But for only half effectiveness. Playing a character that gets by with a stack of HP instead of AC means a lot of healing is necessary. Naturally, despite just saving a tower full of wizards on the astral plane, none had Repair (Anything). So the DM probably isn't go throw me a bone. It will be up to me to find this healing.

And again, I have no arcane spellcaster. Its me +1, and cohorts are not coming in the near future.

[noparlpf]

Well the essence of the issue is that, while Repair spells are optimal, they can also be healed by spells from the (healing) subschool. But for only half effectiveness. Playing a character that gets by with a stack of HP instead of AC means a lot of healing is necessary. Naturally, despite just saving a tower full of wizards on the astral plane, none had Repair (Anything). So the DM probably isn't go throw me a bone. It will be up to me to find this healing.

And again, I have no arcane spellcaster. Its me +1, and cohorts are not coming in the near future.

Hmm. That's thoroughly troublesome.
Do you have any siblings? Drag one to the game and hand him/her a character sheet with a Repair specialist wizard who has lots of constructs around.
Aside from picking up an arcane caster or a UMD specialist, I'm out of ideas. I don't know constructs well enough yet.
Try picking up fast healing somewhere. I know of at least two constructs in the books that have it, so it does work for them.

[Ursus the Grim]

Hmm. That's thoroughly troublesome.
Do you have any siblings? Drag one to the game and hand him/her a character sheet with a Repair specialist wizard who has lots of constructs around.
Aside from picking up an arcane caster or a UMD specialist, I'm out of ideas. I don't know constructs well enough yet.
Try picking up fast healing somewhere. I know of at least two constructs in the books that have it, so it does work for them.

Yep.

No, no siblings. If there was anybody we could get in the games we would. This is kind of the 'side' campaign for when the main group isn't avaialble.

Vigor, in theory, from the Spell Compendium, gives Fast Healing. But its been argued that this Fast Healing is actually halved as well. So the easiest way may be out, and I suspect most sources of Fast Healing aside from that are either very difficult to get or are based on (healing) magic.

[noparlpf]

Yep.

No, no siblings. If there was anybody we could get in the games we would. This is kind of the 'side' campaign for when the main group isn't avaialble.

Vigor, in theory, from the Spell Compendium, gives Fast Healing. But its been argued that this Fast Healing is actually halved as well. So the easiest way may be out, and I suspect most sources of Fast Healing aside from that are either very difficult to get or are based on (healing) magic.

That's too bad.
Hmm. I really have no idea. I would say that Vigor should work.

[marcielle]

Nice find, and a good alternative if the DM shoots down the Vigor. The issue is that I can only benefit from it once a day, IIRC. But 8 guaranteed HP is nothing to sneeze at when I would normally only get about 9 from my companion's most potent Cure spell.

Isn't it once every 8 hours?

I remember a homunculus that could craft. Theoretically, he could repair during downtime too. Ask your DM to see how he feels about it.

[Cog]

And finding a minion to run around and patch me up? I would consider picking up Leadership next level but I think I'd rather pick up Improved Natural Attack so my Battlefist is actually comparable to my Falchion.
Assuming Leadership would actually be reasonable for your group, since you brought it up, and so not suggesting it myself...

Getting an arcanist companion could do this for you, too. Mighty Wallop and the Greater version, from Races of the Dragon, would give your Battlefist at first the same and later even better benefits than INA, in addition to the healing.

[Lordof Dorkness]

Isn't there a cleric domain for the repair spells?
If not, you could homebrew one.
But then the cleric would have domains already assigned.
hmmm...
You could look for a cleric in town with the domain, but that is likely little or no better than finding a good-willed sorcerer or wizard with repair spells.

[Ursus the Grim]

Isn't there a cleric domain for the repair spells?
If not, you could homebrew one.
But then the cleric would have domains already assigned.
hmmm...
You could look for a cleric in town with the domain, but that is likely little or no better than finding a good-willed sorcerer or wizard with repair spells.

Cleric is Death and Healing. Neither of which help that much, unfortunately. I was hoping she had Trickery or Magic for UMD, but not the case.

