Highlander! (Or how to make Vorpal actually worthwhile)

[Cieyrin]

At the next GenCon, there's a Highlander event, which has the following event fluff:


Highlander meets the Forgotten Realms: Immortals feel an irresistible summons to fight for the prize in Waterdeep. Bring your own 15th level character with +15 BAB (Fighter related classes only). Standard SRD, 200,000 gpv in gear. All characters subject to DM approval. Helpful hint: Bring a vorpal! i.e. A Vorpal(+5) and Keen (+1) weapon would cost 98,000 gpv. NOTE: DM's can provide PC's from Highlander film/TV.

Disclaimer: I can't afford to go to GenCon this year, so I'm not cheating by talking to people about it for a good character.

What kind of build would you make with the above restrictions (It should be pointed out that you can't Divine Power or Tenser's Transformation your way to BAB +15 and no LA buyoff, cheaters :smalltongue:). I'm thinking Frenzied Berserker fits the bill quite nicely, possibly with a Furious Brash weapon, but other suggestions for builds are welcome.

EDIT: As there seems to be much confusion about the exact specifications of the contest, let me clear that up in simple words for everybody.

SRD Material Only (http://www.d20srd.org/)
15th level characters
BAB +15
Vorpal is suggested (Note it says 'Hint') but not required
200,000 gpAnd let me say again, I'm not going to GenCon this year, so this is essentially a thought exercise as opposed to an actual character being generated. I'd consider throwing something up as a PbP with some cleared up rules, perhaps, but that's another matter entirely.

To make this even easier, here's a list of SRD classes that are Full BAB
Barbarian
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Warrior
Arcane Archer
Blackguard
Duelist
Dwarven Defender
Eldritch Knight
Horizon Walker
Slayer
War Mind
Dwarf Paragon
Half-Dragon Paragon
Half-Orc Paragon
Orc Paragon
Bold entries are included for completeness, though probably not at all viable in the contest parameters.
Italiced entry included for the lulz :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

(Fighter related classes only)

They'd better ban ToB before someone cleans house :smallamused:

[Cieyrin]

They'd better ban ToB before someone cleans house :smallamused:

It is very open-ended, yes. I suppose they had limited space in the listing, as otherwise I'd have thought they'd put in a book list, as otherwise they're gonna get tanked with ToBattlers and Barbarians. I suppose they were banking on the 'DM approval' clause but that seems like they're gonna have a bunch of annoyed people that way when they get disapproved and get handed a flavorful Highlander-based character. :smallannoyed:

Not to mention Duskblades and Hexblades...

[Psyren]

I do get the giggles from imagining Little Timmy proudly entering with his Swashbuckler 6/Duelist 9, and get curbstomped so hard by a Warblade that he immediately switches to 4e :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

What about a TWF fighter (or Tiger Claw Warblade, or whatever) with dual Vorpal weapons? Normally TWF is bad without bonus dice, but the purpose of this event seems to be whaling on each other until someone gets a lucky 20, it might be more effective than normal to just go for massive numbers of attacks.

[Divide by Zero]

What about a TWF fighter (or Tiger Claw Warblade, or whatever) with dual Vorpal weapons? Normally TWF is bad without bonus dice, but the purpose of this event seems to be whaling on each other until someone gets a lucky 20, it might be more effective than normal to just go for massive numbers of attacks.

Dual Aptitude Vorpal Kukri with Lightning Maces?

[Cieyrin]

Dual Aptitude Vorpal Kukri with Lightning Maces?

You forgot Keen and Disciple of Dispater. :smallamused:

[Heliomance]

No point in crit-fishing, Vorpal only goes off on a natural 20. What you want is rerolls. Luck feats and as many attacks as you can get seems to be the way to go.

[Rogue Shadows]

Highlander meets the Forgotten Realms: Immortals feel an irresistible summons to fight for the prize in Waterdeep. Bring your own 15th level character with +15 BAB (Fighter related classes only). Standard SRD, 200,000 gpv in gear. All characters subject to DM approval. Helpful hint: Bring a vorpal! i.e. A Vorpal(+3) and Keen (+1) weapon would cost 98,000 gpv. NOTE: DM's can provide PC's from Highlander film/TV.

Is the TOB in the system reference document now? Because unless it is Little Timmy, while his Swashbuckler 6/Duelist 9 may still get curbstomped, won't be curbstomped by martial classes...

[Talya]

No point in crit-fishing, Vorpal only goes off on a natural 20. What you want is rerolls. Luck feats and as many attacks as you can get seems to be the way to go.

You'd want to play a goliath, then. Auspicious Marking and Markings of the Warrior gets you three attack rerolls a day.

[Cieyrin]

Is the TOB in the system reference document now? Because unless it is Little Timmy, while his Swashbuckler 6/Duelist 9 may still get curbstomped, won't be curbstomped by martial classes...

