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NotScaryBats
2011-07-31, 03:59 AM
Warning: long post of complaining --

Are DM/GMs masochists? Why do we plan and plot for others' enjoyment?

I just finished a long session with my friends. We haven't played together in ages and it was nice to see everyone again. Last year, I told a very successful campaign that lasted for about two dozen sessions, but we hadn't played since.

After tonight, I feel terrible, like I never want to DM again.

I don't know exactly what it was, but I spent a month preparing for today and I just didn't have fun at all. Every encounter felt like it lasted forever (to me, i ended up cutting a few short) every reward made them complain and ask for more (I used treasure guidelines from the book) and it was just terrible (for me, everyone else had fun).

I guess it's just when you put so much effort into a thing you just can't be satisfied with the results once it's over.

Anyway, I just wanted to commiserate, dunno if there are any others out there who feel me, or have any advice.

Asmayus
2011-07-31, 05:22 AM
Have you considered theres a chance you've forgotten the bad and remebered the good? Players will walk all over your plots and plans and loot piles even at the best of times.

Comes with the territory, really.

The only suggestion I have is maybe you should be a player for a while? If you've GMed for ages it might make for a nice change, even if only for a session or two.

KineticDiplomat
2011-07-31, 07:20 AM
You should try moving to a more streamlined, story centric system.

D&D, for all of its venerable qualities, is extremely painful on the GM.

Planning combat for anything above the lowest of the low either involves extremely tedious mook creation , or the patented "wing it" system, which is somewhat difficult to do with 5 billion million class/spell/effect combos to take into account. So, every planned encounter requires you spend tons of time deciding if the lizardman wizard rogue is going to prepare X Y Z...and then the actual encounter involves countless referencing of spells, feats, abilities, and other shenigans.

Which is great for what it is, the ability to make every critter a totally unqiue and differnet engagement but makes combat likely to be slow, and much slower for the DM. Plus it occupies tons of session planning time. Also, because encounters require such lenths to create, the very combat system makes players going off the tracks extremely painful. it become difficult to say "ok, you decided to torch the tavern you all met in, well, here's the guards."

Similiarly, D&D is, at least in its most common forms, a very loot centric game. its assumed that players will need powered up items to help them fight increasing threats, etc. This makes players likely to act like a 5 year olds in a toy store, because so much of their advancement relies on it. They always assume they need bigger and better because there is such a vast range of power differential created by gear. So, any time you play D&D, you need to be prepared to slap down the grasping hands of whiny children who think you are personally resposnible for their materialistic wishes not being fulfilled - which to an extent, you are. This is, quite naturally, tiring.

I'm guessing that endless stat plotting and trying to balance encounters and gear is not why you chose to become a GM. You volunteered because you wanted to create epic worlds, memorable characters, sinister dungeons, and amazing stories of intrigue, humanity in all it facets, heroism, evil, rdemption, war, and death.

You aren't getting this out of D&D because instead of making awesome, you are spending all your time making the town guard make sure he has the right series of spear chucking feats to chuck a spear at just the right level of challenge accoridng to the approved challenge ratings, and making sure the players get the right combo of "how to dodge a spear bracers' to make it survivable.

So, do whats natural: move to a system where you can focus 90% on the awesome, 10% on the mechanics. You'll be happier. Run a whole campaign on this alternate system. Do all the stuff you signed up to be a GM for.

Eventually, if you decide you want something more mechanically heavy, you return to D&D, a little wiser and with a playerbase that hopefully is thankful to have a + anything.

Some alternate systems with less stats, more story:

Any Low magic campaign settings played straight.
Dark Heresy
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
Hackmaster Basic (careful...its easy to pervert this one)
Cortex
Eclipse Phase

I would encourage others to add more suggesstions.

Burnheart
2011-07-31, 09:41 AM
I like the storyteller system used in nWoD and i'm currently trying to get a game organized for my friends.

Jay R
2011-07-31, 10:16 AM
Similiarly, D&D is, at least in its most common forms, a very loot centric game. its assumed that players will need powered up items to help them fight increasing threats, etc. This makes players likely to act like a 5 year olds in a toy store, because so much of their advancement relies on it.

This has gotten worse in later editions. The CR and WBL rules have transformed getreasure from a cool reward to an entitlement.


I'm guessing that endless stat plotting and trying to balance encounters and gear is not why you chose to become a GM. You volunteered because you wanted to create epic worlds, memorable characters, sinister dungeons, and amazing stories of intrigue, humanity in all it facets, heroism, evil, rdemption, war, and death.

Exactly. I strongly urge any DM to read Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories (http://www.bjorn.kiev.ua/librae/Tolkien/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.htm)". He talks about the great joy of fantasy being sub-creation - creating a new world.

Secondly, for anybody getting discouraged about DMing (or anything else), I recommend C. S. Lewis's article "Talking About Bicycles (http://books.google.com/books?id=0QlI-Sn-euIC&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=Lewis+%22Talking+about+Bicycles%22&source=bl&ots=bF7NSltYcS&sig=DXljmNadUEQkvuSCRH7UrrI2IGg&hl=en&ei=GnA1Tv2gFYLb0QHGqZSPDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Lewis%20%22Talking%20about%20Bicycles%22&f=false)". It may help you get past the Disenchanted stage and into Re-Enchantment.

Mastikator
2011-07-31, 07:40 PM
Two fatal flaws here, D&D and plots. Play a system that doesn't entitle loot and exp, and don't prepare a plot in advance of time, at least not a hard plot, if you have to have a plot then keep as many things loose as possible, hide the rails as good as you can and give them teleportation powers so that when (yes when) the players derail you can move the rails under them without moving them.

Shep
2011-08-01, 11:54 AM
I've been disappointed in my PC groups before (usally when I first start DM'ing for them) mainly because they often have different objectives than the ones I design for them. I've come to realize that the game is a collaboration. I see my role at least partially as an entertainer. This emphatically does not mean always giving them what they want (which will bore them within a single session), but it does mean getting to know each player's character, style, and what parts of the game they really enjoy. I find I get the biggest charge out of my players having fun, and if that's at the expense of the story or encounters I planned, so be it. Most groups I've played with like to mess up the intricately planned events I've staged (or the plans they think I've staged). If the 2nd level rogue sees an ogre with a money pouch labeled "I dare you," I have a pretty good idea of what he's going to try to do (even if it results in a neighborhood lockdown while the ogre constabulary busts down doors house to house looking for the thief.)

As a DM (and to a lesser extent as a player) I feel like I'm putting on a performance (could be because I used to act). I want my players to come out feeling like they saw a good movie or read a good story at the end of the session. That means challenging them, suprising them with things they haven't seen before, trying to limit devices that ruin immersion, pouring over references and whatnot. I actually enjoy that sort of work. They still complain at times, but the compliments have usually outnumbered the gripes. I want to facilitate cool things happenning, inasmuch as they can be engineered while still taking into account random die rolls. I will allow players (and even parties) to die, because I've never seen anyone keep playing a game where it was impossibly to lose.

There are many different styles of DM'ing, of course. I've had DM's that want to micromanage every detail, even down to dictating what class or race players are allowed to play. Some see DM'ing as a strategy game against the players with the goal being the extermination of the opposing side. To each their own, I suppose. But I can't imagine why anyone would make the time investment to play (and certainly not DM) if it's not at least 90% fun for them.