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[agahii]

Before I post a build so far I'll give you some info. This is for an all books allowed campaign(dragon mag also), but unfortunately no home-brew. Class fluff is mailable as well. The game is 34 point buy.

The build so far (this is mildly changeable) is:
Half Orc Feral (both orc and human feats ect ruled to work)
Barb 1(lion totem)/ fighter 2 (dungeon crasher)/ War blade 3
Stats: Str 25 Dex 12 con 16 int 8 wis 10 cha 8 after all mods and a +1 to str at level 4

Feats: Power attack, shock trooper, Improved bullrush, Leap attack, knockback, and Jotunbrud(ruled to be ok for half orc, and to work with knockback)

Flaws, Shaky and weak will (I took Moment of Perfect Mind, and Action Before Thought maneuvers to help with bad saves)

Will be using a Guisarme for a main weapon.

So I feel this is a pretty nice melee character for the level I'm playing. The problem I'm running into is what to do next? I'd like a nice melee prestige class or some other non magical class. I'd like full BaB and some fairly powerful abilities, without getting into Vows and such via paladin ect. I considered just going warblade from here, but I can make pretty devastating full attack charges(pounce) so the standard action strikes don't allow for that(i'm mostly in it for as long as I am for a few stances and the counters I mentioned before).

Also what is your thought on half orc? Is the +2 str worth the trouble? I'm not exactly feat starved but I'm sure another one would be nice. Do you think the feat is better than the +2 str, if so what feat should I go for?

I'm not really going for a tanky feel with this, so I don't know about stand still ect. Going for a brute like DPS build with little regard for protecting people.

[Kefkafreak]

Why be a Half-Orc when you can be a (Water) Orc?

[agahii]

The world i'm playing in is mildly prejudice aginst monster races So I was going with a less monster looking guy. I was going to have his fluff be he mainly looks human ala the more human looking half orcs you sometimes see in forgotten realms book. Should have mentioned that sorry.

[Groverfield]

Feral will make you look like an ogre with hair

[Murmaider]

The world i'm playing in is mildly prejudice aginst monster races So I was going with a less monster looking guy. I was going to have his fluff be he mainly looks human ala the more human looking half orcs you sometimes see in forgotten realms book. Should have mentioned that sorry.

Does not sound very feral to me, actually:smalltongue:

The Dragonbron template(RotD) makes every race look more or less the same and comes with some handy dragonic aspect. None will notice the difference, if you actually were Human or Water Orc before your transformation.
Duno about the prejudice towards lawful good dragonpeople in the campaign you'll be playing in, but that would be the more 'optimized' option.

You should consider going into Warblade at level 5, so you can take level 2 maneuvers at Warblade level 1. Since half initiatorlevels are rounded down it is better to take a dip in another Non-martial Class that gives you nice stuff, like OA Samurai for an Ancestral Weapon. Ofcourse that is only if you don't plan on taking an odd number of levels in a PrC later on, even though few come to mind that are better than more levels of Warblade.

[agahii]

Well the only appearance changes in Feral are thus

"Feral creatures appear larger, tougher, and meaner than their more sophisticated cousins. Their feral nature tends to be obvious from their pronounced fangs and claws."

So yeah I'd look a little beastly, but not so much as to be run out of town like a full on Orc.

Thank you for the warblade entry advice, never thought about that. A third level of fighter would probably not be a good choice for the 4th level(3rd level fighter is empty) and barbarian is just uncanny dodge(I only get 1 ac from dex anyway), so what would be a good one in your opinion?

[faceroll]

I like my "half-orcs" to be half-minotaur water orcs. You can find half minotaur in DR313. It gives you +4 str and increases your size to large. The size increase explicitly gives you another +8 to str. Very solid way to get +12 to str for LA+1.

Note that by RAW, without racial HD, you're only getting fast healing, ability changes, and natural armor from feral.