[Psyren]

Vigor, in theory, from the Spell Compendium, gives Fast Healing. But its been argued that this Fast Healing is actually halved as well. So the easiest way may be out, and I suspect most sources of Fast Healing aside from that are either very difficult to get or are based on (healing) magic.

Both RAW and FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070108a) agree that Warforged half-heal from the Vigor line of spells.

[Xtomjames]

I do believe the Mend spells also work on constructs.

[Amnestic]

Both RAW and FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070108a) agree that Warforged half-heal from the Vigor line of spells.

So would Lesser Vigor give a Warforged Fast Healing 0? :smallconfused:

[dextercorvia]

It says that Healing subschool spells should have half the effect. I would say that the only way for this to happen is to halve the duration (as was mentioned earlier). 0 << 1/2*15

[Ursus the Grim]

Both RAW and FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070108a) agree that Warforged half-heal from the Vigor line of spells.

I'm not arguing what the FAQ says.

However, how does one get half of Fast Healing 1? That's what RAW would mean. FAQ says half of 1 is 0, essentially. Which is plain silly. The easiest way of saying that a heal over time spell is half effective would be to halve the duration. But that's not what FAQ says. And as I previously mentioned, I think my DM will be inclined to houserule it in my favor. So I don't really know why you brought it back up. :smallconfused:

[faceroll]

I'm not arguing what the FAQ says.

However, how does one get half of Fast Healing 1? That's what RAW would mean. FAQ says half of 1 is 0, essentially. Which is plain silly. The easiest way of saying that a heal over time spell is half effective would be to halve the duration. But that's not what FAQ says. And as I previously mentioned, I think my DM will be inclined to houserule it in my favor. So I don't really know why you brought it back up. :smallconfused:

You heal an HP every other round? Essentially a halved duration.

[Ursus the Grim]

You heal an HP every other round? Essentially a halved duration.

Except a strict interpretation of RAW tells you that you round that 1/2 fast healing down. The FAQ confirms that it becomes zero per round, not half a hit point each turn.

Furthermore "essentially a halved duration" is a little off. Its a matter of Healing 1 hp each round for 5 rounds or healing 1 hp every two rounds for 11 rounds. 5 hp in 5 rounds or 5 hp in 10 rounds. Might not sound like a big difference, but thats a long time in a pinch at low levels when a rage is about to wear off.

If you're going to houserule as something as silly as Fast Healing .5 for 11 rounds, why not just houserule it to a halved duration? A lot easier to keep track of. Especially because rules get a little ambiguous if you're at "0.5" hp.

"I'm not quite dead disabled yet!"

[Big Fau]

Martial Study (Crusader's Strike), then take actual levels of Crusader after you take Soul Eater.


BTW, is there a reason you want to enter that awful PrC? The Energy Drain takes a Standard action (Su ability with no listed action to use), and the only decent ability is the Soul Slave, which will take too long to put to good use. You'd be better off with Crusader levels and reflavoring your strikes.

[faceroll]

Is standard action energy drain really that bad? Seems pretty boss.

[Ursus the Grim]

Is standard action energy drain really that bad? Seems pretty boss.

What faceroll said.

Basically, the DM has hinted that he'd judge it to be added on to the slam attack, no more than once per round. So in addition to what I would deal with a full attack, the creature would suffer -1 to all rolls and take an extra 5 hp damage. Each turn. At 7th, that doubles.

Free d6 Soul Blast.
+4 to Str and Dex.
Full BaB
All Good Saves.
Shapechange into a creature I kill.

As an example.
Level Six
Two swings with Falchion, 1 slam. Attacks at +11/+6 and +7. Assume AC 17. On an average round, I deal 2d4+7 and 2d6+5 for an average of 24 damage. Slapping a no save energy drain on that increases damage output by just over 20% and makes it easier to keep hitting, in addition to the other buffs. Once I nab Soul Strength, the +4 to Strength gives me a higher hit rate and a bit more damage.

[Big Fau]

Is standard action energy drain really that bad? Seems pretty boss.

