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Keinnicht
2011-07-31, 12:04 PM
So, I'm planning on having a country of civilized orcs and goblins in my campaign setting. Naturally, these guys are going to be a little different from the standard wild, barbarous orc. Which means I have to change their stats a little bit. Here's what I'm thinking

Civilized Orc:

-+4 Strength, -2 Constitution, -2 Cha: The Civilized Orc keeps the strength of his ancestors, along with their bluntness and sometimes ill temper, but generations of relatively easy living have left the Civilized Orcs somewhat soft.
-Favored Class: Swordsage. Civilized Orcs love combat, but prefer to approach it through careful study and technique rather than blind rage and might.

Civilized Goblin:
-+2 Dex, -2 Str: The civilized goblin is small but fast, but lacks the uncouthness that characterizes his tribal cousins.

Civilized Half-Orc (As in, one parent was the above mentioned Civilized Orc.)
-+2 Str, -2 Con: The civilized half-orc shares the strength of his Civilized Orc parent, along with their weaker constitution.


Thoughts? I feel like this was the best way to balance it in terms of matching fluff and crunch, but I sort of feel like a large strength bonus (encouraging melee) combined with a constitution penalty (discouraging melee) sort of renders the character less likely to survive the thing he should be best at.

Meleemancer
2011-07-31, 12:16 PM
Personally I would use the Pathfinder Half-Orc, and knock down the strength of the Civilized Orc instead of giving them a con penalty. I would also use Warblade as the favored class. Still has them studying combat in a more formal setting, but they still manage to be big tough damage machines. I love this idea btw.

Pyromancer999
2011-07-31, 12:49 PM
I think Wizard's already been there, done that. I believe there is a similar race in Races of Destiny, if I remember right.

begooler
2011-07-31, 01:31 PM
I think Wizard's already been there, done that. I believe there is a similar race in Races of Destiny, if I remember right.

Maybe they have done this, but I don't believe its in Races of Destiny. That book might have some fluff to help you out though. Cityscape might also.

What about instead of a constitution penalty for those above, a wisdom penalty? Often the 'savage' (ugh I hate this word..) races have charisma and/or intelligence penalties, but don't have a penalty to their wisdom. Because of this, their spellcasters are often wisdom based.
Giving them a wisdom penalty in favor of the other mental stats would represent a cultural difference between the civilized and uncivilized, rather than a physical one.

Pyromancer999
2011-07-31, 07:49 PM
Maybe they have done this, but I don't believe its in Races of Destiny. That book might have some fluff to help you out though. Cityscape might also.

What about instead of a constitution penalty for those above, a wisdom penalty? Often the 'savage' (ugh I hate this word..) races have charisma and/or intelligence penalties, but don't have a penalty to their wisdom. Because of this, their spellcasters are often wisdom based.
Giving them a wisdom penalty in favor of the other mental stats would represent a cultural difference between the civilized and uncivilized, rather than a physical one.

Looked it up: It's called the Sharakim. It actually does a pretty good job of making civilized orcs, and you can change the fluff to suit your purpose. Also, it is in the Races of Destiny.

begooler
2011-07-31, 07:58 PM
Oh, yeah, Sharakim are a good example. Those are just for orcs though. Not exactly 'been there done that,' but a good starting point.

gkathellar
2011-07-31, 08:10 PM
I don't see why orcs being civilized should give them a Constitution penalty when any other race being civilized doesn't. Look at dwarves: bastions of civlization, Constitution bonus.

Pyromancer999
2011-08-01, 08:21 AM
Oh, yeah, Sharakim are a good example. Those are just for orcs though. Not exactly 'been there done that,' but a good starting point.

Yeah. It provides a good base for civilized versions of savage races.

Anathemata
2011-08-06, 05:02 PM
Be aware of the Forgotten Realms orc variant from 2e, the Ondonti. I always liked them, and they've got some cool fluff, although obviously they won't be that much help for stats.