It is FINALLY possible to play a Werewolf in 4th Edition [Archive]

NecroRebel

2011-08-01, 10:26 PM

Seems a bit underwhelming mechanically, though I guess it might have some good powers available later in its career... Unfortunately, I half-expect it to be mostly an attempt to draw in the "vampires and werewolves and such are awesome!" crowd and, as a result, be rushed out without really being a good fit in the game mechanically, and probably with flavor that doesn't really mesh with the rest either.

Most of all, I'm somewhat disappointed that it's a Theme, though; I sort of dislike the concept.

Dimers

2011-08-01, 10:26 PM

Also, Vampire-Werewolf? Totally doable.

Could pretty easily be a vampire werewolf mage, even. :smallsmile:

Fox Box Socks

2011-08-01, 11:16 PM

I mean, we're only seeing the level 1 feature, presumably it gets better as it levels. Interestingly, since the bite has no weapon type, Master at Arms is more or less mandatory if you're going to melee in wolf form. From what I see, they'll make exceptional Warlocks, who aren't dependent on melee weapons and generally prefer to move around.

And I'm 100% positive that Themes are the best way to handle something like lycanthropy. It's not a feat investment, and in general being a werewolf is something that you are, rather than something that you do. This way there can be Werewolf Fighters, Werewolf Wizards, etc.

Daftendirekt

2011-08-01, 11:25 PM

Really, a Vampire theme would have been the way to go, too. Vampirism should not be the only thing about you. It was a template in 3.5, and I think that themes could easily become the templates of 4e.

Fox Box Socks

2011-08-01, 11:46 PM

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-08-01, 11:46 PM

Could pretty easily be a vampire werewolf mage, even. :smallsmile:
Why stop there? Have a look at the race list. You can be a vampire werewolf mage changeling!

Fox Box Socks

2011-08-01, 11:47 PM

Requirements are either Human, Half-Elf or Half-Orc. So Changeling is out.

Daftendirekt

2011-08-01, 11:48 PM

Don't quote me on this, but the rationale for Vampire as a class was that they thought people who wanted to play Vampires wanted to do something vampire-like every round of combat rather than once per fight.

But Werewolves? Like it or not, there's just not as much there there. At-will power to turn into a wolf. Done.

Main things about vampires? Dominating gaze. Blood sucking. Flight. Weakness to the sun.

Do any of those things sound like at-will powers? No. The vampire's at wills are pretty much just a slam and a charm anyway. I think a vampire theme would have worked fine.

Zaq

2011-08-02, 01:19 AM

Damn, human only? I guess that means we can't turn the Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich into a Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf. We'll have to settle for just a boring old Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf, which is obviously so much less cool.

That said . . . I don't really see any downside to staying in wolf form pretty much all day, do you? Just pick magic items with useful properties instead of useful powers, and you've got a +1 typeless bonus to speed as long as you want.

Hmm, actually, wait, we might be able to pull off the Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf. Start with a normal Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf, then die. Have a vryloka cast Vryloka Bloodbond on you, and agree to become a vryloka. Unfortunately, that MIGHT make you become a vryloka and not a revenant vryloka, so you'd only be a Vampire Vampire Vampire Lich Werewolf, effectively swapping Zombie for Werewolf. This is troublesome. WE NEED MORE.

Kurald Galain

2011-08-02, 05:03 AM

Seems a bit underwhelming mechanically,
This. It's just the druid shapeshift power; you could have played a "werewolf" with that years ago when the PHB2 first came out.

Not that this is a werewolf, really. Shifting into a differently-named but identically-statted form is not what lycanthropy is all about.

Fox Box Socks

2011-08-02, 08:21 AM

It's basically "give up your ability to drink potions to gain +1 speed and a longsword in your mouth".

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-08-02, 01:27 PM

It's basically "give up your ability to drink potions to gain +1 speed and a longsword in your mouth".
Sounds cool to me.

Also, one advantage this has over the Druid's polymorph is that it's a theme power, not a class power. You can swap it into any class, and said benefit can be very useful for some classes...especially if the character is disarmed.

Renchard

2011-08-02, 02:02 PM

This. It's just the druid shapeshift power; you could have played a "werewolf" with that years ago when the PHB2 first came out.

Not that this is a werewolf, really. Shifting into a differently-named but identically-statted form is not what lycanthropy is all about.
Well, it's a pretty terrible werewolf because it's not actually a werewolf, it's just an Uthgardt barbarian with a nature power.