He's a Barbarian. By the time he kills something with Energy Drain, he could have just beaten six of that same enemy into the ground.


Free d6 Soul Blast.
+4 to Str and Dex.
Full BaB
All Good Saves.
Shapechange into a creature I kill.

Soul Blast is usable 1/day and is a ranged touch attack.
+4 Str and Dex is decent. Edit: Never mind, they are Enhancement Bonuses.
Full BAB and three good saves are OK.
See above, since that really will not happen that often.

[Ursus the Grim]

He's a Barbarian. By the time he kills something with Energy Drain, he could have just beaten six of that same enemy into the ground.

Soul Blast is usable 1/day and is a ranged touch attack.

Okay. Another point to consider is this.

I have been cursed by knowledge. Every character I've played recently has been optimized to some extent. This time around I wanted to toy with a concept that sounded cool. I also recently made three different ubercharger builds, so the glass cannon that is Lion Totem/Shock Trooper/Power Attack/Leap Attack no longer appeals to me.

And that's still a free ranged touch attack (two later on) for d6/class level damage when I'd normally not have any effective ranged attacks.

[Big Fau]

I have been cursed by knowledge. Every character I've played recently has been optimized to some extent. This time around I wanted to toy with a concept that sounded cool. I also recently made three different ubercharger builds, so the glass cannon that is Lion Totem/Shock Trooper/Power Attack/Leap Attack no longer appeals to me.

Understandable



And that's still a free ranged touch attack (two later on) for d6/class level damage when I'd normally not have any effective ranged attacks.

Try thrown weapons. Those work better than an average of 35 damage.


Edit: Or you can try that really old build on Gleemax that turns you into a living Acme Anvil. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r1knpIlcV8)

[Psyren]

I'm not arguing what the FAQ says.

However, how does one get half of Fast Healing 1? That's what RAW would mean. FAQ says half of 1 is 0, essentially.

Correct. In D&D, you round down unless specifically told otherwise.

[qwert-chan]

Level Six
Two swings with Falchion, 1 slam. Attacks at +11/+6 and +7. Assume AC 17. On an average round, I deal 2d4+7 and 2d6+5 for an average of 24 damage. Slapping a no save energy drain on that increases damage output by just over 20% and makes it easier to keep hitting, in addition to the other buffs. Once I nab Soul Strength, the +4 to Strength gives me a higher hit rate and a bit more damage.

IIRC, Soul Eaters lose their weapon and armor proficiency, so no falchions for you.
And why didn't you take Adamantine body at 1st level? :smallconfused: it is one of the main reasons to play Warforged, and it seems such an obivious choice after all.

[NecroRick]

There seems to be a bunch of debate about fast healing, wherein half the participants are under the misconception that there is only one variety of fast healing.

Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium p229)
The subject gains fast healing 1

Vigor
This spell functions like lesser vigor, except as noted here and that it grants fast healing 2.

Vigor, Greater
This spell functions like lesser vigor, except as noted here and that it grants fast healing 4.


Both Vigor and Vigor, Greater are entirely capable of being divided by 2. So I see no problem with either FAQ or RAW with respect to Warforged and halved fast healing.

[Amnestic]

There seems to be a bunch of debate about fast healing, wherein half the participants are under the misconception that there is only one variety of fast healing.


Interesting that you can read minds. Or perhaps we're only talking about Lesser Vigor in particular because it's the most relevant to the topic at hand - both for the OP and Warforged healing in general?

Thanks for telling us what our "misconceptions" are though.

[faceroll]

IIRC, Soul Eaters lose their weapon and armor proficiency, so no falchions for you.

That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it just means that they don't GAIN any proficiencies.



And why didn't you take Adamantine body at 1st level? :smallconfused: it is one of the main reasons to play Warforged, and it seems such an obivious choice after all.

Yeah, that is sort of curious, given that he traded in fast movement. Soul Eater has rather heavy feat requirements, irc.

[Antonok]

Isn't there something somewhere about Warforged being able to heal witha Craft: Blacksmith check or something along those lines?

