Advice on what class to play...

[SirRedcrosse]

My group is starting a new campaign soon and I'm debating between playing a Factotum or a Binder. Mechanically, I like the Factotum, but for role-playing I like the flavor of the Binder.

I'm going to be in a party with a Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader, a Dread Necromancer, and a Druid. What do you guys think would compliment my party more?

Thanks

[byaku rai]

They seem to be somewhat at a loss for a skill monkey, so I think a Factotum would certainly help there... Assuming, of course, that the DM uses skills. I've known some (myself included, at times) who just wave it away for the most part.

[NNescio]

They seem to be somewhat at a loss for a skill monkey, so I think a Factotum would certainly help there... Assuming, of course, that the DM uses skills. I've known some (myself included, at times) who just wave it away for the most part.

Binder -> Chameleon can cover the skillmonkey role really well. Not as good as the jack-of-all-trades Factotum, but having selective specialization can really shine if you know what you are up against.

[JaronK]

No one in there has Trapfinding, so I'd go with Factotum. One wacky option would be Binder/Beguiler/Anima Mage, I suppose.

JaronK

[Eldariel]

Factotum has an extremely restricted access to Wizard/Sorc list which you're currently missing outside Dread Necro (which doesn't get the majority of it) and Rogue-type skill monkery (which you're currently missing; while all of them have decent skills, nobody has the Rogue-level manipulation capabilities). I think Factotum would fit quite perfectly.

Make a Factotum who has gained his skills and magical aptitude through Pacts with eldritch entities? :smallbiggrin:

[SirRedcrosse]

No one in there has Trapfinding, so I'd go with Factotum. One wacky option would be Binder/Beguiler/Anima Mage, I suppose.

JaronK

Me likey the Binder/Beguiler/Anima mage suggestion. :smallsmile: I think i'll look into that. If I can't seem to make that work out, then I'll probably go and make a Factotum.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[marcielle]

Factotums can UMD any Wiz/Sorc spell wothout a check so I'd say go Factotum. Also, an eternal wand of Nerveskitter(immediate +5 to init) will serve you well throughout your entire adventuring carrer. Remember that thanks to Rules compendium, spell completion items now take as long as the actual spell normally would. Damage output seems taken care of so you don't really need to bother with quickrazor shenanigans.

[Psyren]

Be sure you start with Beguiler - both for the skill points, and so your party has trapfinding from the outset.

[Greenish]

Factotums can UMD any Wiz/Sorc spell wothout a check so I'd say go Factotum.No, they can't.

First, if you can activate spell trigger or spell completion items via the virtue of having said spell on your list, it's not using UMD the skill.

Second, factotums don't cast spells, and don't have a spell list. They will need to use UMD to activate spell trigger and spell completion items.


Also, to use Eternal Wands, you need to be arcane caster. I'm not sure factotum qualifies.


Damage output seems taken care of so you don't really need to bother with quickrazor shenanigans.I hope you realize magic items cost money (WBL is a valuable resource, perhaps the most valuable one after actions). Not that magic items were that good for blasting anyhow.

[Tvtyrant]

No, they can't.

Also, to use Eternal Wands, you need to be arcane caster. I'm not sure factotum qualifies.



Or 1 level of Cleric with Magic Domain and Trickery Domain so you don't really lose anything, gain proficiencies and UMD free access to low level wands, and a source of Turn Undead for whatever cheese you want to attack :smallyuk:

[Greenish]

Or 1 level of Cleric with Magic Domain and Trickery Domain so you don't really lose anything, gain proficiencies and UMD free access to low level wands, and a source of Turn Undead for whatever cheese you want to attack :smallyuk:Magic domain's granted power doesn't cover Eternal Wands. Otherwise, of course, cleric 1 is an excellent dip.

[Tvtyrant]

Magic domain's granted power doesn't cover Eternal Wands. Otherwise, of course, cleric 1 is an excellent dip.

You are correct, and I then suggest just using the eternal wand from your Beguiler levels, since its keyed off any arcane casting.

[Greenish]

You are correct, and I then suggest just using the eternal wand from your Beguiler levels, since its keyed off any arcane casting.I was merely pointing out that factotum doesn't do what it was claimed to do, and clarifying the magic domain (since it's easy to overlook the fact that Eternal Wands aren't spell trigger items, despite the name).