I'd like to see them do Werewolf as a hybrid-only class, like what Vampire should have been. Vampires aren't very good; Hybrid Vamps are pretty awesome.

Sorcerer Blob

2011-08-02, 04:54 PM

I second that Vampire Hybrids rock.

As far as the theme itself goes? Even though we have only the first level of it is better than some of the other first level theme selections in Dragon 399.

Now, combine this theme with a Longtooth Shifter (whom I always considered a Were anyways with it's Regen upon Bloodied ability and appearance) and viola! Were-wolf without the need for a class.

That said, I still want to see the class. Here's hoping the Heroes of the Feywild rumors are more than just rampant speculation.

Blazen

2011-08-02, 06:55 PM

Can't go with Shifters. Humans and Halves only.

On that note, don't the themes usually have powers available for higher levels? Overall this theme seems rather meh without knowing what else it gets. Though I will play it for the sole purpose of making a Werepire.

Kurald Galain

2011-08-02, 07:03 PM

You can swap it into any class, and said benefit can be very useful for some classes...especially if the character is disarmed.
You can also take multiclass druid on any class to obtain its "shapeshift" power. Just sayin'.

I'm rather surprised to read that the hybrid vampire gains pretty much everything worth taking from a regular vamp, plus benefits from its other half of course. Normally I would have thought this a mistake and cause for errata, but the huge announced biyearly errata has since passed and not touched this, so it's probably intentional on WOTC's part.

Blackfang108

2011-08-02, 07:44 PM

Can't go with Shifters. Humans and Halves only.

Which is stupid.

Fox Box Socks

2011-08-02, 09:14 PM

Hybrid Vampires make frighteningly effective Paladins. Like, scary good.

Sorcerer Blob

2011-08-02, 10:30 PM

Hybrid Vampires make frighteningly effective Paladins. Like, scary good.

I will have to give this a go sometime. I made a Vamp-Cleric and it's a pretty decent Striker and Leader. The Divine Vampire feat is pretty much worth taking at level 1 (and gets rid of the vulnerable 5 Radiant!)

Daftendirekt

2011-08-03, 12:50 AM

Hybrid Vampires make frighteningly effective Paladins. Like, scary good.

Guess I'll have to wait until they put that in the character builder before I can try it out.

surfarcher

2011-08-03, 01:16 AM

CBLoader+WotC.index=fun

Sception

2011-08-03, 06:53 AM

Since when are hybrid vampires any good? none of their benefits particularly synergize with whatever you hybrid them with. If you're just doing it for fluff, you might as well just take the multiclass feat, which gets you all the same undead features. IMO, if you're going vampire, you might as well go all the way. That way you can at least be a good vampire, even if you're not a strong character.

Rumor is there might be werewolves as a class in a future fey themed sourcebook.

Gryffon

2011-08-03, 07:57 AM

Not sure which source is more correct, but according to this article: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20110711, the Pack Outcast Theme will be in the Neverwinter setting book, and has a race prereq of Human or Shifter.

And just above it is the Uthgardt barbarian. It looks like in the original link, it has part of both themes.

tenshiakodo

2011-08-03, 08:06 AM

Another way to make use of this Theme is to use a Ki Focus, I would think.

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-08-03, 02:52 PM

You can also take multiclass druid on any class to obtain its "shapeshift" power. Just sayin'.

Yeah, but it costs you a feat. Themes don't.

Dimers

2011-08-03, 03:03 PM

Yeah, but it costs you a feat. Themes don't.

For that matter, it costs you a feat, requires certain ability scores, and prevents you from multiclassing in any other way (unless you're a lycanthropic bard, of course).

Kurald Galain

2011-08-03, 03:21 PM

For that matter, it costs you a feat, requires certain ability scores, and prevents you from multiclassing in any other way (unless you're a lycanthropic bard, of course).
Sure, and taking the theme prevents you from taking another theme, and locks you out from most races in the game.

The OP says that "finally it is possible"; I'm merely pointing out that no, this was already possible two years ago.

BlckDv

2011-08-03, 03:45 PM

Likewise, Shifters have had the Moonbound PP for quite some time that gives them full shape shifting as well. Given that they are already Shifters; that seems at least as "real" a Were as the new one.

Delusion

2011-08-03, 03:48 PM

So, not only is it possile to be vampire vampire vampire vampire lich, it is now possible to play vampire vampire vampire vampire werewolf lich.