Huh, missed that...

Well, Core builds, anybody?

[Flickerdart]

Whose bright idea was it to make Knowledge(Psionics) a required skill for Warmind? Without a way of getting it in-class (damn you, Human Paragon being 3/4 BAB!) you can only sneak in two levels, giving you two 1st level powers and two half-decent abilities 3/day. Still decent, and can still ruin an unprepared meleer's day, but at level 15 WBL-mancy has long since taken over as the primary means of combat, so it's a little irrelevant...

[Taelas]

Good luck winning without having a vorpal blade. :smalltongue:

[Rogue Shadows]

Huh, missed that...

Well, Core builds, anybody?

Sure. Divine Rank [X].

Deities & Demigods is in the SRD, and nothing in the rules prevents you from rolling up a god from the looks of things.

...but I'd have a back-up non-divine character ready, just in case.

[Talya]

SRD, only?

Don't suppose one can play a Marilith?


If not, play a monk.

Yes, you heard me.

Greater Flurry, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, an item with Haste. A pair of vorpal kama, and take improved trip and combat reflexes for extra attacks. The attack bonus doesn't matter, a natural 20 hits anyway, and that's the only thing that's going to kill them.

[Rogue Shadows]

If not, play a monk.

Doesn't work, the character has to be 15th level and have a +15 BAB; a 15th level monk only has a BAB of +11. It also has to be a Fighter class.

That limits you to Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, or Ranger, plus various prestige classes.

[Divide by Zero]

No point in crit-fishing, Vorpal only goes off on a natural 20. What you want is rerolls. Luck feats and as many attacks as you can get seems to be the way to go.

Missed the SRD-only bit, but with Lightning Maces, crit-fishing lets you roll more, which means more chances for a 20.

[Flickerdart]

SRD, only?

Don't suppose one can play a Marilith?

Mariliths are LA - unfortunately, but they wouldn't qualify even with LA0, as they have 16HD.

[Rogue Shadows]

Mariliths are LA - unfortunately, but they wouldn't qualify even with LA0, as they have 16HD.

And also aren't a Fighter related class, unless you interpret "creature type" as class and "outsider" as Fighter-related based on BAB. Which you could do, but I'd want a judges' clarification first.

...because I think the rules need to be spelled out (a lot of people seemed to just gloss over them...and they say I don't read responces)...

1) SRD only.
2) Fighter-related class only.
3) 15th level
4) BAB +15.

That limits you to Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger for base classes.

There are a number of prestige class options, though: Blackguard, Duelist, Dwarven Defender, Horizon Walker, and probably some psionic classes that I can't be bothered to remember right now.

[Taelas]

Mariliths are LA - unfortunately, but they wouldn't qualify even with LA0, as they have 16HD.

Level drain solves that. :smallamused:

[Rogue Shadows]

Level drain solves that. :smallamused:

But it doesn't work because they're not a Fighter-related class.

[ericgrau]

On average it takes 2.6 rounds to drop a foe. At level 15 that means about 7 attacks. So what you need to do is go snicker snack at least once every time another build would get 7 attacks. Normally you need 20 attacks to go snicker-snack, so the first goal is to triple your number of attacks. If you TWF you can get almost double, but not triple. Flurry could helps a little, but it'll make your attack bonus suck. Keen doesn't help vorpal at all.

Assuming you have a way to boost your chances of confirming criticals through the roof, you could try this: monk 11 / any-full-BAB 4 + TWF kamas. You can also take monk to 12 without losing any BAB if you want abundant step (dimension door 1/day). 3 regular attacks, 3 TWF attacks, 2 flurry attacks, 1 haste attack, for 9 attacks. In 2.6 rounds that's 15.4 attacks, close enough I guess. 23 attacks if you get some kind of pounce. This is assuming you can confirm the crits. Your attack bonus is 5 behind normal, so you need at least a +5 to confirm, and +9 would be nice to get almost perfect reliability. You already have improved trip for free, so there's +4 right off the bat. Now I need somebody else to figure out the rest.

Putting spell storing on your kamas with something like confusion, hold person, bestow curse or etc. would add 2 more opportunities for your foes to roll nat 1s. If the spell comes from a party caster with a good save DC, your chances are higher than that. Poison the weapons with drow knockout poisons for 2 more opportunities for your foe to roll a nat 1. Add any other save effects you can think of, and I think we can hit 20 die rolls pretty easily to finally make vorpal keep up with regular damage at killing.

[Flickerdart]

Let's list our PrC options, too.

Warmind (hard to get into)
Slayer (advances powers, so you need powers)
Arcane Archer and Eldritch Knight (good luck getting arcane spells without losing BAB)
Blackguard
Duelist
Dwarven Defender

Paladin 1/Blackguard 10 gets us the fastest casting possible, with four more levels left. Divine spells, unfortunately. Going Paladin 5 will net us Lay on Hands and extra Sneak Attack. SA is useful, as Blackguards get Summon Monster and a Companion which can flank for him (though not for long, as they are squishy). Straight Paladin and Ranger have slightly less spells per day, but they have a much better list...

