[3.P] Eberron - Suggested Role/Build/Opt.?

[Krazzman]

Hi folks,

I read many of your Optimization Threads and after searching there still lingers a Question in my mind so I'm searching for help by optimizing not only my character but blending in to optimize the group as well.
First of all I don't want a riddiculus Character, just one that is fun to play, that would be useful and of course would be Optimized as an effective Character (not pure Powergaming...).

The Information:
We will be starting in a tiny village in the outskirts of Khorvaire (is it spelled like that?). Our Characters will know nothing to least about the Houses. The only Church is handled by an Priest of the Holy Flame, so a Cleric would only get crude rudimentary apprenticeship.

We will be 4 or 5 Persons:
1 Elf Arcane Caster
1 ?
1 Ranger oder Brute Rogue (Rogue/Barbarian - example: Valeria from Conan the Barbarian)
1 (not sure if he will be playing in that round) Druid (probably Powergamed to the max...)
and of course me.

Races: Avaible Races will be Core Races + Eberron (and please no warforged).
Classes: The Classes we can chose from are the Pathfinder Core Book Classes (no to Inquisitors and Psions for example).
Feats: Pathfinder Core, Eberron, APG (?)
Traits: Don't know, only if a absolute must have, else please avoid them
ACF: About alternative class features I know nothing, but I think our DM is positive with them.

Now to the main problem, I first wanted to make the Party-Cleric (Cleric of Olladra(?) with the Healing and Feast Domain, but with knowing that I would only get a flat apprenticeship, i thought more about a tank/melee. So I'm searching for a Optimized Build where you don't dump Intellect (cause I don't want to play a dumb Character) that can survive as only melee and would better not be too Item-starved or would count mostly on CM like Trip. My Preference atm is for the THF-Paladin(Silver Flame of Course).

I hope you understood what I am asking for despite my english and can help me.

Have a nice day, Krazzman

[Sucrose]

APG seems to stand for Advanced Player's Guide.

Fortunately for you, the Paladin is one of the few melee classes that got reasonable bonuses from Pathfinder (not enough to make up for the loss of 3.5 splatbooks, but considerably better than 3.5 Core).

Paladins don't get much for Intelligence, but it shouldn't hurt your build to put a 10 there. In fact, putting a few additional points in there could be useful, permitting you to Ride, Diplomance, Sense Motive, and know things about religion or spells.

If Eberronian feats are open to you, I strongly recommend the Action Surge feat. It is an outstanding panic button, permitting you to save the party's bacon by abusing the action economy.

Power Attack is still a decent feat, if not the linchpin that it used to be.

Combat Reflexes and Stand Still can be rather useful, if you can bump up your Combat Maneuver bonus. If you want to use a paladinic mount, then the 3.5 basis of Mounted Combat, Ride-By-Attack, and Spirited Charge will still serve you well. These five feats can be used for a synergistic whole via the use of a lance.

All of this said, if the druid really is played to the fullest of his class's capabilities, it is quite unlikely past low levels that you will be able to keep up with him; low levels are defined as level 0 for a sufficiently well-chosen animal companion. Pathfinder did not do enough to balance spellcasting with melee, so you'll just need to accept that.

[Krazzman]

APG seems to stand for Advanced Player's Guide.

Fortunately for you, the Paladin is one of the few melee classes that got reasonable bonuses from Pathfinder (not enough to make up for the loss of 3.5 splatbooks, but considerably better than 3.5 Core).

Ok, so you recommend I should fill the missing slot with a Paladin, right? Or could another Class do it better/on the same level?



Paladins don't get much for Intelligence, but it shouldn't hurt your build to put a 10 there. In fact, putting a few additional points in there could be useful, permitting you to Ride, Diplomance, Sense Motive, and know things about religion or spells.


The 10 should just do fine.



If Eberronian feats are open to you, I strongly recommend the Action Surge feat. It is an outstanding panic button, permitting you to save the party's bacon by abusing the action economy.


Wasn't that feat just the bonus from d6 to d8 with action points? Even though, how should I use them? For LoH? Or to be sure face-fist that nasty "boss"?



Power Attack is still a decent feat, if not the linchpin that it used to be.


That was supposed to be a "no-brainer" Feat. It is recommended in most builds I read so far.



Combat Reflexes and Stand Still can be rather useful, if you can bump up your Combat Maneuver bonus. If you want to use a paladinic mount, then the 3.5 basis of Mounted Combat, Ride-By-Attack, and Spirited Charge will still serve you well. These five feats can be used for a synergistic whole via the use of a lance.


I would love to take it but think I should avoid that Mounted-Feat-Line. Said Druid took that 2 times and annoyed the DM so much...he will prepared and would counter it for sure. The Stand Still progression, I will look into that.



All of this said, if the druid really is played to the fullest of his class's capabilities, it is quite unlikely past low levels that you will be able to keep up with him; low levels are defined as level 0 for a sufficiently well-chosen animal companion. Pathfinder did not do enough to balance spellcasting with melee, so you'll just need to accept that.

The point is, I don't want to keep up, I want to be a good "Add-On" to the Party, a wanted Party member despite the mostly Lawful Stupid Alignment of the Paladin.

So I want to thank you for your Ideas, I still have some time till the round will start.

Have a nice day, Krazzman

[Diarmuid]

What level are you going to be starting at? If it's level 1, then I dont see any problem with simply having been the "apprentice" to the Cleric. It's not like your entire campaign is going to revolve around this single little town, but even if it did...going out and adventuring would be enough for you gain levels.

If it's higher level, what is the reasoning for the ability to have such a skilled martial character who would be hanging around this little podunk town that wouldnt be able to support more than an "apprentice" cleric.

