Optimized Rocking

[ScrambledBrains]

(Inspired by this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208993) thread.)

My past few threads on this delightful forum has usually revolved around taking a famous fictional character and remaking them in terms of 3.5 rules, tools, and abilities, which if nothing else showcases how much of a dork I am. :smallbiggrin:

This is not such a thread however. This is instead a thread to help with a matter of PO for my next campaign(which I will hopefully play in this fall, assuming my college group is still meeting.), as I have found the build I want to run, as seen below.

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8

I'm looking for four specific things as suggestions:

Feats: Any that would interact well with Bardic Music and/or casting or a high charisma(as that will probably be my main pump stat. :smallcool:)

Spells: What's the best for the spell lists I'll have access to?

Ways to max Perform, Concentration, and Spellcraft: Self-explainatory :smallbiggrin:

And finally, any other random things that any of you wise playgrounders feel would gel with this build.

I have access to a good amount of the books, but not all of them, so assume all usable for now and I'll parse out the things I can't show to my DM.

[Morithias]

(Inspired by this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208993) thread.)

My past few threads on this delightful forum has usually revolved around taking a famous fictional character and remaking them in terms of 3.5 rules, tools, and abilities, which if nothing else showcases how much of a dork I am. :smallbiggrin:

This is not such a thread however. This is instead a thread to help with a matter of PO for my next campaign(which I will hopefully play in this fall, assuming my college group is still meeting.), as I have found the build I want to run, as seen below.

Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso +8

I'm looking for four specific things as suggestions:

Feats: Any that would interact well with Bardic Music and/or casting or a high charisma(as that will probably be my main pump stat. :smallcool:)

Spells: What's the best for the spell lists I'll have access to?

Ways to max Perform, Concentration, and Spellcraft: Self-explainatory :smallbiggrin:

And finally, any other random things that any of you wise playgrounders feel would gel with this build.

I have access to a good amount of the books, but not all of them, so assume all usable for now and I'll parse out the things I can't show to my DM.

I was half-expecting a hulking hurler build in this thread XD

I would go with perform (outary) or however you spell it (public speaking) that and maybe if you have a skill point to spend (dance) the first lets you use it while tied up, the second while silenced. Take your pick.

[ScrambledBrains]

I was half-expecting a hulking hurler build in this thread XD

I would go with perform (outary) or however you spell it (public speaking) that and maybe if you have a skill point to spend (dance) the first lets you use it while tied up, the second while silenced. Take your pick.

XD Sorry to disappoint.

Hmmm, good ideas. The issue with that is that I believe Sublime Chord requires Perform(Music). :smallfrown:

[Jude_H]

Just looking at some feats:

Melodic Casting is mandatory for any Bard who wants to sing and perform. It lets you do both simultaneously, and lets you use Perform checks for concentration. MC is in Complete Mage.

I'm sure someone's already ninjaed me with the Inspire Courage handbook link, so I'll skip that.

The Haunting Melody and Doomspeak feats are useful debuffs which I believe can be applied simultaneous to your casting, if you use MC. The prior applies the shaken condition on all listeners, the latter puts a flat -10 penalty on basically everything the recipient does for a round (including saves). HM is from Eberron Campaign setting, DS is in Champions of Ruin.

And I can't remember... doesn't Virtuoso require Skill Focus? You can get that from the Heward's Hall magical location for a few gp (complete scoundrel?). It probably wouldn't hurt to pick up regardless, for concentration bonuses, song DCs, etc.

edit:
Whoa. Nobody beat me to it. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0)'s the handbook link.

[Worlok]

I would go with perform (outary) or however you spell it (public speaking) that and maybe if you have a skill point to spend (dance) the first lets you use it while tied up, the second while silenced.
Try "Perform (Jim-Carreyesque eyebrow wiggle)". Works when silenced and tied up. :smalltongue: (Also, it's "oratory", if that helps. :smallsmile:)

Apart from that, definitely check out Disguise Spell (It might even be in the SRD?) - Noone will see arcanarmageddon by eyebrow coming. :smallbiggrin:

I cracked up at "outary" for some reason.

[ScrambledBrains]

Melodic Casting is mandatory for any Bard who wants to sing and perform. It lets you do both simultaneously, and lets you use Perform checks for concentration. MC is in Complete Mage.

I'm sure someone's already ninjaed me with the Inspire Courage handbook link, so I'll skip that.

The Haunting Melody and Doomspeak feats are useful debuffs which I believe can be applied simultaneous to your casting, if you use MC. The prior applies the shaken condition on all listeners, the latter puts a flat -10 penalty on basically everything the recipient does for a round (including saves). HM is from Eberron Campaign setting, DS is in Champions of Ruin.