Also in the Player's Guide to Eberron theres a feat on page 151 called Overload metabolism. It allows you once per day to take a -2 penelty to Str and Dex for 10 mins but you heal 5+HD hp.

[Reluctance]

OP mentioned that, but it's (check result - 15) HP and it takes 8 hours. Outside of ranks and a masterwork tool, I'm hard pressed to think of reasonable ways to pump the check.

[noparlpf]

OP mentioned that, but it's (check result - 15) HP and it takes 8 hours. Outside of ranks and a masterwork tool, I'm hard pressed to think of reasonable ways to pump the check.

Well, there's always the +10 competence item for 10.000 gp, but at low levels that's hard to do.
Taking ranks in it is probably your best bet; then while the party (or in this case the other guy) is asleep, you fix yourself up.

[Starshade]

A spellcaster with Craft Construct could heal, using 50gp to heal 20hp.

[qwert-chan]

That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it just means that they don't GAIN any proficiencies.

hmmm.
for me, it is an overlooked way to balance a Soul Eater - the book specifically says that he is not proficient with any armor and weapons, compared to, uh, Archmage that does not GAIN any:


Archmages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

You may call it a houserule, but Soul Eaters become pretty darn powerful with armor, weapons and at-will natural attack energy drain. On the other side, without proficiencies they'll have to suck up those to-hit and armor penalties(or use equpment without them), and for me, it's called balance.
but that's just my two cents.)

[Ursus the Grim]

IIRC, Soul Eaters lose their weapon and armor proficiency, so no falchions for you.
And why didn't you take Adamantine body at 1st level? :smallconfused: it is one of the main reasons to play Warforged, and it seems such an obivious choice after all.

Thats an amusing way to look at what is most likely just a poorly worded description. I can't think of any classes that force you to lose knowledge when you enter it without specifically saying so. This, plus the fact that Barbarian proficiencies are in a current, core book with errata I think overrules a secondary book that is notoriously poorly developed.

If I lost proficiency, I think the class would specifically say "you lose proficiency with all weapons and armor". You know, like certain templates.

Adamantine Body sounds great!
Except I'd be cutting my speed from 40 feet down to 20 feet.
Taking a huge hit to my Armor Check penalties.
Delay entry into the PrC until level 7.
Restrict my max Dex to +1 (I assure you, my Dex WILL be going up)


There seems to be a bunch of debate about fast healing, wherein half the participants are under the misconception that there is only one variety of fast healing.

Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium p229)
The subject gains fast healing 1

Vigor
This spell functions like lesser vigor, except as noted here and that it grants fast healing 2.

Vigor, Greater
This spell functions like lesser vigor, except as noted here and that it grants fast healing 4.


Both Vigor and Vigor, Greater are entirely capable of being divided by 2. So I see no problem with either FAQ or RAW with respect to Warforged and halved fast healing.

Okay, since you just announced that you're more right than half the people arguing this, I guess I'm going to have to take a different route to explain why the RAW and FAQ on this sucks.

Vigor does not heal hit points.

Wait, what?

Vigor does not heal hit points. It bestows a special ability. That special ability is what heals the hit points. Thus, you're attempting to halve a special ability. The magnitude of the fast healing is irrelevant. Fast healing is considered an extraordinary special quality at a flat rate.


Yeah, that is sort of curious, given that he traded in fast movement. Soul Eater has rather heavy feat requirements, irc.
I traded in Fast Movement? Where? I specifically said I hadn't gone the Lion Totem route.

But yes, two feats required for a non-human by level 5 is both my feats.



Also in the Player's Guide to Eberron theres a feat on page 151 called Overload metabolism. It allows you once per day to take a -2 penelty to Str and Dex for 10 mins but you heal 5+HD hp.

