Umd

[big teej]

am I reading this right?

to use a wand, you must beat a DC 20 skill check. period.

you MAY NOT take 10 on this check....

meaning..... a substantial amount of your -point and shoot- is more -point and.... oh no nothing's happened-

case in point.

I have a fighter who needs to use a wand (long story that is irrelevant)

he has 4 ranks in UMD
and + 1 int modifier.

this means I have to roll 15 or higher for the wand to activate....
correct?

this just seems rather ridiculous...
and very painful for my character concept....

I mean, sure I could change it to a rogue.... but I'm kinda banking on my high HD and all those feats for other things...

someone please tell me I'm wrong and that my fighter-bomber's guns will work more than 25% of the time....

[gorfnab]

he has 4 ranks in UMD
and + 1 int modifier.

this means I have to roll 15 or higher for the wand to activate....
correct?

UMD is Cha based. And yes you need to beat a DC 20 in order to activate wands.
Have you considered pumping you UMD through other methods. A masterwork tool of UMD will run you 50gp. A Circlet of Persuasion will run you 4500gp. Those two items right there pump your UMD check by +5. Also take a look into the feat Magic Device Attunement from Complete Mage, it will save you some headaches.

[Soranar]

First

UMD is a CHA based skill so no +1

second
the only class that can take 10 on UMD checks is a warlock

third

how did a fighter get UMD as a class skill?

finally, the only feats/abilities that affect UMD

-warlocks level 4 are the only class allowed to take 10 on a UMD check

-synergy from decipher sript and spellcraft (+2 for each if you have 5 ranks in them, a DM might negate the +2 from decipher script when using a wand)

-primordial giant template (magical knack ability gives +2 racial bonus to UMD checks)

-skill focus: UMD (feat)

-magical aptitude (another +2, feat)

-nymph's kiss (exalted feat, another +2 to all CHA based checks and 1 skillpoint per level)

-CHA bonus

note that a low level character can be optimized to use a scroll (say at level 6) that casts a spell of higher level than a wizard of the same level (so yeah, UMD is a really powerful skill)

[NamelessNPC]

well first of all, it's a CHA skill, you don't use INT.

And, yeaah, you probably won't be able to do it often

[Toliudar]

I believe that you are reading the skill correctly, although UMD is modified by Charisma, not Intelligence. But yes, unfortunately, UMD can be extremely hit and miss until the mid to high levels.

There are ways to help. With your DM's permission, you could develop a Masterwork tool for 50gp to give you a +2 competence bonus to your UMD checks.

A single level dip into cloistered cleric with the Magic domain gives you access to an extraordinary range of wandable spells without needing to make a UMD check at all.

[Big Fau]

Oh don't worry, UMDing wands is a perfectly viable tactic for a 20th level Fighter, even if you have only a 50% chance to actually do it. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80704)

In case it isn't obvious, I'm being sarcastic.

[Claudius Maximus]

the only class that can take 10 on UMD checks is a warlock

If memory serves Artificers can do this too, and Rogues and Exemplars with Skill Mastery.

[Soranar]

If memory serves Artificers can do this too, and Rogues and Exemplars with Skill Mastery.

mostly depends on your DM as the skill specifies that you can't take 10 on it (while warlock specifies you can take 10).

Since Rogue and exemplar don't specify they overrule this it's not clear whether they can or not (thus the up to your DM stand).

[big teej]

for starters, the intelligence thing was a mis-type.... I meant charisma.
honest. :smalltongue:

thankyou everyone for pointing that out.

if it was intelligence I'd have a +3 bonus.

anyways.... on to specifics.


UMD is Cha based. And yes you need to beat a DC 20 in order to activate wands.
Have you considered pumping you UMD through other methods. A masterwork tool of UMD will run you 50gp. A Circlet of Persuasion will run you 4500gp. Those two items right there pump your UMD check by +5.

the vast majority of my character's wealth is being sunk into his mount. however, the masterwork tool may be a thing I can pitch past the DM.



how did a fighter get UMD as a class skill?

-synergy from decipher sript and spellcraft (+2 for each if you have 5 ranks in them, a DM might negate the +2 from decipher script when using a wand)

-primordial giant template (magical knack ability gives +2 racial bonus to UMD checks)

-skill focus: UMD (feat)

-magical aptitude (another +2, feat)

-nymph's kiss (exalted feat, another +2 to all CHA based checks and 1 skillpoint per level)

-CHA bonus

note that a low level character can be optimized to use a scroll (say at level 6) that casts a spell of higher level than a wizard of the same level (so yeah, UMD is a really powerful skill)

I never said it was a class skill, I took it cross class.
we have a houserule that cross class' only limitation is half-normal max ranks.
not half normal AND double cost.
ick. :smallyuk:

I can put the ranks in spell craft next time I level up. an extra +2 would be awesome.

even if I had access to the template, couldn't/wouldn't take it.

skill focus - also a good idea, if I run out of "bombadier" feats, I'll nab it.

what book is magical aptitude out of? I'm not sure if I've got it.

