BARD Build Help

[McClintock]

BOOKS: Core, Completes, Races, PHII, ToB (and maybe others I cannot remember right now)
STATS: 32 Point Buy
RACE: No LA, but most anything else non-evil should work

I want to show my group that a bard is not a chump class. Is it possible within these restraints?

[Fouredged Sword]

google bardblade or bardsader. Good builds.

[gkathellar]

Oh yeah.

Without any PrCs: Bard X/Monk 1/Paladin 2 with Devoted Performer, Ascetic Mage and Snowflake Wardance for +Charisma to everything saves and AC. EDIT: No Frostburn, no Wardance.

Simplest build is Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10, but we can do better than that.

Rogue 2/Bard 6/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 works if you can swing the Druidic language requirement using Mindbender.

Ranger 9/Bard 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 9 is pretty spiffy if you're willing to lose out on some bard power.

[RaggedAngel]

Oh god, you can slaughter them.

Dragonfire Inspiration Bard/Warblade. Go Bard 4/Warblade x, and pick up Song of the White Raven at level 6. Be a Silverbrow human. Have an Int and Cha of around 14, and put everything else in Str/Con. Keep your Dex around 10-12, and wear Mithral Fullplate as soon as you can afford it (Crafting helps a lot). Pick lots of awesome White Raven strikes.

You help your entire party (+3d6 cold damage for everyone!) while being a melee powerhouse. The Warblade's d12 makes up for the Bard's sucky hit die, and you can build up some serious damage. For spells check out Inspirational Boost from the Spell Compendium, and for feats nab Song of the Heart from the Ebberon Campaign Setting (it's not setting specific).

[Amnestic]

Oh god, you can slaughter them.

Dragonfire Inspiration Bard/Warblade.

Dragon Magic isn't on his list.

Also, Silverbrow Human, while coming from Silver Dragon stock, does not grant DFI an automatic Cold effect instead of Fire. I would rule it as such for flavour (and because frankly it's a pretty small change if someone asked me to make it), but by RAW the only way to change DFI's element is by grabbing the Sorcerer-specific Dragon Heritage feat and choosing a dragon with said heritage...I think. There may be a Dragon Shaman totem dragon exception that I'm misremembering for it.

[Telonius]

Dragonfire Inspiration is out, so is Snowflake Wardance (no Frostburn).

So, how do you want to wreak ruin in your campaign - spells, melee, or diplomancy?

[Jude_H]

If you want to make a point, don't multiclass.
The Crusader or Sublime Chord probably don't need cases made.

Pick up the standard IC arsenal. Add a Crystal Echoblade (or put its enhancement on something else; whatever) and Knowledge Devotion for serious damage. That should make your melee terrifying.

Grab the Improvisation spell and Bardic Knack variants for skillmonkey cred. Glibness is also probably mandatory, since it's oddly defining for the Bard.

Melodic Casting is the Bard's Natural Spell. Take it. It lets you cast spells while singing. So do that, and use some of the Bard's nifty spells like Mirror Image, Haste, Grease, whatever.

Or just abuse Fascinate. Those DCs get silly.

[McClintock]

So, how do you want to wreak ruin in your campaign - spells, melee, or diplomancy?

In our campaigns diplomacy is run real time and our DM says no diplo checks. If you cant verbalize it, it doesn't happen. So diplomacy is out.

Spells would be cool but a Bards spell list is somewhere between a mini-batman(Robin) and useless. Is it possible to get bards more umpfh?

Melee sounds good, but I am currently a Swash/Fight/Dervish/Tempest so I don't want to be a singing version of that. I want to differentiate from my present character.

Also on point of note: we cannot use more than 2 PrCs.

[gkathellar]

Spells would be cool but a Bards spell list is somewhere between a mini-batman(Robin) and useless. Is it possible to get bards more umpfh?

Sublime Chord (CArc). Lyric Thaumaturge (CSc). Fochlucan Lyrist (CAdv). All can improve your spellcasting in different ways.

No Unearthed Arcana means no Divine Bard, unfortunately ...

[Telonius]

There are ways to crack open the list of Spells Known. One of the sneakiest is in one of your allowed sources - Shadowcraft Mage, from Races of Stone. It generally requires you to be a Gnome, but it turns your Illusion spells into practically any conjuration or evocation spell, at increasing percentages of reality. All you need is Heighten Spell. Read the "Killer Gnome/Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5638.0)" for the whole description of it. The fully optimized build requires some Faerun material, as well as the DM agreeing that Shadowcraft Mage doesn't count as the 3.5 update of Shadowcrafter. Personally I'd throw the DMG at any player who suggested that. But even without that bit of gouda on top, and using a Bard instead of a Wizard, it can turn you into an extremely versatile caster.