I'll take a look at that feat. I'm a bit feat-starved, methinks (I have my sixth level feat kinda chosen already, so it would have to wait till 9, but its worth a shot, depending on the prerequisites and how those penalties and such interact with the warforged composition.


hmmm.
for me, it is an overlooked way to balance a Soul Eater - the book specifically says that he is not proficient with any armor and weapons, compared to, uh, Archmage that does not GAIN any:

You may call it a houserule, but Soul Eaters become pretty darn powerful with armor, weapons and at-will natural attack energy drain. On the other side, without proficiencies they'll have to suck up those to-hit and armor penalties(or use equpment without them), and for me, it's called balance.
but that's just my two cents.)

I think your issue is that the Soul Eater is not balanced because its been ruled that the Energy Drain applies to every succesful natural attack. I'll be the first to admit that's overkill. But deciding "you lose all your weapons and armor" isn't going to balance the builds that abuse that house rule. I mean, I play a La+0 race and the lack of armor isn't as much of a problem as you think. Physical armor can easily be replaced (Bracers of Armor, High Dex) and a creature with multiple natural attacks is going to be using them, not a manufactured weapon.

Thri-Kreen Monk comes to mind. No Reliance on Armor, Great Dex, Huge number of attacks. Heck, I'd say that your way of presenting Soul Eater only provides more incentive to break it.

Edit: How does Attack bonus suffer from no longer being proficient with manufactured weapons? The Soul Eater gimmick is that you use your natural weapons, it gets Full BaB, and heck, you have to take WF to get in. Your penalties for attacking with multiple natural attacks are far lower than attacking with multiple manufactured weapons.

[qwert-chan]

I think your issue is that the Soul Eater is not balanced because its been ruled that the Energy Drain applies to every succesful natural attack. I'll be the first to admit that's overkill. But deciding "you lose all your weapons and armor" isn't going to balance the builds that abuse that house rule. I mean, I play a La+0 race and the lack of armor isn't as much of a problem as you think. Physical armor can easily be replaced (Bracers of Armor, High Dex) and a creature with multiple natural attacks is going to be using them, not a manufactured weapon.

Hmm... okay, even though using "non-standart" methods to gain armor bonus tends to be quite expensive, I agree with you. I just forgot that you need to spend a standart action to drain a level.)
But even so, Soul eaters are quite scary.


If I lost proficiency, I think the class would specifically say "you lose proficiency with all weapons and armor". You know, like certain templates.

well, the wording is a bit ambigious... i like my interpretation more, but i agree that you are right.


Adamantine Body sounds great!
Except I'd be cutting my speed from 40 feet down to 20 feet.
Taking a huge hit to my Armor Check penalties.
Delay entry into the PrC until level 7.
Restrict my max Dex to +1 (I assure you, my Dex WILL be going up)

forgot about that. How about asking your DM to let you take Mithral Body feat later?

EDIT:


How does Attack bonus suffer from no longer being proficient with manufactured weapons?



As an example.
Level Six
Two swings with Falchion, 1 slam. Attacks at +11/+6 and +7. Assume AC 17. On an average round, I deal 2d4+7 and 2d6+5 for an average of 24 damage. Slapping a no save energy drain on that increases damage output by just over 20% and makes it easier to keep hitting, in addition to the other buffs. Once I nab Soul Strength, the +4 to Strength gives me a higher hit rate and a bit more damage.

In this case, you will suffer a -4 penalty with Falchion if you are not proficient with it. But for a previously referred Monk it is not a problem at all.)

[Ursus the Grim]

Hmm... okay, even though using "non-standart" methods to gain armor bonus tends to be quite expensive, I agree with you. I just forgot that you need to spend a standart action to drain a level.)
But even so, Soul eaters are quite scary.

well, the wording is a bit ambigious... i like my interpretation more, but i agree that you are right.

sorry, forgot about that. How about asking your DM to let you take Mithral Body feat later?

1. Yeah, thats true. But alternatives are there nonetheless, and there are plenty of builds that use light or no armor effectively. They're scary depending on the power level of the rest of the group and on DM determination. Most Barbarian builds laugh at Soul Eater (as mentioned) so its actually, I don't know, Tier 3 to Tier 2? Not game-breaking without cruel shenanigans, and a Sorcerer still has a good chance to take it out.

Then again, my opinion my change after I actually play it.