Wildshape Ranger would be a powerful contender if not for the Vorpal thing.

[Divide by Zero]

Keen doesn't help vorpal at all.

I love how the event description suggests a keen vorpal weapon even though they explicitly don't stack.

[Rogue Shadows]

Assuming you have a way to boost your chances of confirming criticals through the roof, you could try this: monk 11 / any-full-BAB 4 + TWF kamas.

Monk 11 has a BAB of +8. Add in +4 and you get +12. That's 3 shy of the requirement of +15.

Monk is not an option.

[ericgrau]

Oh I just noticed the full BAB part - EDIT seconds after the ninja. Ok then, a TWF tripper could still pull it off I think. You're only out 2 attacks per round or about 3 attacks total. Pile on the save effects and I think we can still hit 20 die rolls to kill something as fast as damage. 12.5 attacks + 2 poisons + 2 spell storing = 16.4 so far. 4 more die rolls to go, or already at the goal if things have more than a 1 in 20 chance of failing their saves.

@V: No divine power either.

[Divide by Zero]

To simplify, a single level of any class without full BAB will disqualify it. Unless you can get divine power to count, I suppose.

[Flickerdart]

Whirling Frenzy Barbarian gets multiple attacks. Rapid Shot grants an additional attack with ranged weapons. Daggers can have the Vorpal property on them.

Hmm.....

[Psyren]

Is the TOB in the system reference document now? Because unless it is Little Timmy, while his Swashbuckler 6/Duelist 9 may still get curbstomped, won't be curbstomped by martial classes...

Well, his Swashbuckler can't enter either.

Ranger 5/Horizon Walker 10?


Let's list our PrC options, too.

Warmind (hard to get into)
Slayer (advances powers, so you need powers)
Arcane Archer and Eldritch Knight (good luck getting arcane spells without losing BAB)
Blackguard
Duelist
Dwarven Defender

You forgot Horizon Walker (also full BAB)

[Rogue Shadows]

To simplify, a single level of any class without full BAB will disqualify it. Unless you can get divine power to count, I suppose.

I wouldn't think so, because to get your hands on that you'd need to be a cleric, and a cleric is not usually thought of as a Fighter-related class.

Hmm.

I would not emphasize vorpal, myself, when building. People are easy to behead when they're at -10 hit points. Rather than focusing on fishing for natural 20s, you should probably instead focus on dishing out the most damage possible.

Also do not forget movement. You'll want to be able to fly, and I mean that in a literal, not metaphorical, sense.


Whirling Frenzy Barbarian gets multiple attacks. Rapid Shot grants an additional attack with ranged weapons. Daggers can have the Vorpal property on them.

Hmm.....

Whirling Frenzy Barbarian isn't in the SRD!

Read the rules!

EDIT
Actually, it occurs to me that I rely on my books and not the SRD, for the most part, so Whirling Frenzy Barbarian might be in the SRD, I dunno. But I don't think it is.

[ericgrau]

I don't think anyone can afford 20 vorpal daggers either. They're 32k each. Even with returning you need 7 of them at 50k each.

Luck blades are 22k and allow one reroll per day, but at 22k they're a bit pricy for the budget.

[Taelas]

You're assuming they would go unconscious. They're Immortals, which changes the dynamic entirely. You need to behead them in combat, otherwise it ain't happening.

[Flickerdart]

Huh, Horizon Walker is full BAB, Missed that one.

With the money we're given, we can afford four +1 Returning Vorpal daggers, so throwing isn't the way to go, I suppose. TWF then - 8 attacks with Whirling Frenzy goes a ways towards getting that hit, Greater Cloak of Displacement wastes their 20s when they get them. Tripping isn't useful, really, as the attack penalty matters not - we're fishing for 20s here. Luckblade gives us rerolls 1/day, so buy a bunch of empty ones (only 22k) to seal the deal.

[Rogue Shadows]

You're assuming they would go unconscious. They're Immortals, which changes the dynamic entirely. You need to behead them in combat, otherwise it ain't happening.

Mmn, I was wondering that. Then again in Highlander, the immortals can "die" for a time, but they always return to life within minutes unless beheaded.

Basically whoever does this should get more details on how immortals work.

I personally assume it's going to be "Regeneration ability equal to character level; can't die (be reduced to -10 HP) unless beheaded." Or at least that's how I'd run it.

[Flickerdart]

Whirling Frenzy Barbarian isn't in the SRD!

Read the rules!

EDIT
Actually, it occurs to me that I rely on my books and not the SRD, for the most part, so Whirling Frenzy Barbarian might be in the SRD, I dunno. But I don't think it is.

