Greater Restoration: "How can you tell who's sane and who's insane?"

[Aquillion]

This came up in another thread, where I advised someone to have their character use Greater Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationGreater.htm) as a way of dealing with a crazy-clingy girlfriend:

Greater restoration also dispels all magical effects penalizing the creature’s abilities, cures all temporary ability damage, and restores all points permanently drained from all ability scores. It also eliminates fatigue and exhaustion, and removes all forms of insanity, confusion, and similar mental effects. Greater restoration does not restore levels or Constitution points lost due to death.
That got me thinking, though. Sanity isn't something so clear-cut, is it? I mean, what one society calls sane and proper, another might consider stark raving mad.

How does the Greater Restoration spell determine what's sane and what's insane? Can I play a priest of a god who -- from the perspective of everyone else in the setting -- is stark raving mad, but who, from my and my god's perspective, is the only sane person in the setting? Can I then use Greater Restoration to convert others to my own mental state, "curing" them of the insanity of following other systems?

"Clearly, by the mental health paradigm established by my deity, your refusal to give me everything you own is a sign of deep mental illness. Greater Restoration! There, do you feel better now?"

(Note that as a practical matter, this isn't actually very exploitable, as Greater Restoration allows a will save to resist, costs 500 XP, and has a 10-minute casting time. But I thought it was funny.)

[herrhauptmann]

For insanity, it probably looks for things caused by spells and other ingame effects.
Spells, poisons, taint, 'save vs horror,' stuff like that.
Obsessions aren't insanity, at least as the game treats it. Obsessions are instead called 'plot hooks'.

[Shadow Lord]

It defines it as All kinds of insanity, instead of specify Insanity, implying it cures the lack of sanity, from the caster's perspective.

[gallagher]

as far as i can tell, the only ones you can guarantee have some form of insanity are clerics of Fharlanghn (the worst spelled name in all of DnD)

that and elves. half elves are half insane, so you can cure two of them at the same time

[Big Fau]

Adventuring Rule 6: Your party is insane. No exceptions. Who else would fight a Dragon?

[ericgrau]

I think it means insanity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/insanity.htm) as in continuous confusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused)

[Bob the DM]

Adventuring Rule 6: Your party is insane. No exceptions. Who else would fight a Dragon?

I like that, are there more "Adventuring rules"?

[daemonaetea]

This thread now has me thinking of an evil empire where the church that rules it uses Greater Restoration to "cure" those that oppose it. After all, only a madman would oppose the empire.

[Steward]

I really don't think that you should interpret that spell to be able to completely modify someone's personality. I think what was intended was to dispel confusion effects or spells / injuries that cause (or simulate, I guess) permanent brain damage -- similar to what ericgrau said.

That being said, you could interpret it as a brainwashing spell as long as it's cool.

[Aquillion]

Adventuring Rule 6: Your party is insane. No exceptions. Who else would fight a Dragon?This is the most potentially amusing answer.

WIZARD: Dammit! Dammit! The fighter failed his will save against that mind-breaking attack, and we still need someone to charge in against the dragon! Cleric, heal him!

FIGHTER: The color blue tastes delicious! Up is down and down is up! I am the lizard ki--

CLERIC: Greater Restoration!

FIGHTER: --ng. Hey, wait, what's going on? What was I saying? What am I doing...? Am I actually carrying thousands upon thousands of GP worth of equipment and using it to risk my life in fights? Screw that. I'm going to take my loot, retire to a little farm somewhere, a--

WIZARD: Insanity.

FIGHTER: --nd that dragon is going down now. CHARGE!

[Big Fau]

I like that, are there more "Adventuring rules"?

Scattered here and there. There really wasn't a compiled list.