2. Not looking to be right, and if you rule that they lose proficiency in your group, that's your right. Thanks, though.

3. That would be a stretch. As mentioned, I'm probably the power gamer of the group. Whenever I ask him to make an exception to something RAW is clear on, its normally viewed (rightfully) with suspicion. I didn't take it at 1st because I had other feats that I thought were more important. I would still take those entry feats or Improved Natural Attack over Mithral Body. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Re the Edit:
Well, if I were no longer proficient with it I wouldn't use it. I'd just use my Slam attack. And my attack bonus with that would increase because it isn't a secondary weapon anymore. My Strength Bonus to damage would also go up. But I see what you meant.

[qwert-chan]

You are right, right, and... right. And thank you - now I understand Soul Eaters much better :3 =)

[Lappy9000]

Do you have a psionic manifester in your party? Psionic Repair Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm) is pretty good, and a psion other than a shaper can use their bonus feat at 5th level to grab Expanded Knowledge and learn the power.

We actually have an Eberron party with a warforged fighter whose having similar problems (the only casters are 2 rangers, a cleric, a psion, and a binder). The telepath, however, is likely gonna take psionic repair damage at 5th level.

[Ursus the Grim]

Do you have a psionic manifester in your party? Psionic Repair Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm) is pretty good, and a psion other than a shaper can use their bonus feat at 5th level to grab Expanded Knowledge and learn the power.

We actually have an Eberron party with a warforged fighter whose having similar problems (the only casters are 2 rangers, a cleric, a psion, and a binder). The telepath, however, is likely gonna take psionic repair damage at 5th level.

Nope. Cleric and a Barbarian. Honestly, we're doing pretty well for a dynamic duo, but downtime is killer and expensive right now.

Right now I'm really looking at the wand of Lesser Vigor. If the DM rules against me, he will probably be logical enough to halve the duration, essentially making it a wand of CLW over time.

[dextercorvia]

There are two cleric spells that might help with your natural repair. Wieldskill from MoF, is a 1st level cleric spell. One of its benefits is +10 to one skill. Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) is a 2nd level spell that gives a +20. They are both competence bonuses, so you can't stack them. But that is still quite a bit extra of overnight repair.

[Chilingsworth]

And finding a minion to run around and patch me up? I would consider picking up Leadership next level but I think I'd rather pick up Improved Natural Attack so my Battlefist is actually comparable to my Falchion.

Wait: You already have a decent weapon, right? So, wouldn't fixing your "OMG, I can't get healz!" problem be higher priority?

[Ursus the Grim]

There are two cleric spells that might help with your natural repair. Wieldskill from MoF, is a 1st level cleric spell. One of its benefits is +10 to one skill. Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) is a 2nd level spell that gives a +20. They are both competence bonuses, so you can't stack them. But that is still quite a bit extra of overnight repair.

These are both nice finds, thank you.

It occurs to me that a potion of Guidance of the Avatar would be a pretty good investment, practically guaranteeing me at least 20 hp overnight as a opposed to 2d8+3 (average 12) hp at a similar price.

That is, of course, if I can't convince the Cleric to sacrifice a spell slot for the cause. But I think she'd approve of sacrificing a Cure Moderate Wounds that would only heal me for 7 hp in favor of 20 hp.

Edit.


Wait: You already have a decent weapon, right? So, wouldn't fixing your "OMG, I can't get healz!" problem be higher priority?

Perhaps. But without INA my primary weapon will only be 1d8 damage, as opposed to 2d6. I suppose with my low crit multiplier and high strength, the difference in damage (some 2.5 damage per round) is kind of negligible, so I may reconsider that.

Then again, being an Evil, soul-devouring robot with a Charisma of 4 may negatively impact my options in terms of Leadership. Yeah, I'm looking at a mere 1st level Cohort (at most, 3d8+3 hp a day) if I'm lucky. If my DM decides that being "Aloof" or "Cruel" comes into play, I'm out of luck.

[Talya]

Okay, since you just announced that you're more right than half the people arguing this, I guess I'm going to have to take a different route to explain why the RAW and FAQ on this sucks.