Whirling Frenzy is in the SRD, and I take offense to your shouting at me while failing to consult your sources.

[ericgrau]

Tripping isn't useful, really, as the attack penalty matters not - we're fishing for 20s here.
Tripping helps confirm the criticals, which is necessary, especially on the -12 penalty secondary attacks. Locking an enemy in place for full attacks isn't bad either. You can also use a sickle for a slashing tripping weapon.

[Rogue Shadows]

Whirling Frenzy is in the SRD, and I take offense to your shouting at me while failing to consult your sources.

I do apologise; I'm just annoyed that 75% of the responces completely ignored the rules displayed quite clearly in the first post.

Really, though? Unearthed Arcana made it to the SRD?

[ericgrau]

It might be subject to DM approval (like everything else, but this in particular), as it is SRD but not core. Seems like it could get allowed though. Is pounce in the SRD? That would help even more.

Because these are epic fights against the immortals, I suspect direct damage will take more than the standard 2.6 rounds to drop one, which makes vorpal more appealing than normal. I suspect we've already beat direct damage if that's so.

[Taelas]

Grapple with light slashing weapons.

And yes, much of Unearthed Arcana is in the SRD.

[Flickerdart]

I do apologise; I'm just annoyed that 75% of the responces completely ignored the rules displayed quite clearly in the first post.

Really, though? Unearthed Arcana made it to the SRD?
Yep. Core books, XPH, Deities and Demigods and Unearthed Arcana.


It might be subject to DM approval (like everything else, but this in particular), as it is SRD but not core. Seems like it could get allowed though. Is pounce in the SRD? That would help even more.
Sadly only as Dire Charge, the epic feat. Still, we could finagle a Polymorph to turn into something with Pounce, and then figure out a way to get it to hold weapons, no?

Edit: Ooh, grapple, that's clever! Still, facing against guaranteed full BAB builds makes it somewhat less guaranteed, and freedom of movement is readily available at this level.

[ericgrau]

Oh the PCs are the immortals? So this is 1v1 duels? Then it certainly takes more than 2.6 rounds to drop a foe and vorpal is much better than direct damage.

A ring of freedom of movement is 40k at this level, so I doubt there will be very many people with them. Or else they'll lose quickly to other non-grapple builds. With improved grapple you already have a +4 advantage over others who didn't think of it, not to mention they probably don't have a light weapon. Seems like a plan.

[tyckspoon]

Really, though? Unearthed Arcana made it to the SRD?

No, it didn't. It's Open Game Content, which is why d20srd can post it, but it's not in the official SRD documents. The SRD covers the 3 Core books, the Epic Level Handbook, Deities and Demigods (just the rules for how divinity works, not the actual statblocks of the gods), and the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

[Rogue Shadows]

No, it didn't. It's Open Game Content, which is why d20srd can post it, but it's not in the official SRD documents. The SRD covers the 3 Core books, the Epic Level Handbook, Deities and Demigods (just the rules for how divinity works, not the actual statblocks of the gods), and the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

That's what I thought...

This (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) is probably the only version of the SRD that matters, I take it?

[ericgrau]

I should add at level 15 you get a +9 to use magic device from cross-class ranks alone. With circlet of persuasion (4.5k) and a 14 charisma and that's +14. Add some more charisma or a couple feats and you can reliably UMD wands. A 50 charge wand of freedom of movement is 21k. Time to find out the policy on pre-combat buffs. Also consider greater invisibility, see invisibility, probably many others too.

[Flickerdart]

No, it didn't. It's Open Game Content, which is why d20srd can post it, but it's not in the official SRD documents. The SRD covers the 3 Core books, the Epic Level Handbook, Deities and Demigods (just the rules for how divinity works, not the actual statblocks of the gods), and the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
Bwuh. That's confusing - why would they do it that way?

[ericgrau]

It does say "open content from Unearthed Arcana". It would be nice if they added ", not part of the SRD".

[Psyren]

No, it didn't. It's Open Game Content, which is why d20srd can post it, but it's not in the official SRD documents. The SRD covers the 3 Core books, the Epic Level Handbook, Deities and Demigods (just the rules for how divinity works, not the actual statblocks of the gods), and the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

It really depends on how the contest defines "SRD" though, doesn't it?

Anyway, if UA stuff in the d20SRD is allowed, I'd do Fighter 5 with Skill Knowledge to get Know (Psionics), then go into War Mind 10 and decimate everyone.

[Flickerdart]

Fighter 5? That seems weird. Why not Barbarian or something instead of the dead Fighter level?

[Rogue Shadows]

It really depends on how the contest defines "SRD" though, doesn't it?

Anyway, if UA stuff in the d20SRD is allowed, I'd do Fighter 5 with Skill Knowledge to get Know (Psionics), then go into War Mind 10 and decimate everyone.

I think it might be best to assume that it isn't. Last thing one wants to do is show up to GenCon with a character that they can't actually use.