And I can't remember... doesn't Virtuoso require Skill Focus? You can get that from the Heward's Hall magical location for a few gp (check complete scoundrel). It probably wouldn't hurt to pick up regardless, for concentration bonuses, song DCs, etc.

:) Thanks for that one, that'll be way useful.

No ninjaing yet that I saw. XD

Again, those'll be helpful. Thanks!

No, it doesn't, but I may get it anyway, for the reasons you said. :smallsmile:


Try "Perform (Jim-Carreyesque eyebrow wiggle)". Works when silenced and tied up. :smalltongue:

Apart from that, definitely check out Disguise Spell (It might even be in the SRD?) - Noone will see arcanarmageddon by eyebrow coming. :smallbiggrin:

XD Nice.

Will do. :smallbiggrin:

[Optimator]

Melodic Casting, Metamagic Song, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Doomspeak, Arcane Mastery (great with Song of Arcane Power), Chain Spell.

Maybe Disguise Spell? If you think it will come up RP-wise. Versatile Performer is a fun one too. Artist, from PGtF might be worth taking.

[ScrambledBrains]

Melodic Casting, Metamagic Song, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Doomspeak, Arcane Mastery (great with Song of Arcane Power), Chain Spell.

Maybe Disguise Spell? If you think it will come up RP-wise. Versatile Performer is a fun one too. Artist, from PGtF might be worth taking.

Which books are Metamagic Song, Versatile Performer, and Arcane Mastery in?

[Divide by Zero]

To truly rock, you need to be a warforged. Or a kobold, because dragons are so metal.

[ScrambledBrains]

To truly rock, you need to be a warforged. Or a kobold, because dragons are so metal.

XD I was actually planning around being a human, though if one of those species offers a benefit appropriate to my build, I may reconsider.

[Optimator]

Warforged don't get fatigued, so having one beat-box all day isn't even a stretch. Get your money's worth out of those daily musics!

[Divide by Zero]

And Dragonwrought kobolds can get mental stat boosts, too. Just be sure to load up your laptop with lots of Dragonforce songs to play whenever you use bardic music.

[ScrambledBrains]

Warforged don't get fatigued, so having one beat-box all day isn't even a stretch. Get your money's worth out of those daily musics!


And Dragonwrought kobolds can get mental stat boosts, too. Just be sure to load up your laptop with lots of Dragonforce songs to play whenever you use bardic music.

XD No, no. Bardic music must be Billy Joel. A bard singing River of Dreams, it don't get better than that. :smallbiggrin:

[Drelua]

I can't remember what it was called, but there's a skill trick in complete scoundrel that lets you use either sleight of hand or bluff to hide the fact that you're casting a spell, opposed by the spot check of anyone watching. Sounds perfect for a bard.

[Divide by Zero]

XD No, no. Bardic music must be Billy Joel. A bard singing River of Dreams, it don't get better than that. :smallbiggrin:

Sure, Billy Joel can be great for some bards. But if you want to rock, it's just not hard enough.

[ScrambledBrains]

Sure, Billy Joel can be great for some bards. But if you want to rock, it's just not hard enough.

Fair enough. :smallbiggrin: But if I'm gonna be a rocking Bard, I prefer Metallica to Dragonforce. :D

[Dragon Star]

Doesn't really fit your theme, but the Bardic Knack ACF from PHB II is awesome. It means you treat all skills as having ranks equal to half you class level rounded up. You have to chose between the virtual ranks and real ranks, but it means you are skilled in everything, no matter what.

[ScrambledBrains]

Doesn't really fit your theme, but the Bardic Knack ACF from PHB II is awesome. It means you treat all skills as having ranks equal to half you class level rounded up. You have to chose between the virtual ranks and real ranks, but it means you are skilled in everything, no matter what.

No, no. Any suggestion helps. :)

[Optimator]

I always found this guide pretty handy. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0)

[ScrambledBrains]

I always found this guide pretty handy. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0)

I'm liking what I'm reading. :)

[Socratov]

If you have a sky high int, you can play the role of party skillmonkey and partyface, to go with that you wprobably want to take able learner(cross-class? what's that?). Then, if dragon mag is allowed, you can use the bardick schools, to gain bonus to some skills, and with able learner, you won't have the disadvantages of skills becoming cross class...

