What would Bodhi and Irenicus (BG2) be in 3.5/PF?

[Scarlet-Devil]

Irenicus was a 30th level Mage by 2nd edition rules, if that helps. His race is particularly confusing, but we know that he started as an Elf. We also know that he was able to cast epic level spells, and had invented some of his own (that mass cloning one and Rapture of the Father, which just kills the party), and has a whole lot of high level spell slots ('cause he hands out disintegrate and finger of death like candy).

Bodhi is an Elf Vampire, presumably a monk (because she's really fast, wears no armor, attacks a whole lot and hits hard with unarmed strikes (also drains three levels with every hit), and absorbs like every spell you throw at her). She's also supposedly CE though, which makes monk a little funky. Any other ideas on what she might be, in 3.5 or Pathfinder?

[Alleran]

Irenicus was an elf reincarnated into a human, with some sort of curse that prevented him from using magic to revert to an elven body.

That deals with race. As far as his actual levels go, you could compare it with other characters. Elminster, for example, is a 29th level mage under the AD&D rules, but jumped to 35th level in 3rd/3.5e D&D (taking into account his "lost" class levels). While I wouldn't quite boost Irenicus by a whole six caster levels, I wouldn't be averse to adding another two or even three onto the top. Given prestige classes, I might do something along these lines:

Wizard 17 / Elven Generalist 3 / Archmage 5 / Arcane Lord 7

Ensuring that he has the Epic Spellcasting feat and a boatload of Extra Slot and Improved Spell Capacity feats (plus the necessary metamagic to get him into Arcane Lord), it's a fairly simple build. You could add in another prestige class or two instead of the Wizard levels, but I don't really think that there's any PrC out there (none that I can recall offhand, at any rate) that really matches him well enough to be taken over straight wizard. And to be honest, straight wizard is powerful enough as it is anyway.

Note that I don't think Elven High Mage suits him. While he was definitely an archmage, and had a whole lot of magical power, he never seemed to be the sort who would demonstrate the necessary aptitude to become a Selu'taar. While he could construct magic on their scale through the use of Epic Spellcasting, that doesn't necessarily make him one.

[Shpadoinkle]

Barring monk, there's the obvious Unarmed Swordsage. A focus in Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand seem appropriate.

[Runestar]

I am tempted to make irenicus a sorc instead, seeing the way he throws spells around in the game.

Let's see...what are the spells he throws around?

Timestop, power words, wail of the banshee, maze ???

For bodhi, maybe a rogue/monk/swordsage combination?

[gkathellar]

I don't think Irenicus needs to go Epic. But then, I tend to think Epic is wholly unnecessary ...

Anyway, Irenicus could either be Wizard/Incantatrix, or Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus. Maybe a combination of the two.

Bodhi doesn't feel like a monk to me. She's not punching and kicking, but rather using her natural attacks. Maybe a Warblade entirely focused on Tiger Claw?

[Amnestic]

Divine Rank. Might not be much, probably just Divine Rank 0, but it's still there and I think quite relevant given the circumstances :smalltongue:

[Aricandor]

Yeah, for some reason I've always thought of Irenicus as a sorcerer. Obviously this isn't nearly the case if he's truly tagged as a mage though.
In the end, I'd probably go for some Ultimate Magus approach anyway. Having the fully levelled wizardly might backed up by sorcerous spamming for when he's going after weak foes (like using all his 6th through 8th level sorcerer slots on Disintegrate and Finger of Death). When you're in the high 20s/low 30s and fight gnats you don't really need to use your most powerful caster levels anyway. :smallsmile:

Doing Bodhi proper justice probably requires homebrew work. Even though I seem to recall her being a fighter by class, I've gotten quite used to and fond her in a modded setup with a bunch of rather interesting, vampiric-themed powers.
If that's not a practical option, then the warblade approach seems decent enough. The leaping and such through Tiger Claw would do well.

[Alleran]

Divine Rank. Might not be much, probably just Divine Rank 0, but it's still there and I think quite relevant given the circumstances :smalltongue:
Only from about Chapter 4-ish onwards, I think. After all, he didn't have it at the start of the game.

Funnily enough, I think you could probably give some reasonable arguments to Irenicus using the Dark Chaos Shuffle. He conducted a number of experiments with souls and the like, among them his abuse of that Cambion he was keeping imprisoned. Abusing the DCS to get reams of magic-boosting feats seems to be quite within the bounds of what he would be willing to do.


I don't think Irenicus needs to go Epic. But then, I tend to think Epic is wholly unnecessary ...
He's explicitly a 30th level wizard in AD&D, so yeah, he's Epic. One of the only reasons the PC and their party can defeat him is because of the backlash he was suffering at the time of the fight at the Tree.

[Darth_Versity]

Wizard 17 / Elven Generalist 3 / Archmage 5 / Arcane Lord 7



Anyway, Irenicus could either be Wizard/Incantatrix, or Wizard/Sorcerer/Ultimate Magus. Maybe a combination of the two.

Your both forgetting one thing. This is Forgotten Realms, all NPCs must be extremely pooly built with as much fluff and as little crunch as possible to reflect the 'flavour' of the character.

Therefor Irenicus should have about 5 different classes which have no synergy whatsoever and would cause massive XP penalties for multiclassing, and he should have 2 or maybe 3 levels of archmage to show how 'powerful' a spellcaster he is.

Maybe something like

Fallen Paladin 3/Rogue 1/Cleric 2/Monk 1/Wizard 17/Archmage 3

Obviously he has lost all abilities from the Paladin and Cleric levels so they provide nothing towards his character but HD. But its very 'flavourful'!

[Runestar]

As far as his actual levels go, you could compare it with other characters. Elminster, for example, is a 29th level mage under the AD&D rules, but jumped to 35th level in 3rd/3.5e D&D (taking into account his "lost" class levels).

Except that 6 of Elminster's class lvs does nothing to augment his existing spellcasting capabilities. So Irenicus doesn't really need any extra class lvs.

[Amnestic]

Only from about Chapter 4-ish onwards, I think. After all, he didn't have it at the start of the game.

True, but the only times you fight them they have their Divine Rank, and I assumed we were statting them from that :smalltongue:

[Alleran]

Except that 6 of Elminster's class lvs does nothing to augment his existing spellcasting capabilities. So Irenicus doesn't really need any extra class lvs.
Doesn't change the fact that he gained levels, though.

[Scarlet-Devil]

Barring monk, there's the obvious Unarmed Swordsage. A focus in Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand seem appropriate.

The problem with Swordsage, Warblade and such is that they don't really get all the stuff she has (high movement speed, unless you think that Absolute Steel or something is enough, and major spell resistance, mostly).


Bodhi doesn't feel like a monk to me. She's not punching and kicking, but rather using her natural attacks. Maybe a Warblade entirely focused on Tiger Claw?

Do Tiger Claw maneuvers allow you to make multiple Slam attacks though, as if they were unarmed strikes?

[Quarion Nailo]

Actually you're all just missing one spell:

RAPTURE OF THE FATHER

[Amnestic]

Well...it's kind of hard to deploy Rapture of the Father in that it's "No Save, You - and five of your friends - Die." There's no two ways about it. Not to mention it was only a...7th level spell in game if I recall correctly.

[tim01300]

Sorry for bumping such an old post but this is exactly the thing I am trying to do. I am planning on running BG2 and just removing the bhall essence from one main character and having irenicus just steal part of the souls of the party because they are powerful heroes.

Does anyone have more ideas on bodhi's build or her approx level?