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View Full Version : Backup Combat Options for This Character? [E6]



Zaq
2011-07-30, 01:57 PM
So, I'm helping my friend build a trapmaster-style character for our E6 game (Rogue 3 / Silver Key 2 / Trapsmith 1). We've got the skills and stuff down, and he's a creative fellow, so I have no doubt that he'll have plenty of opportunities to set up traps and disable things he really shouldn't disable in the heat of combat (when he saw Crafty Hands, his eyes lit up and he said "so, like, I can use Disable Device to make the orc's belt stop working and make his pants fall down from across the room?! I'm so taking this class!"). I'm not worried about him finding plenty of ways to use his class features. That said, sometimes you just need to shoot a dude or stab a dude, and I'm not sure he'll be too good at that. That's definitely not his primary focus, and he's well aware of that going into this, but I want to make sure that he won't get too bored if he's ever forced into a situation where disabling belt buckles just won't help all that much.

He's got a BAB of +4, a STR of +1, and a DEX of +3. With a masterwork bow or crossbow, he'd have a to-hit of +8 ranged, which is . . . OK, I guess, but not amazing, especially since there's no way we can squeeze the awful feat tax that is Precise Shot into the build right now. In melee, that's a +6 to hit with a masterwork weapon . . . again, not something we really want to rely on. We've got one feat that we can kinda spare right now (it's currently being used for Craven, to make his sneak attacks actually hurt when they hit, but that does nothing to make them work more frequently), so I'm thinking that (magic) items are the way to go. In our game, the caster level limit for crafted items is hard-set at 6: anything that says it has a CL above 6 is an artifact, and you can't assume that you can have it. (These artifacts do exist, but we can't just go out and buy them.)

So, what options do we have? He doesn't have UMD (just couldn't fit it into the build, and he dumped CHA anyway), so I can't just get him a bandolier of wands, unless they're Trapsmith spells (which would tend to be expensive). Alchemical items for touch attacks are an option (he'll be carrying around a bunch of them to rig into traps anyway), but again, without Precise Shot (and, to a lesser extent, Quick Draw), even a touch attack only goes so far (I speak from experience . . . I'm currently playing an Incarnate in the same game, and while I love Dissolving Spittle, if I don't bind the Sighting Gloves as well, I'm not hitting squat). I'm just kinda coming up dry.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a damaging option . . . I just want him to have something he can rely on when he doesn't have the opportunity to set up a trap or use Disable Device in a delightfully creative manner. I don't expect such a situation to come up TOO often, but . . . well, you know how it goes. Hope for the best, but plan for the cliché.

If it matters, we're currently at level 6 + 1 feat, and his feats are Apprentice (prereq), Dodge (prereq), Darkstalker, and Craven. If we have to lose one of them, it would probably be Craven, but I think it's a decent enough boost. Any thoughts?

Tvtyrant
2011-07-30, 02:00 PM
Nets with spikes? It gives a debuff and allows him to SA. Throwing tridents would work in a similar fashion, though its not as good.

Zaq
2011-07-30, 02:15 PM
Nets with spikes? It gives a debuff and allows him to SA. Throwing tridents would work in a similar fashion, though its not as good.

Hmmm. Since he's only got Rogue proficiencies, I think he'd have to burn a feat on proficiency, which is a bummer, but it might be an option. Remind me where the spiked net is again? A&EG? Probably not the best option, but worth considering.

Damn shame that weapons are so expensive. I'd get him a +1 Precise shortbow, but a +2 weapon is a really uncomfortably large (I'd go so far as to say unacceptably large) chunk of level 6 WBL, which is what he's starting with.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-07-30, 02:35 PM
In our game, the caster level limit for crafted items is hard-set at 6: anything that says it has a CL above 6 is an artifact, and you can't assume that you can have it. (These artifacts do exist, but we can't just go out and buy them.)

Nope, DMG errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a):

Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster
Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.
For example, if a +1 Speed weapon is discovered in a random treasure horde (not necessarily in E6), the item's caster level is 7th. If a Wizard 5 crafts a +1 Speed weapon, its caster level is 5th, whatever his currently is. An item's caster level is not a prerequisite for creating it. The last line in every item entry is organized as follows, note the placement of the semicolons:
Detect Magic aura; Caster level for purposes of item saving throws and dispel checks; Prerequisites for creating the item; Price.


As for your friend's character, try to fit in Craft: Alchemy and have him throw around Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemical Fire, Acid Flasks, etc. which he can craft at 1/3 the normal price. A plain old net is a great suggestion, and even with a -4 nonproficiency penalty he'll still probably hit since it's a ranged touch attack. Nets are great to have anyway in case you run into flying opponents. Just carry around five of them pre-folded so you won't have to take four rounds in combat to fold one.

Tvtyrant
2011-07-30, 02:42 PM
Nope, DMG errata (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a):

For example, if a +1 Speed weapon is discovered in a random treasure horde (not necessarily in E6), the item's caster level is 7th. If a Wizard 5 crafts a +1 Speed weapon, its caster level is 5th, whatever his currently is. An item's caster level is not a prerequisite for creating it. The last line in every item entry is organized as follows, note the placement of the semicolons:
Detect Magic aura; Caster level for purposes of item saving throws and dispel checks; Prerequisites for creating the item; Price.


As for your friend's character, try to fit in Craft: Alchemy and have him throw around Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemical Fire, Acid Flasks, etc. which he can craft at 1/3 the normal price. A plain old net is a great suggestion, and even with a -4 nonproficiency penalty he'll still probably hit since it's a ranged touch attack. Nets are great to have anyway in case you run into flying opponents. Just carry around five of them pre-folded so you won't have to take four rounds in combat to fold one.
These are all precisely what I would have said if I was smarter.

Zaq
2011-07-30, 02:45 PM
I don't think I made myself clear. In our game, anything above CL 6 is an artifact. Period. We like it that way. We're playing E6 for a reason. Doesn't matter what you can get your CL up to. Doesn't matter what the errata says. If the item says it has a CL above 6, it's an artifact. Please don't fight me on this one. I'm well aware of what the rules say. I'm telling you how my game works.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-07-30, 03:14 PM
My advice on taking Craft: Alchemy still stands.

On the magic items, my point was that a great deal of items can be crafted by a 6th level character, despite what a given item's default caster level is. To consider an item with a caster level of >6 to be an artifact is perfectly acceptable. However, keep in mind that in E6 the only direction most characters can improve other than feats is in magic items. If they accumulate enough wealth and wish to expend the feats and considerable XP costs for creating magic items, it would be a bit unfair to impose an unintended caster level prerequisite to prevent them from doing so.