Urpriest

2011-08-03, 04:29 PM

Another way to make use of this Theme is to use a Ki Focus, I would think.

Doesn't matter, the weapon already uses your primary weapon's enhancement bonus. Unless you were thinking of using the Ki Focus as an implement, monk-style?

Pokonic

2011-08-03, 04:34 PM

Finaly, my dream to be a vampire werewolf mage changeling is now compleate.:smallbiggrin:

Blackfang108

2011-08-03, 06:08 PM

Finaly, my dream to be a vampire werewolf mage changeling is now compleate.:smallbiggrin:

OK, I see the Vampire and Mage (Hybrid Vampire|Wizard(Mage)).

I see the Werewolf (Theme)

Changeling?

you can only be Human or Half(Elf?)

Pokonic

2011-08-03, 06:33 PM

It was a joke, honestly. The Changeling part was half-elf, not the actual race.

Zaq

2011-08-03, 07:16 PM

So, not only is it possile to be vampire vampire vampire vampire lich, it is now possible to play vampire vampire vampire vampire werewolf lich.

Not quite, unless you're using a different mix than I am.

Damn, human only? I guess that means we can't turn the Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich into a Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf. We'll have to settle for just a boring old Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf, which is obviously so much less cool.

That said . . . I don't really see any downside to staying in wolf form pretty much all day, do you? Just pick magic items with useful properties instead of useful powers, and you've got a +1 typeless bonus to speed as long as you want.

Hmm, actually, wait, we might be able to pull off the Vampire Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf. Start with a normal Vampire Vampire Zombie Lich Werewolf, then die. Have a vryloka cast Vryloka Bloodbond on you, and agree to become a vryloka. Unfortunately, that MIGHT make you become a vryloka and not a revenant vryloka, so you'd only be a Vampire Vampire Vampire Lich Werewolf, effectively swapping Zombie for Werewolf. This is troublesome. WE NEED MORE.

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-08-05, 01:40 PM

Finaly, my dream to be a vampire werewolf mage changeling is now compleate.:smallbiggrin:
Lol, I'm not the only one!

Blackfang108

2011-08-05, 06:31 PM

It was a joke, honestly. The Changeling part was half-elf, not the actual race.

...

I feel silly.

I completely forgot Changeling was a D&D race...

And there's one in my main party....

Zaq

2011-08-05, 07:17 PM

...

I feel silly.

I completely forgot Changeling was a D&D race...

And there's one in my main party....

That means they're doing it right. Nothing to see here, friend. Just another gnome going about her business.

Shatteredtower

2011-08-05, 10:18 PM

Hmm... open to humans or shifters, with the possibility of half-elves and half-orcs. It's at-will power is a minor action that lets you shift 1 square whenever you use it. You eventually gain a minor power bonus to two skill checks, which is nothing to write home about, but that benefit comes several levels after you automatically gain combat advantage against adjacent enemies, as does any ally adjacent to those same enemies. Three utility powers, though the one that knocks a target prone might be the most useful, especially since Soul of the Wolf grants a +2 power bonus to the same skill checks as the class feature gained at the same level. (I'm pretty sure one of those is going to get changed to a racial bonus.)

Eh, it's a living.

For some reason, I'm stuck on the image of a wolf having an easier time climbing walls. That seems off somehow.

Blackfang108

2011-08-06, 11:38 AM

That means they're doing it right. Nothing to see here, friend. Just another gnome going about her business.

No, no, our characters know full well.

We just haven't played that campaign since April.

stainboy

2011-08-06, 02:25 PM

Main things about vampires? Dominating gaze. Blood sucking. Flight. Weakness to the sun.

That's one approach, but if you want a whole class there's easily enough material. Here's a list off the top of my head, just of powers that appear in at least two different IPs:

Blood-draining bite attack
Energy drain touch
Charm/Dominate gaze
Turn into a bat or wolf
Gaseous Form
Summon wolves
Summon swarms (bats or rats)
Turn into a swarm (bats or rats)
Blood missiles
Necrotic missiles
Short range teleport
Turn into a hybrid bat monster
Claws
Telekinesis
Flight
Super strength
Super speed
Magical control of the blood in other people's bodies / long range blood drain
Shadow control
Time Stop / time control

That's a lot of stuff. And I didn't even include passive defenses. Or things 4e wouldn't like like Create Spawn. Or weird stuff that I can only source to one IP like flesh cathedrals or sharkman form.