As for the spells, pick all the spells sorcs and wizards don't get (they are not many but for the sake of diversity and etc. it's good to have them.) or example: Glibness (so godly this spell, step1: pump charisma and bluff, step2: cast it, step3:be a Jedi, step 4:???, step5: PROFIT )

With te prestige class chameleon you could actually DMM: persist glibness... hello permanent +30 on bluff check :smallamused:

and with Song of the heart and words of creation, lingering song and focused performer (from dragon 338 p89) you can really grant insane morale bonuses to 2 people in your party (+8 or something to attacks, saves and damage :)

[Treblain]

Unfortunately, you won't be able to take Words of Creation. It's an Exalted Feat, and rock music is Satanic in nature, thus disqualifying you. Sorry.

[ScrambledBrains]

Unfortunately, you won't be able to take Words of Creation. It's an Exalted Feat, and rock music is Satanic in nature, thus disqualifying you. Sorry.

XD Thank you for the first laugh of my day. XD

[Socratov]

Unfortunately, you won't be able to take Words of Creation. It's an Exalted Feat, and rock music is Satanic in nature, thus disqualifying you. Sorry.

the chistian rockbands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_rock_bands) would like a word with you :smallbiggrin:

(although it would still be debatable if chistians would qualify for exalted, but that is an entire different discussion :smallamused: )

[Mezmote]

More Manowar.

Warriors of the world comes to mind. Or just about anything they've released.

[ScrambledBrains]

Alright, based on all the advice I've been given(with a special thanks to Optimator for his PMs. :) ), here is my build:

Race: Human
Classes: Bard 8/Virtuoso 2/Sublime Chord 2/Virtuoso 8+
Feats:
Flaw One(Frail):Extend Spell
Flaw Two(Vulnerable):Chain Spell
Human One:Metamagic Song
One:Melodic Casting
Three:Arcane Mastery
Six:Haunting Melody
Nine:Doomspeak
Twelve:Quicken Spell
Fifteen:Rapid Metamagic
Eighteen:Words of Creation

[The above assumes Flaws are allowed in my game. If not, then I will drop Doomspeak and Haunting Melody, and replace them with Extend Spell and Chain Spell respectively]

Spells Known From Bard[Eight Levels of Bard + One From Virtuoso's Second Level] (Assuming baseline, I can't yet calculate for a high Charisma, as I haven't rolled for stats yet.)

Zero-Level
0:Message
0:Light
0:Lullaby
0:Pretigitation
0:Minor Disguise
0:

1:Improvisation
1:Silent Image
1:Grease
1:Expeditious Retreat, Swift

2:Glitterdust
2:Heroism(Chained)
2:Hold Person
2:Mirror Image

3:Glibness(Extend)
3:Fear
3:Unluck

Spells Known From Sublime Chord[Two Levels of Sublime Chord + Eight From Virtuoso's Remaining Eight Levels] (Again, Assumed Baseline)

4:Ruin Delver's Fortune
4:Cure Critical Wounds
4:Stone Shatter
4:Bestow Curse

5:Dispel Magic, Greater(Quickened)
5:Mislead
5:Blink, Greater
5:CloudKill

6:Nixie's Grace
6:Hindsight
6:Dirge
6:Snowsong

7:Finger of Death
7:Limited Wish
7:Solipsism
7:Stun Ray

8:Wrathful Castigation
8:Bestow Curse, Greater
8:Maze

9:Foresight
9:Mordenkainen’s Disjunction


Now, as I'm sure some of you noted, my spell sheet has gaps. Any suggestions to fill them would be appreciated. Beyond that, I only ask that you look over this build, and point out anything I could set up better. Don't hold back. :smallbiggrin:

[Ksheep]

Versatile Performer is from CAd. It can be useful in some situations, as it lets you pick a number of Perform checks equal to your INT score and use them using the highest ranking of them. This means you can dump all your ranks into Perform (dance) and be able to sing, recite poetry, juggle, and perform weapon drills just as well. Also, it gives you a +2 when you use two performs at the same time.

[Jude_H]

How are you using Quicken?
What are you Chaining?

Swift Invisibility and Expeditious Retreat have no save and are unaffected by CL. Don't waste spells known on them. Buy two cheap wands and use spells known for something useful, like Improvisation or Inspirational Boost.

You get Suggestion as a class ability, with a higher DC. I'd recommend using the slot for something more useful, like Alter Self or Silence.

[ScrambledBrains]

How are you using Quicken?
What are you Chaining?

Swift Invisibility and Expeditious Retreat have no save and are unaffected by CL. Don't waste spells known on them. Buy two cheap wands and use spells known for something useful, like Improvisation or Inspirational Boost.

You get Suggestion as a class ability, with a higher DC. I'd recommend using the slot for something more useful, like Alter Self or Silence.