[Cerlis]

there is a difference between percieved insanity and actual insanity. the second is actual brain and mind damage/trauma resulting in the behavior. you restor the mind back to what it was.

percieved insanity shouldnt be affected. this would actually be a good plot point. like how in avatar, Toph found out that that dude was reeducated because she could tell he believed what he said, if a church decides to try to cure the sanity of a mad man saying the gods are being eaten and the apocolypse is nigh, and it doesnt work...it means either their magic failed....or he isnt insane which means the world is *ucked. Could also be a plot devise to get one to doupt his own church. If his dictom is Right and those who oppose it are insane or corrupt...then why arent they cured. Maybe its because his dictom isnt correct?


though it WOULD be interesting in a world where you could cure people of the casters percieved insanity. basically a lower level mind rape.




-----------------

This thread now has me thinking of an evil empire where the church that rules it uses Greater Restoration to "cure" those that oppose it. After all, only a madman would oppose the empire.

Persian Diplomat: But this is madness!
Spartan: NO! THIS....IS....SPAR-
Persian Diplomat: *casts touch spell* There all better. Now buy me a soda?
Spartan: It would be my honor.

[JaronK]

Like good and evil, sanity and insanity are hard defined concepts in D&D, unlike in reality. This is why something like Storm Tears (BoED) can just straight up cure insanity when you drink them.

Frankly, I find it hilarious to sneak a vial of those into my equipment, and REALLY screw with some plotlines that involve an insane king/necromancer/god.

JaronK

[Divide by Zero]

It defines it as All kinds of insanity, instead of specify Insanity, implying it cures the lack of sanity, from the caster's perspective.

You're reading it as "(all forms of insanity), confusion, and similar mental effects," while I'm reading it as "all forms of (insanity, confusion, and similar mental effects)." Given that insanity is a specifically defined mechanical term, I think the latter makes much more sense.

[Aquillion]

I think it means insanity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/insanity.htm) as in continuous confusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused)
Wait a minute, I never really thought about that before, but the Insanity spell acts weird. Consider what confusion actually does: Each turn, you roll on this table to see how your character acts.


01-10 Attack caster with melee or ranged weapons (or close with caster if attack is not possible).
11-20 Act normally.
21-50 Do nothing but babble incoherently.
51-70 Flee away from caster at top possible speed.
71-100 Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject’s self).
So... does that mean that if I hit someone with Insanity, for the rest of their life they're going to spend 10% of their actions trying to attack or close with me, and 20% fleeing from me, no matter where I am at the time?

Obviously, sometimes this will just make them babble incoherently, but whenever they hear about my location, they're going to have to try and move towards or away from me on those rolls, even if I'm thousands of miles away, right?

(What if they're capable of teleporting...?)

[Betropper]

I always go with whatever their god defines as insane. So it would vary depending on the god supplying the spell.

Ex. An actually insane evil caster would cast greater restoration if he had a PC that wouldn't cooperate on the grounds that his god thinks that all should follow him. This could probably be abused though.

[noparlpf]

This came up in another thread, where I advised someone to have their character use Greater Restoration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationGreater.htm) as a way of dealing with a crazy-clingy girlfriend:

You just made my day.

Anyway, on-topic. I'm pretty sure Greater Restoration's definition of "insanity" is an altered mental state with respect to the target's ordinary mental state.

[ffone]

Wait a minute, I never really thought about that before, but the Insanity spell acts weird. Consider what confusion actually does: Each turn, you roll on this table to see how your character acts.


So... does that mean that if I hit someone with Insanity, for the rest of their life they're going to spend 10% of their actions trying to attack or close with me, and 20% fleeing from me, no matter where I am at the time?

Obviously, sometimes this will just make them babble incoherently, but whenever they hear about my location, they're going to have to try and move towards or away from me on those rolls, even if I'm thousands of miles away, right?

(What if they're capable of teleporting...?)

Huh. Someone earlier in the thread was wondering whether obsession could be considered a type of insanity...sounds like the Insanity spell can be considered a type of obsession!

[hewhosaysfish]

If my character's god choose to "define" the humanoid form as having the spine sticking out the top of the head like an aerial... can my character go around casting heal on people to make their spine shoot up and out through their skull? If he "believes" that humanoids have 8 arms can he use regenerate to grow back the ones he's "missing"?