Simple 3.5 Build Advice/CharOp Thread

[mootoall]

Oy, let me tell you, creating a thread is hard work. Trust me, I know, I just did it! So I figure, why should everyone who wants to know how to optimize their Barbarian or keep their Warblade up to par with a blaster caster have to go through the same tedious process?

So I welcome you to the, what I consider to be official, Simple 3.5 Build Advice/CharOp Thread! I'd like to model it after the Q&A, with the same basic fomatting, which follows:



Do:
Label your questions with bold Q#s.
Label your answers with the bold Q# that you are responding to and/or quote the question.
Be sure that your answer is correct before you post it; if you are the least bit uncertain, just let it pass and get the next one.
Try to give your answers in as clear and straightforward terms as possible.
Feel free to quote or link to relevant rules in the SRD, Errata, or FAQ that supports your answer. (You may want to give your answer and then modify it to add support – otherwise someone else may answer while you’re assembling yours.)
Specify if your question is for a system other than D&D (the default for this thread).

Don’t:
Ask Homebrew rules questions here.
Ask trick questions or attempt to “stump the panel,” so to speak.
Answer a question that’s already been answered.
Offer contradictions, clarifications, exceptions, or extensions of prior answers unless, in your opinion, the answer give is plainly and completely wrong.
Post to debate the answers given.
Post to carry on other conversations whether tangentially related or wholly unrelated.

Dispute Resolution Procedure:
If you dispute someone’s answer – meaning that they got it wrong in a critical fashion – post your answer and suggest that the original questioner start a thread to discuss it further if they want it hashed out.
If someone disputes your answer, don’t respond. Just wait to see if the original questioner starts a new thread to discuss it.
If your question leads to a disputed answer, start a new thread if you’d like it discussed further.


Obviously some of these rules don't apply, but try to stay within those guidelines if you can.

This thread can be used for anything from "Help make my Truenamer/Samurai viable" to "My DM's campaign world needs a thrashing- what should I play?" Please, however, specify what level of optimization you are shooting for. A couple good resources are your own knowledge of your group's optimization level and JaronK's Tier system.

Please do not come in with "OMG u guise r sooooooo OP u dont play the game right" type posts. They are not appreciated.

Thanks in advance to everyone who helps out!

And now, as a wise man once said, allez optimizers!

[Keld Denar]

We've had a few of these, SchneekytheLost currently has one that might have fallen to the 2nd-3rd page or so. They tend to do well for a week or so, and then sink down into the depths of the deep dark forums where few come to visit them anymore.

Most people just make threads. That way they can keep asking questions and refine the build in a rather iterative process, so to speak.

[mootoall]

We've had a few of these, SchneekytheLost currently has one that might have fallen to the 2nd-3rd page or so. They tend to do well for a week or so, and then sink down into the depths of the deep dark forums where few come to visit them anymore.

Most people just make threads. That way they can keep asking questions and refine the build in a rather iterative process, so to speak.

Well, that one is more a "I'll prove a concept is possible within the system, while simultaneously disproving the 'Flavor matters in my build' idea." I like it quite a bit, but it also has the limitation that he's not doing "Optimize my character," but "Fulfil my concept."

And I know, I just want to see if it works as a big ol' thread.

[dextercorvia]

I'll help:

Q 1
I want a Wizard or Archivist that uses scrolls and wands (of their own creation) as a viable tactic. In other words, they never have to use a spell slot in combat. This should involve cost/time reduction. I'm assuming a Dedicated Wright as a given. What other tricks are there.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, that one is more a "I'll prove a concept is possible within the system, while simultaneously disproving the 'Flavor matters in my build' idea." I like it quite a bit, but it also has the limitation that he's not doing "Optimize my character," but "Fulfil my concept."

And I know, I just want to see if it works as a big ol' thread.

Yes, and thank you. I'll point people looking for basic optimization questions over here.


I'll help:

Q 1
I want a Wizard or Archivist that uses scrolls and wands (of their own creation) as a viable tactic. In other words, they never have to use a spell slot in combat. This should involve cost/time reduction. I'm assuming a Dedicated Wright as a given. What other tricks are there.

Sounds like you want an Artificer, actually. What's the point in playing a wizard/archivist without using your spells? And trust me, Artificers are still a T1 class.

[dextercorvia]

Artificer probably would be best. I just don't have access to that class.