Fighter 5? That seems weird. Why not Barbarian or something instead of the dead Fighter level?

...spite?

[Kire_Nessumsar]

Would it be viable to make a sunder build?

[Psyren]

Fighter 5? That seems weird. Why not Barbarian or something instead of the dead Fighter level?

Style points. Hell, I could go Warrior 5/War Mind 10 and still win.


I think it might be best to assume that it isn't. Last thing one wants to do is show up to GenCon with a character that they can't actually use.

I'd have more fun pointing out to the organizers how ridiculously open-ended their "contest" is than actually competing. :smalltongue:

[tyckspoon]

I should add at level 15 you get a +9 to use magic device from cross-class ranks alone. With circlet of persuasion (4.5k) and a 14 charisma and that's +14. Add some more charisma or a couple feats and you can reliably UMD wands. A 50 charge wand of freedom of movement is 21k. Time to find out the policy on pre-combat buffs. Also consider greater invisibility, see invisibility, probably many others too.

Incidentally, since I have reminded myself that the psionics handbook is in fact SRD material- Pounce is available. Psionic Lion's Charge. And if you do the build somebody mentioned earlier that gets the first two levels of Warmind, you can use a dorje of it without a check. Something like a Ranger/Barbarian/Warmind, TWF with Psi Lion's Charge could do alright.

Edit: That is, assuming the Rules Compendium statement that Trigger items only take as long as their spells do is in effect, because the Psionics book itself makes all dorjes a standard action, which would be pointless. And they don't even have the 'well, they hadn't invented swift actions yet..' defense for that one.

[ericgrau]

^ Why not fighter over ranger for more feats? It's not like you need to track your opponent. Hmm that opens up a lot of dorje options. Could be handy to look through them.


Would it be viable to make a sunder build?

Only against unsuspecting foes. Which reminds me at only 3,000 gp an adamantine weapon should be standard issue in any build. A +2 backup weapon might not be a bad idea either, or multiple +1 or masterwork backups. You can still sunder an adamantine weapon but it won't be worth your time.

[Taelas]

With Ranger you can throw in a Wolf (read: riding dog) animal companion for trips and flanking.

[Kyrthain]

The original poster mentions Vorpal being reduced to +3 cost, but based on the price they listed, I'm guessing that's a typo. 98,000, plus cost of masterwork weapon, is exactly enough to buy a +1 keen vorpal weapon without a cost drop.

So unless they are assuming anyone using a keen vorpal weapon has it be at least +3, it doesn't seem like they've reduced the price at all.

[tyckspoon]

^ Why not fighter over ranger for more feats? It's not like you need to track your opponent. Hmm that opens up a lot of dorje options. Could be handy to look through them.


Relative lack of feats to take in SRD material, and more importantly skills- you're going to be crossclassing Know: Psionics and History to get into Warmind, probably crossing UMD because why the heck wouldn't you, and you'll want Tumble in there as well if you can spare a couple more points in case somebody shows up with a Horizon Tripper (and.. well, SRD content, full BAB classes only.. somebody's going to, just for lack of effective choices.) Fighter just doesn't give enough skill points to make it work. Although I just noticed Warmind has a non-Chaotic alignment restriction, so you're going to be mixing with Fighter anyway unless somebody can think of a really good reason to use Paladin instead.

Edit: Also unlocked with access to the XPH: Skin of Proteus, always-available ML 7 Metamorphosis. There's gotta be some shenanigans this can be put to, even if it's just turning into a Troll and whomping on people with Large weapons.

[Hazzardevil]

I would do Paladin 9/Blackguard 6/Fighter 1

I could have 3 pets, each one dual weilding Vorpal daggers and I could dual weild Vorpal daggers and I'm pretty sure that the odds are in my favour seeing as I have a 16/20 chance of getting a 20 on the first round where everyone on my team gets a full attack.

Do I get a cookie?

Edit: I get more attacks than I thought.

But heres the sources for all the attacks:
4 vorpal hooves on a blackguard fiendish servant, 8 attacks if you are cheesy enough with blackguard and make an NPC With 20 fighter levels, 6 From yourself and 6 from your cohort, not to mention many more from your followers and you arm as many as you can with vorpal pitchforks.

[ffone]

SRD, only?

Don't suppose one can play a Marilith?


If not, play a monk.

Yes, you heard me.

Greater Flurry, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, an item with Haste. A pair of vorpal kama, and take improved trip and combat reflexes for extra attacks. The attack bonus doesn't matter, a natural 20 hits anyway, and that's the only thing that's going to kill them.

Vorpal requires 20 + confirm the crit, so your attack bonus matters. Exactly 5% of your *hits* will be vorpal hits, unless you have some special bonus or penalty to crit rolls (or other nuances like luck rerolls). So your vorpals / round will be proportionate to your hit probability, just like regular damage / round.