[Tvtyrant]

I was merely pointing out that factotum doesn't do what it was claimed to do, and clarifying the magic domain (since it's easy to overlook the fact that Eternal Wands aren't spell trigger items, despite the name).

No problem, I misunderstood the point of your original post as being about the above build. Now that I understand what your getting at (and looked up eternal wands) I completely agree with you.

On an unrelated note, a Beguiler Anima Mage terrifies me inside.

[marcielle]

Second, factotums don't cast spells, and don't have a spell list.
Is this some wierd RAW thing? If they draw from the Wiz/Sorc list, should't it be their list as well?
Sorry, not really a rules lawyer:smalltongue:

[NNescio]

Is this some wierd RAW thing? If they draw from the Wiz/Sorc list, should't it be their list as well?
Sorry, not really a rules lawyer:smalltongue:

Well, it's sort of like a vanilla Succubus with Charm Monster. Charm Monster is not on her spell list --it's an SLA.

[JaronK]

Is this some wierd RAW thing? If they draw from the Wiz/Sorc list, should't it be their list as well?
Sorry, not really a rules lawyer:smalltongue:

They don't actually have spells, so no spell list. This is one of the places where that fact matters.

They do have a caster level, though.

JaronK

[marcielle]

Looked it up. Under 'spell trigger' in the SRD.
Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.)

Unless the LIST they draw spells from is different from and actual spell list they should be able to use spell trigger item, though maybe not a spell completion, since that says you need to be able to CAST the spell unlike spell trigger.

I cannot find an entry that states spell list is anything other than the list from which you may choose your spells. Wether the fact that you do not actually cast them will prevent you from using them is probably in the realms od DM call.

This was a quick search though, I STILL may be wrong.

[Tvtyrant]

But they still have to be able to "cast" in order to use spell trigger items. A Balor cannot use wands of its SLAs, nor can a Pit Fiend.

[marcielle]

But they still have to be able to "cast" in order to use spell trigger items. A Balor cannot use wands of its SLAs, nor can a Pit Fiend.

Is that in the PHB or something? I am using SRD cos I'm cheap and it says nothing about actually haveing to be able to cast. At all. My post earlier contained a copypasta from SRD and it specifically says 'even for a character that can't actually cast spells'.

[Greenish]

Factotums don't have a spell list because they never, in any point of their career, learn to actually cast spells.

[King Atticus]

Second, factotums don't cast spells, and don't have a spell list. They will need to use UMD to activate spell trigger and spell completion items.

True enough. For a upcoming dungeon I'm going to be playing, I put together a Factotum, I started with a level of Spellthief to get wand abilities. It's probably not optimized but it keeps relatively high HD and skill points while giving access to spell completion stuff. It doesn't give any of the blasty spells but for utility stuff like Nerveskitter, Knock, Grease, etc. it seems to work out pretty good.

[Siosilvar]

Looked it up. Under 'spell trigger' in the SRD.
Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.)

Unless the LIST they draw spells from is different from and actual spell list they should be able to use spell trigger item, though maybe not a spell completion, since that says you need to be able to CAST the spell unlike spell trigger.

I cannot find an entry that states spell list is anything other than the list from which you may choose your spells. Wether the fact that you do not actually cast them will prevent you from using them is probably in the realms od DM call.

This was a quick search though, I STILL may be wrong.

Factotums (Factoti?) don't choose spells from the sor/wiz spell list.

They get spell-like abilities that mimic spells from the sor/wiz spell list.

[Greenish]

Factotums (Factoti?)According to my dictionary, the word traces it's roots from Latin phrases, but isn't actually a Latin word itself, so "factotums" should be the correct plural.

[Undercroft]

Go the binder/beguiler/anima mage route.

although a binder with chameleon dip is pretty interesting. I love flexable characters. Go with changling race and you can be a new person every day :P

[SirRedcrosse]

On an unrelated note, a Beguiler Anima Mage terrifies me inside.

:smallconfused: Why does it terrify you inside?

[Tvtyrant]

:smallconfused: Why does it terrify you inside?

Free metamagic on a synergistic chasis that casts from its list and can be a melee powerhouse one day and whatever else it wants the next? It might not be as much of a monster as an op Druid, but its pretty amazing in its own right.

[marcielle]

Factotums (Factoti?) don't choose spells from the sor/wiz spell list.

They get spell-like abilities that mimic spells from the sor/wiz spell list.

I think I actually UNDERSTAND that. Thanks.