Good questions...I was going to chain buffs...but I don't have any on my list, do I? XD As for the Quicken...I don't know.

They were more to aid my character in the case I needed to hide or flee from something. Would wands be a better idea for those though?

Yes, but the class ability requires me to fascinate my subject first...though I guess that wouldn't be an issue....

[Optimator]

Setting up a Suggestion via Bardic music ain't exactly reliable. Suggestion on it's own is a good spell anyway though. Still, with limited spells known I wouldn't take Suggestion.

Greater Dispel Magic is a great target for both Quicken and Chain spell. Use Doomspeak and then quicken a save-or-die spell.

Greater Teleport, Time Stop, Improvisation, Foresight, Celerity, Otto's Irresistible Dance, and Greater Mirror Image are all pretty cool spells. Your chosen spells will have a big impact on your role in the party, so choose accordingly.

Instead of Swift Invisibility you could take Mislead or Greater Invisibility perhaps? Mislead plus Disguise Spellcasting plus Invisible Spell could be pretty funny.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Be a hellbred for a bonus to charisma! You used to play the devil's music but since you've discovered Pelor and seen the error of your ways!

[ScrambledBrains]

Setting up a Suggestion via Bardic music ain't exactly reliable. Suggestion on it's own is a good spell anyway though. Still, with limited spells known I wouldn't take Suggestion.

Greater Dispel Magic is a great target for both Quicken and Chain spell. Use Doomspeak and then quicken a save-or-die spell.

Greater Teleport, Time Stop, Improvisation, Foresight, Celerity, Otto's Irresistible Dance, and Greater Mirror Image are all pretty cool spells. Your chosen spells will have a big impact on your role in the party, so choose accordingly.

Instead of Swift Invisibility you could take Mislead or Greater Invisibility perhaps? Mislead plus Disguise Spellcasting plus Invisible Spell could be pretty funny.

Makes sense. :smallsmile:

Ohhh, nice. Any good save-or-die spells you recommend?

I'm looking to buff allies and debuff enemies primarily, while keeping a few spells to cover some emergency situations, and also be the party-face. Ideas?

Grabbed Mislead, and edited my spell list with some of your suggestions.

[ScrambledBrains]

Bumped, shamelessly. :biggrin:

[Optimator]

Feeblemind, Rapture of the Deep, Wail of the Banshee, Final Rebuke, Wrathful Castigation, Finger of Death, Dominate Person/Monster, Endless Slumber, Overwhelm, Glass Strike (particularly good against undead. If you have to choose one fortitude-targeting spell, you could do worse), Frostfell, Mummify, Solipsism, Wrack... there are a ton of options out there. Find the ones you like thematically and go for it.

A feat my Sublime Chord gets a lot of mileage out of is Captivating Melody. Combined with a Veil of Allure, SNowsong, and Nixie's Grace, my Enchantment DCs are through the roof. Sure, immune enemies are a pain, but you have buffs for your allies and Arcane Mastery/Song of Arcane Power Dispelling will take care of almost any Mindblank spell or power.

Get an orange Ioun stone (DMG) and a Ring of Arcane Might (CA) as soon as you can.

[ScrambledBrains]

Feeblemind, Rapture of the Deep, Wail of the Banshee, Final Rebuke, Wrathful Castigation, Finger of Death, Dominate Person/Monster, Endless Slumber, Overwhelm, Glass Strike (particularly good against undead. If you have to choose one fortitude-targeting spell, you could do worse), Frostfell, Mummify, Solipsism, Wrack... there are a ton of options out there. Find the ones you like thematically and go for it.

A feat my Sublime Chord gets a lot of mileage out of is Captivating Melody. Combined with a Veil of Allure, SNowsong, and Nixie's Grace, my Enchantment DCs are through the roof. Sure, immune enemies are a pain, but you have buffs for your allies and Arcane Mastery/Song of Arcane Power Dispelling will take care of almost any Mindblank spell or power.

Get an orange Ioun stone (DMG) and a Ring of Arcane Might (CA) as soon as you can.

Picked up quite a few of these, and also completed my spell list and feat list. :) Thanks Optimator. Once more, anyone wanna pick apart my choices, feel free. Any help is good help, after all. :smallbiggrin: And, just so everyone know now, this build(IMO) is designed primarily to buff allies and debuff enemies, with a few other random spells I think are good thrown in. :smallbiggrin:

[ScrambledBrains]

Well, I'll won't see how good this will be anytime soon, since my friends decided to drop me in favor of someone else. :smallfrown:

[avr]

There's some armour material in Magic of Eberron which gives a concentration bonus IIRC.