I guess I dont get the limitation on you making a cleric if you want to.

[Krazzman]

What level are you going to be starting at? If it's level 1, then I dont see any problem with simply having been the "apprentice" to the Cleric. It's not like your entire campaign is going to revolve around this single little town, but even if it did...going out and adventuring would be enough for you gain levels.

If it's higher level, what is the reasoning for the ability to have such a skilled martial character who would be hanging around this little podunk town that wouldnt be able to support more than an "apprentice" cleric.

I guess I dont get the limitation on you making a cleric if you want to.

Yes, we will be starting at level 1, but the mentioned part about apprentice confused me and I want to start that char on a solid basis. Additionally I don't want to take the role of a healer anymore. Don't get me wrong, the Cleric is one of my favoured classes, but I just played them too often the last times.

Have nice Day, Krazzman

[Inferno]

could build yourself an artificer and go the melee route. you'll never be short on items, and dippigng fighter/paladin/barbarian can get you any proficiencies or whatever you might want.

[Sucrose]

Ok, so you recommend I should fill the missing slot with a Paladin, right? Or could another Class do it better/on the same level?
From what I've seen of Pathfinder, assuming that you're playing the standard heroic campaign model, Paladin is the best of the Core meleeists, save perhaps the Barbarian.



The 10 should just do fine.
Good to hear. :smallsmile:



Wasn't that feat just the bonus from d6 to d8 with action points? Even though, how should I use them? For LoH? Or to be sure face-fist that nasty "boss"?
Nope; you're thinking of Action Boost. Action Surge allows you to spend 2 action points to acquire an additional move action or standard action. What you should use it for depends on the specific situation; there will be times when an additional Lay on Hands will bring the wizard back to consciousness in time to Fireball a group of enemy mooks or try one last Save or Die. There will be other times when the enemy is going to bring all of you down unless you get an additional smiting attack or three (in which case, you obviously use it to move next to the enemy, and then use your normal actions for the round for a full attack.)

Incidentally, Lay On Hands isn't affected by action points unless you are attacking an undead with it. Lay On Hands typically doesn't require an attack roll, and action points only work on d20 rolls (typically attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks). Also, it's not available until BAB 3, so it won't be an option immediately.



That was supposed to be a "no-brainer" Feat. It is recommended in most builds I read so far.
It's handy, yes. Still, the inability to modulate it does weaken it a bit.



I would love to take it but think I should avoid that Mounted-Feat-Line. Said Druid took that 2 times and annoyed the DM so much...he will prepared and would counter it for sure. The Stand Still progression, I will look into that.

Ah, fair enough. In that case, a few other feats that you may want to look at are

Quick Draw (if your DM is fond of the Step Up feat, and you decide to make use of a reach weapon)
Unsanctioned Knowledge, which adds a little flexibility to your spell list if you choose your spells carefully, and even if not, gives access to goodies like True Strike (level 4+, requires 13+ Int)
Item creation feats, particularly Craft Magic Arms and Armor. You'll need to invest in Spellcraft for this to work, and perhaps contract the services of another spellcaster, but it'll let you get your equipment for half price, permitting substantially more powerful equipment early.
Fearless Aura and Dazing and Stunning Assault(for level 11 and up)


The point is, I don't want to keep up, I want to be a good "Add-On" to the Party, a wanted Party member despite the mostly Lawful Stupid Alignment of the Paladin.

So I want to thank you for your Ideas, I still have some time till the round will start.

Have a nice day, Krazzman
Well, I'm pretty sure that you'll manage to be relevant, at the least. That said, you don't need to act Lawful Stupid, for the most part. Tactics are not disallowed by the paladinic code, though a few dishonorable tactics are. As for the rest, just work it out with your DM to make sure that your Paladin nature won't cause party issues unless it would make complete sense for them to.

[NecroRick]

Necromancer is actually a solid fluff choice for the outskirts of civilization.

The problem with the various necro classes is that only after a ridiculous amount of time passes do you actually get the signature ability of the class. But if you start in a low tech place, then you can say "oh, well I found half of an old book that had been burned, it has given me hints of knowledge and I want to learn more, I've made a little bit of progress with my own experiments and the fragments that I have..."

Then your character goal becomes learning more and more about these dark mysteries.... (which mechanically you get simply by levelling up of course)

[Krazzman]

could build yourself an artificer and go the melee route. you'll never be short on items, and dippigng fighter/paladin/barbarian can get you any proficiencies or whatever you might want.

@Inferno
Jeah, that would probably do, but expecting our DM, I would either not have the time for doing that or the stuff I need. Additionally I personally don't like Artificers.

@NecroRick
Ok, Necromancer was an option till we were said: character not evil, evil tolerant (like the necromancer) will probably die pretty soon. Additionally being good will be to our advantage.

From what you said I just build an Human Paladin.

Level 1:
Stats:
Str-18(16+2 Human, 10); Dex-10(0); Con-14(5); Int-10(0); Wis-8(+2); Cha-15(7)

HP: 16 (Favoured Class Bonus +1)
Skillpoints: 3
Feats: Powerattack (Human)
1st Level: Toughness
Trait: Heirloom(Greatsword/Falchion[to go the crit line]), ? (if we can play with traits...)

The next feats are a bit blank to me.

Furthermore a question came up as looking into extra channel and extra loh. Under Special at Extra Channel (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#extra-channel) it is stated that Paladins that channel positive energy (every good paladin) can do LoH 4 times more per day. That would render Extra Lay on Hands useless, or do I get the feats wrong?

I hope you can again/further help me.

Have a nice Day, Krazzman