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Runestar
2011-07-29, 06:17 PM
Just curious if anyone has tried building an npc or foe around this concept?

My interest was stoked when I noticed this spell in dragons of eberron.

Strength of the true form (sorc1/1 immediate action/1 round duration), lets you use the higher of your physical stats, NA and dr for the duration of the spell.

Normally, this spell isn't very useful because of the short duration, but being personal range, it can be persisted, meaning a dragon capable of casting 7th lv spells (or lower with the right metamagic-reducing feats) could effectively stay in human form 24/7, yet still enjoy the key physical benefits of his dragon form.

Then for dragons without alternate form, there is also a feat which grants them this 3/day, so this concept could be applied to any dragon.

Let's take a very old red dragon with 1 lv in sorc. What would the cr be if he fought in human form? He would still have 31 dragon HD, base str of 37 (up to 42 with the elite array), +30NA, dr15/magic (negligible) and on top of this, be able to make better use of armour/weapons yet still enjoy sorc14 spellcasting (possibly in the form of buffs/support - arcane spellsurge would let him full-attack and cast 1 spell each round).

Would such a foe be gimping himself (it is a cr22 on paper), or can he still be optimised to prove a decent challenge?

Of course, he will need some way of protecting him from dispels. Practiced spellcaster can boost his caster lv to 18, ring of enduring arcana adds another 4, so he stands a pretty good chance of resisting, IMO. This also works double duty on personal buffs like greater heroism, Alternatively, the tenacious magic epic feat (ELH) lets the spell come back after 1d4 rounds.

Now, what I am interested in are abilities which let him use his other dragon abilities in human form. Any way of unleashing his breath weapon or frightful presence? Then the metabreath-feats/spells in draconomicon would come in very handy. :smallamused:

Any other suggestions on how to improve and take this concept further? Who needs gishes? :smalltongue:

Runestar
2011-07-29, 09:16 PM
Let's take a look at a sample red dragon in human form.

Assume very old red dragon sorc 1 with elite array.

Str: 42 (base15+1stat+26racial)
Dex: 10
Con: 30 (base14+16racial)
Int: 24 (12+12)
Wis: 20 (base8+12)
Cha: 25 (13+12)

Hp: 524 (31d12+1d4+320)
Attack +52/+47/+42/+37 (+31bab+16str+5weapon)
AC: 40 (Base10+30NA)
Saves: Fort+28/Ref+18/+23

Of course, these are just the base stats, and can be further boosted. Steadfast determination to add +5 will saves, insightful reflexes for +7 reflex saves, persistent divine favor for +3 attack/damage, magic gear can further improve AC/saves...

His familiar would be quite scary at well, with 270hp and +31bab...:smallamused:

Watcha think?

Coidzor
2011-07-30, 01:17 AM
There's a feat which lets you use the half-dragon template on any form you take with alternate form as a dragon, and Steel Dragons can turn into any Small or Medium Humanoid or Animal form with their alternate form, IIRC.

Not sure how that interacts with this spell though, as it might be that half-dragon's benefits would just get replaced by the spell's effect.

Alleran
2011-07-30, 01:58 AM
There's a feat which lets you use the half-dragon template on any form you take with alternate form as a dragon, and Steel Dragons can turn into any Small or Medium Humanoid or Animal form with their alternate form, IIRC.
It's the Half-Dragon form feat, found in Dragons of Eberron. The same page has a "Hidden Strength" feat, with gives you +8 STR and +4 CON in your alternate form (no matter what it is). If you combine both of those feats, you can get the half-dragon template and the strength boost (though your total STR and CON can't exceed the STR and CON of your draconic form).

NikitaDarkstar
2011-07-30, 02:34 AM
Well for the breath weapon you could argue that a dragon clearly has Draconic Heritage by default, and with one level in sorc he should qualify for the Draconic breath feat?

And I can't find the Half-dragon form feat right now, but if it lets you apply half-dragon template to anytihng you change into, then you get a breath weapon a few times a day, which means you can take the Dragon Breath feat and have it work as normal.

Alleran
2011-07-30, 02:41 AM
And I can't find the Half-dragon form feat right now, but if it lets you apply half-dragon template to anytihng you change into, then you get a breath weapon a few times a day, which means you can take the Dragon Breath feat and have it work as normal.
Dragons of Eberron, page 15.

Hazzardevil
2011-07-30, 02:59 AM
I reckon that a this Dragon in Human form could easily pretend to be a Dragonfire Adept in the party and as long as you don't say that I cast fireball, he could easily get away with it, thus making it reasnable for your dragon to know the tactics pf the party for the big fight.

NikitaDarkstar
2011-07-30, 03:36 AM
Dragons of Eberron, page 15.
Yhea, sorry I was unclear before, I can't find it cause I don't have the book, and couldn't find the feat on my go-to website for D&D feats. (Has almost all, this really is the first time it failed me.) So yhea, if I'm off on something my bad. :p

TwylyghT
2011-07-30, 06:33 AM
Just imagine the "I need a change of pants" moment when your facing a human foe, realize he so strong he must be buffed, manage to hit him with a dispel, and he turns into a massive dragon lol.

CHANGE IT BACK! CHANGE IT BACK!

Threshold77
2013-07-25, 07:36 PM
I want to start playing D&D and i was wondering if anyone could tell me how to play a young dragon in human form.

much appreciated help.

Erik Vale
2013-07-25, 07:45 PM
Just imagine the "I need a change of pants" moment when your facing a human foe, realize he so strong he must be buffed, manage to hit him with a dispel, and he turns into a massive dragon lol.

CHANGE IT BACK! CHANGE IT BACK!

Ok, someone needs to try this, just to record the players reaction when they succesful in dispelling it.