[Kenneth]

actually out performing you allies as a bard is extremely easy. for me the goal is not to out damage or out awesome somebody in combat its to do this " slide in tot he bad guys doulbe point at them and say 'heyyyy' all fonzy like.

at level 5 my bard got +18 to his diplomacy( and that is not even having a 18 cha) so he basically auto wins most of his diplomacy checks. ohs nap what is that a (insert evil creautre wanting to kill you here) BAMMO he/she/it is now the bards friend. and when the party member realize that i just won the battle by being too cool for school, well. its fun.

also.. this is 100% doable by PHB alone. and not anything even close to optimizing his skills or what not ( my skill focus feat went to perform sing, etc) with magical items and my feat spent the right way I would have a +26-ish to diplomacy, something that is pretty darn scary as well as a 2nd try at half that amnt (+13) if i fail.


though if you want to turn you bard into a mini mage or what not, you can follow the other peoples advice. its good advice as well.

[Optimator]

Do Bard 9 Virtuoso 1 Sublime Chord 2 Virtuoso 8. With good spell selection you'll do quite well and retain most of the Bard flavor. Choose buffing spells and boost IC as much as you can do (Inspirational Boost, Badge of Valor [use the Badge of Valor after Inspirational Boost since it's an immediate action--taking your next turn's swift action] perhaps song of the heart if you have room--if the Eberron book turns out to be allowed.

[gorfnab]

Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
Bard 6/ Lyric Thaumaturge 2/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8
Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar 3
Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3

[Cog]

...use the Badge of Valor after Inspirational Boost since it's an immediate action--taking your next turn's swift action...
It doesn't quite work like that:

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn.
You'll have to wait until your turn passes to get access to an immediate action again, so it'll be the next turn before you get to activate your music.

[Coidzor]

the DM agreeing that Shadowcraft Mage doesn't count as the 3.5 update of Shadowcrafter.

Does it say that Shadowcraft Mage updates and replaces Shadowcrafter? Because otherwise that's not requiring a DM ruling, that's just RAw.

OP: No web or SRD material then? Or do those fall under the area of uncertainty/forgot to be mentioned?

[Rei_Jin]

Pure classed Bard.

Take a Human. Half-elf is good for Diplomancer builds, but you said that won't work for your game.

Basically, what you need to do is get as much oomph out of your Bardsong as possible. It's honestly the thing that makes bards so awesome in core. Then with your spells, you pick flexible things like Silence (yes, a bard with Silence can work brilliantly), Alter Self, and so on.

You should have access to the Spell Compendium, as a lot of the spells in it are in the Complete series. If so, then Inspirational Boost is a must (level 1, increases Inspire Courage bonuses by 1). Tactical Precision is like a force multiplier for Inspire Courage... you need to work this guy as a team player in a way that other classes just can't compare to.

A Bard does their damage through their allies. If you're worried about contributing, consider using a Bow of Songs and taking the feat Extra Music. You don't need to do melee damage, and honestly, you're better off focussing on your singing or your spellcasting with your actions. If you end up with spare actions, fire a bow and make witty repartee.

Bard is, without a doubt, my favourite class in D&D.

[Amnestic]

You'll have to wait until your turn passes to get access to an immediate action again, so it'll be the next turn before you get to activate your music.

Not quite



If you have the Bardic Music ability to inspire courage, you can activate the badge of valour to increase the bonus granted by that ability by 1 for the duration of that effect.

Which means that you can apply the bonus to an already active Bardic Music. So you go Inspirational Boost->Inspire Courage->(Wait until you have another immediate/swift action)->Badge of Valour.

[ZeroGear]

If I may, you are all focussing on a bard that uses spells, while one can just as easily stand toe-to-toe with a fighter in melée. One thing to remember is that bardic music can affect you too, and that perform (sing) gets rid of the need for an instrument. Try focusing on spells that are more useful outside of melee or have no somatic components.
Most of all, if you have a decent strength score, try to note two things: longswords edam more damage than rapiers and shields are your friend!
You may not be an absolute front-line fighter, but you are nearly as good.

For this I would recommend going for either the Seeker of the Song or Warchanter, as both have the Combine Songs ability. This is where goals come in: a Seeker build is a close-mid range combatant. He has a lower base attack bonus but the Rapture in the Song really boosts potential and the refrain abilities a great for blasting. Warchanter, on the other hand, is suited more for front lines, and would benefit greatly from an investment in medium armor proficientcy. In either case, since you are giving up future spell progression, use spells that help you at any level: Weapon Shift, Master's Touch, and Cat's Grace are some I can think of. The Battle Dancer feat helps Watchanters while Extra Music is good for Seekers.