Feats I would take would be extra rage and reckless rage, and use the whirling rage variant. Take two levels of barbarian; the first level trade out fast movement for pounce (lion totem), then pick up another level of barbarian for wolf totem, trading out uncanny dodge for improved trip. At third level, pick up knockdown. Whenever you do 10 or more damage on an attack, you get a free trip attempt. Whenever you successfully trip someone, improved trip gets you another attack 3.0 sword & fist errata says you don't get another attack with improved trip, but knockdown was reprinted in deities & demigods without that print. Ask your DM if you're getting double attacks, I guess.

I would contemplate picking up Brutal Throw at first level, and dual wield javelins. With whirling frenzy, you can huck two javelins a round. Anything in range that you can't get to on a charge, will die anyway. That gives you some versatility, anyway. Otherwise, nab power attack.

Dip a couple levels of fighter after the two levels of barbarian to flesh out any feats you're missing, then take warbalde all the way. If you ever find yourself looking for more tasty feats, two levels of the fighter rogue variant and two levels of psy warrior will get you 1 feat a level. Warblade is super good, though.

[Kefkafreak]

I don't think you get the size increase modifiers, that character was born Large.

[agahii]

I've seen the raw arguments on both sides of the fence on the feral template hd based abilities. I agree that class level counts as HD argument, and since I make all the house rules and determinations for my group(most knowledgeable though it isn't saying much), and I believe melee should have all the help it can get, class levels count as HD for feral in my group.

That aside, Can you take barbarian 1 again as a separate class and use a different variant? I never thought to do something like that, though I suppose you could considering the class name changes with a variant. Is there any raw support for doing that, because it is a fantastic idea if possible.

Does warblade help much though considering I can reliably full attack via pounce(standard action for strikes)? I figured warblade was better for non pounce using builds, though I could take another level later in order to get iron heart surge.

Thank you btw

[faceroll]

I don't think you get the size increase modifiers, that character was born Large.

It explicitly says in the stat block for the template that you get the size modifiers.


That aside, Can you take barbarian 1 again as a separate class and use a different variant? I never thought to do something like that, though I suppose you could considering the class name changes with a variant. Is there any raw support for doing that, because it is a fantastic idea if possible.

Wolf Totem Barbarian is a Variant Class; Spirit Lion Totem is an Alternate Class Feature. They're interchangeable. Your class is Wolf Totem Barbarian and you took the Lion Spirit Totem alternate class feature at level 1.

That said, to answer the generals of your question, no, you may not multiclass in different variants- you can't take fighter 2/thug fighter 2, for instance.

From the SRD (from UA):
Multiclassing And Variant Classes

Multiclassing between variants of the same class is a tricky subject. In cases where a single class offers a variety of paths (such as the totem barbarian or the monk fighting styles), the easiest solution is simply to bar multiclassing between different versions of the same class (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). For variants that are wholly separate from the character class—such as the bardic sage or the urban ranger—multiclassing, even into multiple variants of the same class, is probably okay. Identical class features should stack if gained from multiple versions of the same class (except for spellcasting, which is always separate).

In any case, only the first version of a favored class is treated as favored; a halfling rogue/wizard who later begins gaining levels in the wilderness rogue variant class can't treat both the rogue and wilderness rogue classes as favored, only the class gained first (in this case, rogue). Under no circumstances does spellcasting ability from multiple classes (even variants of the same class) stack. A character with levels of bard and levels of bardic sage has two separate caster levels and two separate sets of spells per day, even though the classes are very similar.

[agahii]

Ah gotcha thanks.

[faceroll]

Curious to know what you end up going, and how it works out. I've played with feral a bit. Fast healing is really nice. Always topped off and ready to go every combat.

[agahii]

Oh, I will definitly go with your idea of Wolf Totem Barbarian Variant Class with the Spirit Lion Totem as an Alternate Class Feature to barb 1, and drop one level of warblade taking the first level at 5. I will likely take my level 20 (theoretical dunno how long the campaign will be) in warblade so as to get the best maneuver(s) possible for whatever my effective warblade level is. Still unsure on the other 13 levels though.

I considered frenzied berserker just for laughs, or more realisticly fighter so I can get the upgraded dungeoncrasher and some more feats (maybe Zhentreium(sp) fighter alt class feature as well).