Power Critical feat gives +4 to confirm with one weapon type and requires Weapon Focus. Normally a stinker as is its prereq, but for this challenge it might be good.

[Psyren]

Edit: That is, assuming the Rules Compendium statement that Trigger items only take as long as their spells do is in effect, because the Psionics book itself makes all dorjes a standard action, which would be pointless. And they don't even have the 'well, they hadn't invented swift actions yet..' defense for that one.

The XPH may not predate Swift Actions, but it does predate Rules Compendium's clarification. It's pretty clear dorjes are meant to be psionic wands, so that ruling update should apply to them too.

[tyckspoon]

Hmm. Ok, file this under Completely Not In The Spirit Of The Thing: buy a Skin of Proteus. Become a Gray Ooze. Immune to vorpalization and you destroy armor and weapons. Wait until everybody else is naked, transform back, and laugh.

[JaronK]

I'm confused by the OP. They list Vorpal at +3, but they also suggest a Keen Vorpal weapon... did they intend Keen to work with Vorpal? If so, that would be extremely relevant.

JaronK

[Cieyrin]

Gah! I go to play SC2 for a couple hours and discover my thread has jumped to 3 pages. @_@

For people's personal edification, the blurb is all the info I have on the contest as well, as I don't know the people running it or anything of that sort. The blurb suggests to me that it's a PVP arena, though what kind of matches are involved, whether they be 1 vs. 1, Teams or FFA I have no idea, though I lean towards the first. As there's no mention of players being specifically immortal or anything, building with that in mind would be silly. That's what a coup de grace is for. :smallwink:

As for the Vorpal at +3 bit, I just read it at value. It was a suggestion by the organizers, though I suspect their suggestion to also Keen it is them forgetting how Vorpal works in 3.5, as Keening was useful with Vorpal in 3.0. It's also just flavorful for Highlander to use Vorpal for the beheading aspect, feel free to ignore or embrace at your leisure. Also should point out that you could just invest in Fortification in your armor to ignore other Vorpal, as you need to confirm a crit. Fortification makes you resistant and/or immune to vorpal, though I'd just go up to Medium, as 75% at +3 is more worthwhile than 100% at 5 unless you're that paranoid about it.

EDIT: Editing the original post so that there should be less confusion involved with what this all entails, hopefully.

[gorfnab]

How about a variant of the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415) with a Vorpal Guisarme or Halberd?

[ashockney]

Hello! I'm Andy, and I was one of the GM's for this event (thanks for the free pub!), and would be happy to answer any questions anyone had on it.

For the record, some great ideas in this thread, and I would have happily welcomed that Horizon build, very well done.

[Psyren]

Hello! I'm Andy, and I was one of the GM's for this event (thanks for the free pub!), and would be happy to answer any questions anyone had on it.

Were psionics allowed? Did anyone manage to squeeze in a War Mind build?

[Immonen]

Armor with any kind of Fortification helps- they can't decapitate you if their nat 20 doesn't count as a critical.

[Admiral Squish]

Has anyone mentioned whirling frenzy barbarian yet?

[Redshirt Army]

Whats going on with Vorpal? Is it +3 or +5? Does Keen work with it for contest purposes? Can you knock an immortal unconscious and behead them yourself, or is Vorpal required?

[The Glyphstone]

Hello! I'm Andy, and I was one of the GM's for this event (thanks for the free pub!), and would be happy to answer any questions anyone had on it.

For the record, some great ideas in this thread, and I would have happily welcomed that Horizon build, very well done.

Tell us who won?

[Zonugal]

Hmm. Ok, file this under Completely Not In The Spirit Of The Thing: buy a Skin of Proteus. Become a Gray Ooze. Immune to vorpalization and you destroy armor and weapons. Wait until everybody else is naked, transform back, and laugh.

I honestly think this is probably the best option if only for the versatility and surprise it will offer-up in the competition.

[Psyren]

I honestly think this is probably the best option if only for the versatility and surprise it will offer-up in the competition.

I think the contest is over though :smalltongue:

[ashockney]

No psionics allowed, I'm not a fan. No ToB. I am a fan, but wanted to keep it close.

It's all about the vorpal. The 40 immortal characters that were played by 14 players, all had their head lopped off but one. You will heal your full hit points at the beginning of each turn. :smallcool:

By far the majority of the characters played were premade.
Including Piergeron...
and Drizzt...
and Connor...
and The Kurgen...
and Duncan...

The winner was a premade character who was a Giant Warmain (using Arcana Unearthed). I'll see if I can reach out to the winner on FB to post here.

As the immortals battle, their immortal bloodlust builds, and they will quickly need to battle (back and forth) to swinging vorpal blades until there is only one.

A 20 is a vorpal. It supercedes all fortification.

It was recommended that the players take a +3 Vorpal blade (total of +8 enhancement). All the premades had them.