Vigor does not heal hit points.

Wait, what?

Vigor does not heal hit points. It bestows a special ability. That special ability is what heals the hit points. Thus, you're attempting to halve a special ability. The magnitude of the fast healing is irrelevant. Fast healing is considered an extraordinary special quality at a flat rate.


Yeah, this is rather key.

You cannot grant half a special ability. You either grant it, or you don't. Fast healing 1 is not half of fast healing 2, they're different abilities. How would you grant half of blink? Drop the miss chance to 10%? No, that's stupid. How about half of mirror image? Half the figments? That's also ridiculous.

Vigor grants the "on" function of a binary logical state. You either half fast healing as stated, or you don't.

[Ursus the Grim]

Yeah, this is rather key.

You cannot grant half a special ability. You either grant it, or you don't. Fast healing 1 is not half of fast healing 2, they're different abilities. How would you grant half of blink? Drop the miss chance to 10%? No, that's stupid. How about half of mirror image? Half the figments? That's also ridiculous.

Vigor grants the "on" function of a binary logical state. You either half fast healing as stated, or you don't.

This. Unfortunately, FAQ decided that the logical 'half' of 'on' is 'off'. That 1 divided by 2 equals 0. That double 'off' is 'on'.

:smallconfused:

Thanks to Google's new algorithms, this thread and all the wonderful advice I've gotten in it is among the top ten hits for "Healing a Warforged", so I may consolidate all the options so far into the OP.

[Chilingsworth]

Since you're compiling options: There's the Second Wind feat (from Minatures Handbook,) 1/encounter, heal yourself con Mod + HD hit points. It's not a substitute for real healing, but it helps in a pinch.

[dextercorvia]

Since you're compiling options: There's the Second Wind feat (from Minatures Handbook,) 1/encounter, heal yourself con Mod + HD hit points. It's not a substitute for real healing, but it helps in a pinch.

In the MH, it is once per day, and only Max(Con Mod,1) hp.

[gbprime]

My favorite method is doing a tag team PC or a cohort. One is a Warforged with the Tomb Tainted Soul feat (Libris Mortis). The other is a Dread Necromancer.

Not only does that solve the problem, but Warforged are much creepier when they're made with bone instead of wood. :smallamused:

[faceroll]

hmmm.
for me, it is an overlooked way to balance a Soul Eater - the book specifically says that he is not proficient with any armor and weapons, compared to, uh, Archmage that does not GAIN any:

You may call it a houserule, but Soul Eaters become pretty darn powerful with armor, weapons and at-will natural attack energy drain. On the other side, without proficiencies they'll have to suck up those to-hit and armor penalties(or use equpment without them), and for me, it's called balance.
but that's just my two cents.)

If a fighter, who is proficient with armor and shields, takes a level in monk, does he lose armor and shield proficiency?

"Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields "


I traded in Fast Movement? Where? I specifically said I hadn't gone the Lion Totem route.

Weird; could have sword I read you were wolf & lion totem. Must be going crazy :smalleek:

[Ursus the Grim]

Alright, sorry it took so long but I'm kind of away from home right now. I will expand on several of the points. More suggestions are always welcome. Thanks everyone.

[Telonius]

A player in my campaign right now is in a similar situation. Fortunately there's an item from the Magic Item Compendium, "Vampiric Torc," that helps out quite a bit. 2/day, as a swift action it heals you half the damage you deal with the next attack. Great for using right before you charge or power attack, which you (as a Barbarian) are probably doing quite a bit anyway. It's keyed off Vampiric Touch, which is a Necromancy (not Conjuration:healing) effect, so you should get the full benefit. Fairly cheap, too, for the amount it could save you in healing effects.

[maestrodesigns]

There's one more option by the way: In Races of Eberron is a 3rd level Artificer/Cleric spell that's called Lesser Humanoid Essence; It effectively transforms a construct into something more humanoid for a period of round per level, during which the construct gains the full benefit of spells from the healing subschool.

[Kaje]

Be a gestalt Warforged Death Master 20 // Dread Necromancer X. Tada free healing.