[mootoall]

A 1

Firstly, we want to get rid of the XP costs, since those are such a nuisance. That's going to require some downtime, using the following trick:

(From the Cost Reducing Handbook)
Regenerating XP

There are a variety of ways to reduce xp but there is a non-super cheesy way to get a continuously regenerating xp supply. Ambrosia is a substance that can be used to replace 2 xp for crafting purposes per doseExtract Ambrosia (if I got the name right) is the spell that creates Ambrosia by using a person in continuous pleasure. The major downside to Distilled Joy is it has a casting time of 24 hours. The way to get around that is by using a Spell Clock that casts it once every 24 hours, a magic trap, or limited wish. The way to keep the person in a state of continuous pleasure is by putting the nipple ring from BoVD that turns pain to pleasure on them then putting them near a symbol of pain. For maximum effect place the subject in overlapping Manifest Zones, one providing the timeless trait and the other providing the fastest flowing time trait you can find (in Eberron's case Dal Quor). These manifest zone are created through the psionic power Anchor Plane. To get a pool of people willing to act as xp batteries you simply need to use the feats Leadership, Extra Followers, and Assemble the Horde.

Limited Wish casting of Distilled Joy or Spell Clock (160k) to make Ambrosia - BoED
Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain (8k) - BoVD
Symbol of Pain (Wiz5, 1k) - SRD
Manifest Zone - ECS
Anchor Plane - FoE

Then, grab the Extraordinary Artisan feat, to get it reduced to 75% of its already 50% cost that you're using to make them. Then the Apprentice (Craftsman) feat, to lower it to 90% of that. Apply in the most money-saving order, and you're getting ... 33% market price to craft them. I'm sure there are more reducers.

For time, a Quill of Scribing working together with you and a Dedicated Wright makes for three times the scrolls in the same amount of time. Since you already have the Exceptional Artisan feat, scribing times are reduced to 75% normal. If you're really going for a crafter, then you want a one level dip in Maester, in Complete Adventurer. The loss of a Caster Level hurts, but it gets you half the time for creating magic items.

I think that's pretty thoroughly as cost, XP and time effective as possible ... without, of course, getting into flowing time planes outside of XP regen.

[Tvtyrant]

Q 1
I want a Wizard or Archivist that uses scrolls and wands (of their own creation) as a viable tactic. In other words, they never have to use a spell slot in combat. This should involve cost/time reduction. I'm assuming a Dedicated Wright as a given. What other tricks are there.

A1

My suggestion is a little different; I suggest going into Warlock so you can make all items from both the divine and arcane lists. If you throw a single level of Incarnate on there you can boost your UMD significantly with Mages Spectacles, as well as gaining a ton of melds you can access for minor ability increases. It takes a while to get totally online, but you can take 10 on your UMDs and with a high charisma score you can UMD anything.

[dextercorvia]

RE A1

@mootoall: Is there any reason why a character couldn't take advantage of multiple quills of scribing?

@Tvtyrant: I was aware that a Warlock could make any item, but I wanted something that would start sooner.

[Amphetryon]

I'll help get this rolling. :smallsmile:

Q 2
I'd like a Gorebrute Shifter whose Gorebrute natural attack is the viable primary attack form, given the innate limitations of that attack style. He should be able to meaningfully contribute to melee combat without needing another character to buff him or needing a different weapon.

[Tvtyrant]

A2

I believe the best one for this is Psywarrior. Hustle for an extra move action allows you to orient for a charge, and Expansion allows your horns to be on a Huge frame, so they do 4d6 on a charge (they do 2d6 normally). Then using the Psywarriors feats you can get Deep Impact to make your one attack a touch attack (normally not that useful, but great in this case). Take normal charge multiplying feats and you can do tremendous damage each round.

[mootoall]

RE A1

@mootoall: Is there any reason why a character couldn't take advantage of multiple quills of scribing?

@Tvtyrant: I was aware that a Warlock could make any item, but I wanted something that would start sooner.

RE Q1

Nope. It's just a standard action activation, and it needs to be reactivated every time it finishes scribing. The only limitation is cost, which, well, you should be able to handle :smallbiggrin:


I'll help get this rolling. :smallsmile:

Q 2
I'd like a Gorebrute Shifter whose Gorebrute natural attack is the viable primary attack form, given the innate limitations of that attack style. He should be able to meaningfully contribute to melee combat without needing another character to buff him or needing a different weapon.

A 2

Hmm, definitely possible. Only usable on a charge? Well, you're going to be awfully limited at any rate, but there's no reason, besides the lack of iteratives, that you can't just make your Shifter on a standard charger chassis. Try to fit some Kensai in, if possible, to enchant your natural weapon maybe? Really the only difference between this and any other charger build is that you can really *only* charge. So some tricks to make sure you can always charge: Anklets of Translocation, for 10' teleportation (Just enough!) a few times a day (no reason you can't wear a bunch and just take off the used ones), Travel Devotion, for a Swift action move back to set yourself back up for a charge, being mounted with Ride-by-Attack ... Here, use this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358), it'll help a lot.