[The Glyphstone]

No psionics allowed, I'm not a fan. No ToB. I am a fan, but wanted to keep it close.

It's all about the vorpal. The 40 immortal characters that were played by 14 players, all had their head lopped off but one. You will heal your full hit points at the beginning of each turn. :smallcool:

By far the majority of the characters played were premade.
Including Piergeron...
and Drizzt...
and Connor...
and The Kurgen...
and Duncan...

The winner was a premade character who was a Giant Warmain (using Arcana Unearthed). I'll see if I can reach out to the winner on FB to post here.

As the immortals battle, their immortal bloodlust builds, and they will quickly need to battle (back and forth) to swinging vorpal blades until there is only one.

A 20 is a vorpal. It supercedes all fortification.

It was recommended that the players take a +3 Vorpal blade (total of +8 enhancement). All the premades had them.

Did anyone try bringing a character dual-wielding Vorpal weapons to maximize the chance of scoring that 20?

[Cieyrin]

Wait, Warmain? That's certainly different.

A friend of mine made a character for this who was going to GenCon and I wondered how he placed. His character was named Barbax Bonecrusher. Not sure what his build actually was, though...

[Psyren]

No psionics allowed, I'm not a fan.

But you guys said SRD! Pffft.
I wish someone had used the Horizon Tripper...

[TwylyghT]

Hmm leadership is in the SRD....

[tyckspoon]

Did anyone try bringing a character dual-wielding Vorpal weapons to maximize the chance of scoring that 20?

Drizzt is stereotypically dual-wielding, although I don't know if they would have provided him two vorpal weapons given the high cost of doing so; that pretty well eliminates any other gear.

[ashockney]

Did anyone try bringing a character dual-wielding Vorpal weapons to maximize the chance of scoring that 20?

Of course!

1 vorpal per character, clearly required to fulfill the spirit of the event.

[ashockney]

Drizzt is stereotypically dual-wielding, although I don't know if they would have provided him two vorpal weapons given the high cost of doing so; that pretty well eliminates any other gear.

Drizzt was a bad ass when wielding or dualwielding. He had but one vorpal, however.

[ashockney]

Hmm leadership is in the SRD....

And your henchman now face 39 other immortals, who complete heal every round, are martial badassery, and have vorpal blades.

Hmmm....

I appreciate the spirit of it!

[ProbablyDustin]

Hi all,

I was the winner of this great adventure. I can tell you that it was without a doubt some of the most fun my friends and I had over the course of the weekend (which is saying something since we were at Gen Con on a bachelor party trip). Can't give them enough praise for setting the atmosphere and keeping the energy up during the adventure while managing 14 players.

Those that we were there can attest that the final two face offs were really a flurry of D20 rolls as we tried to take each other out. At one point we were all wondering if the number 20 had simply been erased from both sets of dice.

Thanks again to everyone for you hard work in making it happen!

[Cieyrin]

ashockney, could you post the full rules that were in place, now that the event is over? I'm curious to see what the full rules were beyond the blurb we had to work with, especially as I'm interested to perhaps have a similar event at an upcoming local con and/or having a local PbP arena event.

[The Glyphstone]

This does sound like it was great fun to play, to a degree.

Being as little of a wet blanket as possible, though, I'd wonder what the purpose of actually differentiating the characters was - they all heal to full every round (HP is irrelevant), 20's auto-hit and auto-kill (attack bonus is irrelevant), and magic is disallowed (buffs are irrelevant), so you could stick Connor, Duncan, and JoeBob the Highlander Commoner in a fight naked with Vorpal swords and they'd all have equal chance of victory, just waiting for their natural 20. Unless I'm missing something huge, it must have been very boring to watch.

[CTrees]

And your henchman now face 39 other immortals, who complete heal every round, are martial badassery, and have vorpal blades.

Hmmm....

I appreciate the spirit of it!

-rules say the immortal must be a full BAB build, but nothing about cohorts
--cohort is an optimized batman wizard.
--cohort cast polymorph on you, turning you into an ooze or similar

Just for two quick examples, that. Leadership could take a lot of restrictions to make usable.

Otherwise... most clever things seem ruled out (full heals make a tripper build... less useful, multiple vorpal weapons are evidently out, fun ToB stuff is out, and I'm going to assume a subdual focused character would never be allowed to knock someone unconcious for long enough to coup de gras), so... I'm kinda with Glyphstone. Seems like you take a vorpal reach weapons, something to give a haste effect, and then everyone just takes turn rolling to see who hits twenty first. Can't see how that level of restriction is really fun.

If someone had taken items to get HiPS and a means to generate concealment, would you have allowed a stealth build? Or heck, reliable greater invisibility+spring attack+a silence effect?

[ArcanistSupreme]

This does sound like it was great fun to play, to a degree.