[Wings of Peace]

Oh, I will definitly go with your idea of Wolf Totem Barbarian Variant Class with the Spirit Lion Totem as an Alternate Class Feature to barb 1, and drop one level of warblade taking the first level at 5. I will likely take my level 20 (theoretical dunno how long the campaign will be) in warblade so as to get the best maneuver(s) possible for whatever my effective warblade level is. Still unsure on the other 13 levels though.

I considered frenzied berserker just for laughs, or more realisticly fighter so I can get the upgraded dungeoncrasher and some more feats (maybe Zhentreium(sp) fighter alt class feature as well).


Just emphasizing what's already been said, take the Whirling Frenzy acf! Also, if your DM is really allowing all books take Generic Warrior instead of Fighter.

[Person_Man]

Half Orc is one of the weakest races out there. If you want a Dungeoncrasher combo, the traditional choice is Goliath, for access to the Knockback feat (Races of Stone), which grants you a free Bull Rush on every Power Attack.

If you prefer not to use Goliath (presumably because you don't like the Level Adjustment) but still want to use Dungeoncrasher reliably, you can also get additional Bull Rush checks from the Shield of the Severed Hand (Complete Divine pg 102 or MIC) and/or Brutal Surge weapons (MIC). You might also want to consider being a Dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) or Raptorian (Races of the Wild) for wings, so that you can Bull Rush people into the floor from above.

Also, are you more wedded to the idea of just knocking people far away from you, or do you just want massive damage? And what ECL do you expect this game to go up to?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

As others have said, use Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ).

You can easily afford a Hat of Disguise to avoid the monstrous appearance. At ECL 7, you'll have had sufficient time to gain a reputation as a hero of the land despite being a monster, regardless of appearance. Armbands of Might are highly recommended.

I'll agree that Half-Minotaur would serve you better than Feral, consider the following:
Feral Half-Orc: Str +6, Dex -2, Con +2, Int -6, Wis +2, Cha -2, +6 natural armor, +10 ft. movement, only one relevant natural attack (Bite) since you're using a 2h weapon, Pounce is redundant. Fast Healing is the big selling point, with questionable interpretations. +1 LA.
Half-Minotaur Half-Orc: Str +14, Dex -2, Con +6, Int -4, Cha -2, +4 natural armor, +10 ft. movement, one natural attack (Gore), Track, Scent, +2 Listen, Search, and Spot. Large size, so you save a feat, or keep Jotunbrud to get an extra +4 to opposed checks. +1 LA.
Half-Minotuar Orc: As Half-Minotaur Half-Orc, but an extra Str +2, Con +2, Wis -2.

Definitely get the second level of Wolf-Totem Barbarian, and use your natural attack to trip before making your primary weapon attacks.

Get a Ring of Feather Falling for cinematic Leap Attacks:
Charge toward opponent, leap into the air, weapon raised over your head;
Everything goes into slow motion!
Make a flurry of attacks while still in the air, opponent gets slammed into the ground and bounces back up every time you hit him.

[faceroll]

Note: Half-minotaur gives you +2 wisdom. It's a pretty OP template.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Note: Half-minotaur gives you +2 wisdom. It's a pretty OP template.

No it doesn't, according to Dragon 313 page 94. It was often mistakenly reported as granting +2 Wis, but that is completely incorrect.

[agahii]

Hmm apparently half minotaurs can look pretty much human so that is actually really great, though the hat of disguise route would be fine I suppose.

I do doubt this character will get to hero status however, as I'm playing him as a bit of a jerk(non evil but not nice neutral), though amongst a good party so maybe hero by association.

I'll grab Whirling Frenzy too since it looks pretty good.

[faceroll]

Hmm apparently half minotaurs can look pretty much human so that is actually really great, though the hat of disguise route would be fine I suppose.

I do doubt this character will get to hero status however, as I'm playing him as a bit of a jerk(non evil but not nice neutral), though amongst a good party so maybe hero by association.

I'll grab Whirling Frenzy too since it looks pretty good.

I think he meant hero as in "kill dragons with a weapon that's as large as a man".