I doubt my character qualifies for an exalted feat...

also, scrolls are irrelevant, I just need to be able to relaibly use wands of fireball and magic missle.



well first of all, it's a CHA skill, you don't use INT.

And, yeaah, you probably won't be able to do it often

yes... I mis-typed... :smallredface:

also. phooey... that sorta takes the fight out of Fighter-bomber....

[ericgrau]

Dip 1 level of wizard or sorcerer and you can use any wizard wand without making a check. Even 4th level wands. For your first level spells consider feather fall and/or true strike, since these can be cast while wearing armor. There are a couple cantrips too, though I forget which.

Otherwise there's circlet of persuasion for 4500 gp to get a +3 to your checks, skill focus for +3 and that other feat for a +2.

[NamelessNPC]

Well, you don't have money or feats to spend...Can you teach your mount to use the wand? =)

[Psyren]

mostly depends on your DM as the skill specifies that you can't take 10 on it (while warlock specifies you can take 10).

Since Rogue and exemplar don't specify they overrule this it's not clear whether they can or not (thus the up to your DM stand).

Rogues are iffy, but Artificers can explicitly take 10 on UMD just like Warlocks can.

[big teej]

Well, you don't have money or feats to spend...Can you teach your mount to use the wand? =)

a wonderful idea.... except wyverns are notoriously stupid...

[Toliudar]

Except that even with an int of 6, it's still got more skill points per hit die than your fighter, and there's no reason why UMD couldn't be a class skill for it.

[Thespianus]

Dip 1 level of wizard or sorcerer and you can use any wizard wand without making a check.
This, a hundred time this.

A Wizard dip, with the Fighter Feat variant from UA and a Abrupt Jaunt based Conjurer will be the best fighter level you ever took. ;)

[Aharon]

City of Stormreach (IIRC) has a feat that makes you immune to being frightened and lets you take ten on any one skill. Prereq is Iron Will, and it is setting and location-based. If your DM waives these restrictions, it might work for you, since you get plenty of feats as a fighter.

@circlet of persuasion and masterwork tool
IIRC, both add a competence bonus and thus don't stack. Max is +3.

[Thurbane]

Dip 1 level of wizard or sorcerer and you can use any wizard wand without making a check. Even 4th level wands. For your first level spells consider feather fall and/or true strike, since these can be cast while wearing armor. There are a couple cantrips too, though I forget which.
Better yet, dip 1 level of Cleric with the Magic Domain...that way you can use Wiz/Sorc and Cleric wands.

[gorfnab]

@circlet of persuasion and masterwork tool
IIRC, both add a competence bonus and thus don't stack. Max is +3.
Circlet of Persuasion adds a competence bonus.
A Masterwork Tool adds a circumstance bonus.
They stack.

[OracleofWuffing]

Huh, UMD is "in" again, apparently. :smallsmile: There was a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208630) a while back that was first about rerolling the natural 1s from UMD, but it has some other good stuff for the skill, Including this archived post for wand-wielding (http://web.archive.org/web/20090506193346/http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-869795).

If you can get Regional Feats in the game, Arcane Schooling, from Player's Guide to Faerun, basically lets you treat spell activation items as if you had 1 level of an arcane casting class. Sadly, that's a "must be taken at level 1" dealy.

[NecroRick]

I don't think the synergy bonus helps you at all, since it is specific to scrolls, not wands.

Though if you were to use a scroll, I recommend Divine Insight - a one-off +8 (or more) bonus to any skill. But that's more a 'big ticket' item, e.g. something a low level artificer might do if crafting an item with a hefty price-tag.

---

Oh, there's a feat that is right up your alley...

Magic Device Attunement
Benefit: If you successfully activate an item with the Use Magic Device skill, you can take a free action to attune yourself to the item. For the next 24 hours, you can activate that item without making further Use Magic Device checks. You can attune yourself to only one item at a time. If you attune yourself to a second item, the previous attunement ends.

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-1821-magic-device-attunement.html

It's from Complete Mage.

[Curmudgeon]

City of Stormreach (IIRC) has a feat that makes you immune to being frightened and lets you take ten on any one skill. Prereq is Iron Will, and it is setting and location-based. If your DM waives these restrictions, it might work for you, since you get plenty of feats as a fighter.
The Hardened Criminal feat also has an organization requirement, which in turn has a +1d6 sneak attack (or sudden strike) prerequisite.