Being as little of a wet blanket as possible, though, I'd wonder what the purpose of actually differentiating the characters was - they all heal to full every round (HP is irrelevant), 20's auto-hit and auto-kill (attack bonus is irrelevant), and magic is disallowed (buffs are irrelevant), so you could stick Connor, Duncan, and JoeBob the Highlander Commoner in a fight naked with Vorpal swords and they'd all have equal chance of victory, just waiting for their natural 20. Unless I'm missing something huge, it must have been very boring to watch.

Well, then it comes down to other tactics, like trip/disarm lockdown builds. No sword=no chance of winning.

[CTrees]

Hrm, now that's an idea - optimize sunder, and build your vorpal weapon to protect it from disarm/sunder/steal.

Would that been allowed?

[TwylyghT]

Hmm leadership is in the SRD....


And your henchman now face 39 other immortals, who complete heal every round, are martial badassery, and have vorpal blades.

Hmmm....

I appreciate the spirit of it!


-rules say the immortal must be a full BAB build, but nothing about cohorts
--cohort is an optimized batman wizard.
--cohort cast polymorph on you, turning you into an ooze or similar

Just for two quick examples, that. Leadership could take a lot of restrictions to make usable.

Otherwise... most clever things seem ruled out (full heals make a tripper build... less useful, multiple vorpal weapons are evidently out, fun ToB stuff is out, and I'm going to assume a subdual focused character would never be allowed to knock someone unconcious for long enough to coup de gras), so... I'm kinda with Glyphstone. Seems like you take a vorpal reach weapons, something to give a haste effect, and then everyone just takes turn rolling to see who hits twenty first. Can't see how that level of restriction is really fun.

If someone had taken items to get HiPS and a means to generate concealment, would you have allowed a stealth build? Or heck, reliable greater invisibility+spring attack+a silence effect?

I was thinking more along the thought that with a few hundred attempts, your swarm of underling is certain to eventually succeed in gang pinning and disarming. Especially if your cohort is a bard inspiring the tide of fodder.

Even at their least effectiveness they can swarm the opponent to disrupt their movement options and make a metric ton of assist other attempts giving you massive bonuses to whatever you attempt.

[ashockney]

The intent of the battles are for face to face immortal vorpalling.

Round 1 - you have full use of your faculties and all your tricks
Round 2 - you have the use of most abilities, only the game breakers get hazy
Round 3 - you must make a decision to stand toe to toe and full attack or bolt, by this time you must also declare a single opponent

In the final battle, this applied only to the beginning of the WHOLE fight, once the grand melee began, it was a lot of dice vs. dice.

There were battles in the streets of Waterdeep to introduce the story and paint the setting.

There were 4 - 6 VERY challenging encounters that you had to work together on holy ground in the middle to "earn" your way to the final battle.

Once the final reckoning occurs, it is a grand melee in arena fashion.

Some relevant useful abilities included that were fully used included: sneak attack, spring attack, grappling, camoflage hiding, buffing, invisibility, improved invisibility, smite attacks, crushing blows (auto crit), and dual wielding.

A character reduced to 0 hp is disabled and can be coup de graced. A character grappled could be pinned, and coup de graced. It would take some luck.

There were a variety of other relevant combat abilities were not used, but available for the players to get some interesting and differentiated play. One of my favorite parts is that two of the evil immortals used stealth right before the last room to sneak behind the Paladin (Piergeron) and he got TRIPLE TEAMED at the start of the event! Needless to say, he didn't make it out of the round!

The intent of the module is NOT to create a "stand toe to toe" on the best character builds event. This would likely result in a building (only) exercise. This is more about exploring the challenges, fun, and craziness of playing a bunch of immortals...until there can be only one!

How you play was DIRECTLY relevant to your success in the adventure. How you rolled (20's in particularly) very important to your success.

Congrats to Dustin!

[The Glyphstone]

So it was more than just a straight-up arena slugfest/deathmatch, that's good to see. Now I wish I could have watched/played.


Would the proposed sunder-focused builds have been acceptable? I'm not up on Highlander lore, so I don't know if the immortal's swords were supposed to be as indestructible as they were - if not, I could see a 'break the other dude's sword, pray he's not strong enough to take mine away from me' build being both sneaky and effective without looking obviously evil.

[Cieyrin]

So it was more than just a straight-up arena slugfest/deathmatch, that's good to see. Now I wish I could have watched/played.


Would the proposed sunder-focused builds have been acceptable? I'm not up on Highlander lore, so I don't know if the immortal's swords were supposed to be as indestructible as they were - if not, I could see a 'break the other dude's sword, pray he's not strong enough to take mine away from me' build being both sneaky and effective without looking obviously evil.

Highlanders are just like any other immortals in that the true danger is they're highly skilled from centuries of experience. The weapon they use is just the one they've been carrying with them, it's not particularly special unless it was crafted that way (a Masamune or whatever).