I ran a Warchanter once, and he took out nearly as many baddies as out ranger (and we had almost the same stats). I said it before and I will say it again: shields are very helpful allies, do not underestimate their value.

[KitTheOdd]

Not hard core optimized, but my Bard 4/Warblade 6/Jade Phoenix Mage 5/Warblade kicked some serious butt.

Of course, he was only 1/5 bard, but Song of the White Raven to stack Warblade for Inspire Courage and JPM to improve spell casting meant he felt a lot more bardish. While curb stomping his foes.

[Socratov]

I support the motion for a bard 9/virtuoso 1/sub. chord 2/virtuoso 8, take song of the heart, lingering song, inspirational boost spell, words of creation, whine against the DM for dragon magazine to be allowed so you can take focused performance and focused performer, any item that increases your inspire courage ability. activate items when due (don't know so many of them, so you will need to figure that out for yourself) rotation will be (without the items): inspirational boost->inspire courage (apply lingering song, song of the heart and words of creation and focused performance's individual performance and harmony, in that order) now say you have inspire courage+3:

2*(1+2*3+1)= 16 morale bonus on 2 targets on to hit, weapon damage and on savingthrows against charm and fear effects. Inspire courage lasts for 5 rounds after you stop playing, but with lingering song you can extend the effect for a further 5 rounds. You will be able to do this when lvl 16 (need a 14 lvl bard for inspire courage +3, but with 2 levels of sublime chord it becomes lvl 16, fortunately you need 5 feats, so minimum level is 15 anyway). Now assume you got a party fighter/barbarian who is ppowerattacking like a madman, he's obviosly lvl 16 too. He can now powerattack for free all his 16 bab away, without actually losing to-hit (at least,the to-hit he generates for himself). Undoubtably items will be able to enhance the inspire courage bonus :smallamused:

tl:dr

step1: inspirationalboost->inspirecourage(apply feats)
step2: buff 2 powerattackers
step3: lean back while the powerattackers slaughter everything
step4: PROFIT!

edit: as a bonus (by focused performer, the feat you need as prereq.) you can use perform checks instead of concentration spells to maintain spells with verbal components, you cast from the bard spellist :smallbiggrin:

also, I think I have the stacking rules correctly... if not the bonus will be even more :)

edit#2: tweaked build a bit, last level of virtuoso isnt actually neccesary, since at lvl 20 everyone should have true seeïng anyway (or at least some variant on it), so revelaing song isn't that important. however, thsi way you still get 9th level spells and great insipre courage, and still ahve song of arcane power :smallbiggrin:

sadly you won't get inspire courage +4 before epic levels...:smallfrown:

[Talya]

You may be missing most of my favorite bard tricks. However, they're spelled out here, just in case:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209564

[Socratov]

ehm... sublime chord gives acces to the wizard list, and with acces to the wizard list you don't need attacks (unless you take ranged touch attacks, but hey, they are touchattacks so you are less bothered by AC :smallsmile: ) If you follow the afore emntioned build, you need 2 rounds to prepare buffing your allies, and then have 10 rounds to cast and perform your heart out :smallyuk: However, by the time those 10 rounds are over most combats (not all, but most) will be over... And with those badges of valour you can turn those powerattackers into a pair of frenzied butchers. Assuming they are barbarians, have str items(presumably +6), and at lest have a base stat of 16 in str they would have (at lvl 16): 16+4(ab. score increase)+6=26 without raging, with raging they will have 26+6=32 str, which gives a modifier of +11 without powerattack they will have a damage(assume 2handed weapon) of weapon+enhancementbonus+16, now the bard is singing/has sung, and you go hack a ful round attack. assume that out of 4 attacks you will hit with 2 of them you get on 16 bab: weapondmgdie+enhancementbonus+11+2*16=w.dmg.die+en h.bon+43. this happens on 2 attacks, so without crits you will gain 64 dmg for free (inspire courage bonus is completely powerattacked away, but that's all, you will still have a to-hit of d20+16+11+weap.enh.bonus+misc.mod= autohit on a an AC of (say you roll 2 on a d20) 29+weap.enh.bonus+misc.mod for the first attack, and 24+weap.enh.bonus+misc. on your secondairy attack. Get 2 of those, mix in with 4th through 7th level wizard spells, impromptu cast (wands of metamagic anyone?) and pwnage is served.

also, badge of valor (or at least the complete adventurer version) doesn't increase the inspire courage bonus, it merely gives a morale bonus against fear which stacks with palldin's aura of courage and the bard's inspire courage. it also gives a +4 on level checks opposing intimidate effects.