[Cog]

The Hardened Criminal feat also has an organization requirement, which in turn has a +1d6 sneak attack (or sudden strike) prerequisite.
Though it has an explicit DM option to make it more widely available as well.

[Darrin]

the vast majority of my character's wealth is being sunk into his mount. however, the masterwork tool may be a thing I can pitch past the DM.


Buy a Pearl of Speech (600 GP, MIC p. 118) and your wyvern can activate command-word items. Talisman of the Disk (500 GP, MIC p. 188) makes a nifty "pouncing sidecar". UMD a wand... probably not happening with a Cha of 9.



skill focus - also a good idea, if I run out of "bombadier" feats, I'll nab it.


Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles gives you a +4 bonus instead of a +3. If you spend another feat on Bonus Essentia, you can pump it up to a +8 bonus.



what book is magical aptitude out of? I'm not sure if I've got it.


PHB/SRD. It's one of those "+2 bonus on two somewhat-related skills" feats, which hardly anyone ever takes.

Magical Training (Player's Guide to Faerun p. 41) might be a better option, if your DM will allow regional feats from Forgotten Realms. Gain a few cantrips, and you can activate spell-trigger items as a sorcerer or wizard.

Another way to pick up spell-trigger items (other than the Cloistered Cleric dip for the Magic domain) is the Planar Touchstone feat linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, gaining the Magic domain power. This requires 8 ranks of Knowledge: the Planes, which could be a bit of a pain for a Fighter, but you can use the planar substitution levels from the Planar Handbook to pick it up as a class skill, or another feat such as Education or Knowledge Devotion.



also. phooey... that sorta takes the fight out of Fighter-bomber....

Buy some Feather Tokens: Swan Boat or a Folding Boat. Ask your DM how much the boat weighs, X / 2000 lbs = 1d6 falling object damage (max 20d6). Unless your DM has Heroes of Battle (i.e., the aerial bombardment rules), no save.

[Curmudgeon]

Though it has an explicit DM option to make it more widely available as well.
Well, somewhat more widely available.
Members of the Bilge Rats have access to the following feats. At the DM’s option, any other Stormreach native can also take them.

[Reluctance]

If you're willing to give up heavy armor and tower shields, or at least have to spend feats to re-buy them, the generic warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#warrior) might be a better thing to rebuild into. The feats you take don't have to be from an approved list, and more importantly, you can chose your class skills. Having full progression for a skill is usually what's expected.

Throw on Skill Focus:UMD and a custom masterwork item, that's a +14. A 25% chance of outright failing still isn't ideal - let me repeat the suggestion for a one level dip in a casting class - but it's much better than things only working that one time in four.

[Aharon]

@Curmudgeon
Huh, never noted that, thanks!

But I think it doesn't really matter for the discussion at hand. I don't think that it's very likely a DM would allow a setting- and location-specific feat, and then enforce the organization prereq.

[Curmudgeon]

But I think it doesn't really matter for the discussion at hand. I don't think that it's very likely a DM would allow a setting- and location-specific feat, and then enforce the organization prereq.
Why not? That's the only way I can see doing it as a DM. If someone wants to establish the necessary background for their character to have grown up in Stormreach, that's fine. It automatically precludes all non-Stormreach regional options, of course, but I'm rarely going to forbid a rules option before level 1. I just adhere to the "one region" rule: a single character can't mix and match regional choices from different places like Bilge Rats (only in Stormreach, an Eberron city) and the Cormyr Dark Creature template (only in Faerûn).

[Psyren]

Write it into your backstory. Born in Stormreach, Ravenloft mists snatched you up, then deposited you in Faerun/Greyhawk/Sigil/wherever. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

Write it into your backstory. Born in Stormreach, Ravenloft mists snatched you up, then deposited you in Faerun/Greyhawk/Sigil/wherever. :smalltongue:
Such a back story is always paired with a front story: rocks fall on you out of a clear sky (even indoors) wherever you go. Not enough to kill you, mind ─ just enough so you're perpetually at 1 HP.

Twist the world, and the world twists back. :smallbiggrin:

[prufock]

Twist the world, and the world twists back. :smallbiggrin:

The battle cry of truenamers...

[Psyren]

The battle cry of truenamers...

Thanks a bunch, I sprayed coffee everywhere.

[Tvtyrant]

You could dip 1 Incarnate level for Mages Spectacles meld and get +4-6 to your UMD.

[dextercorvia]

You could dip 1 Incarnate level for Mages Spectacles meld and get +4-6 to your UMD.

Or just take it as a feat. It is still better than skill focus.