SSCQs (stupid spell completion questions)

[NecroRick]

So I was looking at the Artificer. At low levels he can... make scrolls... sometimes. Yeah. And I was looking at the economics of it. Let's say that he spends his crafting pool making scrolls (after all, might as well do something with it, because we can't roll it over when we go up a level).

So the Artificer sits in his castle up on the hill, lightning flashing, thunder rumbling. After a month he comes to market, and says: "I made these scrolls, who wants some?"

Stupid Question 1: Who can actually use them?

Discussion: of the normal base classes only Bard and Rogue get UMD as class skills, so we assume they can... or can they? Because of those darn kids (read as: Archivists and Wizards) these scrolls are neither arcane nor divine and hence can/can not(?) be used by other classes?

Consensus so far is that only people with UMD can use Artificer scribed scrolls. I guess this makes sense, especially since we don't want to walk around with Archivists humping our legs all day long.

It's just... from an economics point of view this is deeply unsatisfying. I suppose I should avoid staring into the pit that is D&D economics...

Stupid Question 2: Since infusions are for all intents and purposes spells† -> can you make scrolls of infusions?

†you can apply meta-magic to them for instance.

I'll go with a yes on this one.

Stupid Question 3: If the Artificer can make scrolls of infusions, who can use them? Is it just those with UMD?

Discussion: Can say a Wizard/Sor/Pal/Dru/Cleric use the Scroll of Infusion of Bull's Strength? (It appears on all their class lists and is a second level infusion)

Edit: still not sure about this one, it is explicit about the reverse case (i.e. artificer's using other people's stuff, but not about other people using stuff on the artificer's list...)


Edit^2: nope, doesn't work.



The user must have the spell on his or her class list.


Okay so far...



The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)


D'oh!

Stupid Question 4: If the Artificer can in fact make scrolls of infusions, does he still need to make a UMD roll during item creation?

Discussion: I may be reading it wrong, but it appears like the Artificer is the only class who makes rolls of any kind during item creation (with the possible exception of golems which do explicitly require a craft check). E.g. if as a normal caster I want to make a Holy Sword and I have the required spells and I have the materials and item creation feat, I don't even need to make a weapon-smithing roll or anything like that.

I understand making UMD checks to emulate other classes and requirements, but since they do in fact have the infusion on their class list...

edit:


An artificer's infusions do not meet spell pre-requisites for creating magic items. For example, an artificer must still employ the Use Magic Device skill to emulate the light spell to create a wand of light, even though light appears on his infusion list.


I'm gonna go with yes, he still needs to make UMD rolls.


Stupid Question 5: If the Artificer can in fact make scrolls of infusions, can he make scrolls of level 2 infusions (DC 23 if UMD is required) at level 1?

Discussion: I know his odds are not so flash, but hey, can't take either the crafting pool or action points with me to the next level...

Edit: this is still open, but I figure why not? Does anybody see it differently?


Stupid Question 6: does the Artificer who made the scroll of a particular infusion (if such a beast is legit) need to make a UMD roll to activate it?

Discussion: take for instance clerics and wizards who don't have UMD because they don't need it for the divine/arcane spells on their own class lists.

[GoatBoy]

1. Correct. All artificer-created scrolls of spells from other classes require a UMD check to activate.

2. Infusions are not spells, they are a class ability with a similar function. Thus they can't be made into items, any more than eldritch blast or bardic music.

3. I would rule that infusions are just that, not spells, they cannot be used interchangeably with the corresponding spell from another class's list. Even if an item requires Bull's Strength to create, for example, a UMD check must still be made even though the "spell" is on the artificer's list.

That is my interpretation of those points.

[NecroRick]

Hmm...

I've found the relevant section about infusions = spells. But that raised some new questions (and searching for the answers to those solved some other questions...)


Infusions: An artificer is not a spellcaster, but he does have the ability to imbue items with magical infusions. Infusions are neither arcane nor divine; they are drawn from the artificer infusion list (see Chapter 5: Magic). They function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells. For example an infusion can be dispelled, it will not function in an antimagic area, and an artificer must make a Concentration check if injured while imbuing an item with an infusion.

Hence:
"They function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells."

However, what caught my eye was the first line - so they aren't spellcasters? But don't they have a caster level? And it was while I was looking for something to indicate that they do have a "caster level" (if not perhaps a spellcaster level) that I found this:


Like a spellcaster, an artificer can apply item creation feats and metamagic feats to his infusions.

Yay!


...An artificer cannot automatically use a spell trigger or spell completion item if the equivalent spell appears on his infusion list.

Bother!

[GoatBoy]

Like a spellcaster, an artificer can apply item creation feats and metamagic feats to his infusions.

I stand corrected.

[NecroRick]

I stand corrected.

Thanks for your input! I've updated the original questions, there's still a couple not struck out, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on them.