Does KOTOR 2 annoy anyone else?

[druid91]

I mean it's all good and I'm having fun... then I get to the end and bam the whole game just falls to pieces and I have no Idea what's going on.

Then there are all the stupid deaths. Oh you set this trap to overload this terminal to kill the swarm of laigreks chasing you? Well it also explodes the two rooms next to it and the hallway nd the lightning arcs a ridiculous distance, as well as being an instant kill. It is an instant kill even when I used cheats to boost my level and CON to get my HP into the 700 range.

I've downloaded that restored content mod but it's a bit hard to go through everything without cheating so I haven't seen it's ending yet.

[VanBuren]

Apart from the fact that the graphics were dated upon release, it annoyed that it sometimes tried to be too much like the first one. The combat also became noticeably unbalanced at several points.

But I still really liked the game.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

It was fun and had great promise. But they rushed it and it shows.

[Jeivar]

YEEESSS! I have never been as bitter about a game before or since!

I hated half the party members.

I hated how the influence system worked, and how it steered me away from roleplaying properly and speaking my mind, so as not to alienate the characters and lose out on their dialogue options.

I hated the constant depressing philosophising.

I hated that the game basically forces you to agree with all of Kreia's crap in order to get unique Feats.

I hated the retcons regarding the Mandalorian war.

I DESPISED the fact that it made the Light Side / Dark Side choice of the first game completely irrelevant; The Republic and the Jedi are in just as dire straits regardless. It made the epic, heroic struggles of Revan and co insignificant. And they could have avoided this by just making the Light Side ending canon.

And more than anything else I hated the idea that Revan never really fell to the Dark Side, but rather became a conquering monster for the greater good. It destroys the whole "Quest For Redemption"/"Even The Great Can Fall" theme of KOTOR 1. And it makes the protagonist of KOTOR 1 into an infallible ubermensch rather than a flawed human being.

So as not to sound like a total raving anti-fanboy, I will admit that the game improved on KOTOR 1's gameplay in many ways, especially the skill and crafting system, but overall the game felt like a punch to the balls.

[druid91]

YEEESSS! I have never been as bitter about a game before or since!

I hated half the party members.

I hated how the influence system worked, and how it steered me away from roleplaying properly and speaking my mind, so as not to alienate the characters and lose out on their dialogue options.

I hated the constant depressing philosophising.

I hated that the game basically forces you to agree with all of Kreia's crap in order to get unique Feats.

I hated the retcons regarding the Mandalorian war.

I DESPISED the fact that it made the Light Side / Dark Side choice of the first game completely irrelevant; The Republic and the Jedi are in just as dire straits regardless. It made the epic, heroic struggles of Revan and co insignificant. And they could have avoided this by just making the Light Side ending canon.

And more than anything else I hated the idea that Revan never really fell to the Dark Side, but rather became a conquering monster for the greater good. It destroys the whole "Quest For Redemption"/"Even The Great Can Fall" theme of KOTOR 1. And it makes the protagonist of KOTOR 1 into an infallible ubermensch rather than a flawed human being.

So as not to sound like a total raving anti-fanboy, I will admit that the game improved on KOTOR 1's gameplay in many ways, especially the skill and crafting system, but overall the game felt like a punch to the balls.

To be honest The only new party member I liked was GOTO. And I pretty much have spent my entire time playing with GOTO, HK, T3, And Mandalore.

Except when it required me to play with others.

Atton, was just kind of bland, I didn't hate him like some of the new characters (Mira/hanharr I'm looking at you)

Mira was just plain annoying, like an older mission.

Hanharr was also annoying, like Zaalbar without the character and EVIL added.

Mandalore, wasn't bad... As I said I liked him he was an ok companion.

The iridonian (Dangit I can only remember what HK called him.) Was just kind of boring, the others you could talk to without having around all the time... but he had to be with you on adventures to get even basic conversations. Unless he was interacting with someone else.

Kriea... Yeah she simply screamed betrayer from the beginning.

Visas... Was visas. I ignored her for the whole trip. I left her shut in that little room all on her own. The only interaction I had with her was to cut the lightsaber out of her hand. And she still pulled the lovebird lines out.

Handmaiden, not quite as annoying as Visas, more like Atton.

Even of those characters I liked HK-47 simply was not as good as he was in the first game. There are two youtube videos, one show's HK's "best" Quotes from kotor 1. The next shows his quotes from 2.

The first has so much more material that was honestly funny then the second. Though there are a few gems. He simply doesn't have as much.

GOTO isn't really amusing except for a few times. He's the "serious" Character.

Mandalore only has a few lines. Though helping him gather the mandalorians was fun.

T3 only speaks in beeps and whistles so he can't annoy me.

I will admit to liking Onderon and parts of dantooine.

Korriban just got on my nerves as it was basically one quest... that's it. A whole planet for one quest.

Telos was ok but because most of it is done by the time I got anyone I enjoyed having around...

The ending just stunk because most of my party vanishes for no apparent reason. Including HK-47 and GOTO. Who never come back.

[Manga Maniac]

KotOR II is very almost a brilliant game. But it suffers from a bad ending because the game was rushed. Judging by some of the drafts of the endings, properly completed it would've been totally kick-ass. As it stands, the party seems to vanish and a lot of plotlines are left hanging. Kreia was still awesome though.

Anyone know where I can download the cut content mod? Also, as a fan of continuity, is any of the cut content considered "canon"?

[Om]

KotORII was a horribly flawed game that was released almost half-finished. Most of the ending was simply missing and the most fleshed out areas were boring re-enactments of KotOR. Despite that it is still one of the best RPGs I've ever played and, IMO, a better game than the original. It's one of those games where the writing, story and intent shine through despite the mangled execution.


Then there are all the stupid deaths. Oh you set this trap to overload this terminal to kill the swarm of laigreks chasing you? Well it also explodes the two rooms next to it and the hallway nd the lightning arcs a ridiculous distance, as well as being an instant kill. It is an instant kill even when I used cheats to boost my level and CON to get my HP into the 700 rangeSo don't be in any of the rooms when the lightening goes off...


And more than anything else I hated the idea that Revan never really fell to the Dark Side, but rather became a conquering monster for the greater goodNo, it's quite clear that Revan did fall to the DS. What KotORII introduces, or at least employs, is the notion that 'falling to the DS' is slightly more nuanced than simply dressing in black and laughing manically

You may have a point with the "infallible ubermensch" but this was something definitely introduced in the original. The extent of Revan's abilities were already well established through Canderous Ordo's tales and the like. All the sequel did was posit that there might be more to Revan's brilliant campaigns than 'must crush capitalism the Republic!'

[druid91]

KotORII was a horribly flawed game that was released almost half-finished. Most of the ending was simply missing and the most fleshed out areas were boring re-enactments of KotOR. Despite that it is still one of the best RPGs I've ever played and, IMO, a better game than the original. It's one of those games where the writing, story and intent shine through despite the mangled execution.

So don't be in any of the rooms when the lightening goes off...

No, it's quite clear that Revan did fall to the DS. What KotORII introduces, or at least employs, is the notion that 'falling to the DS' is slightly more nuanced than simply dressing in black and laughing manically

You may have a point with the "infallible ubermensch" but this was something definitely introduced in the original. The extent of Revan's abilities were already well established through Canderous Ordo's tales and the like. All the sequel did was posit that there might be more to Revan's brilliant campaigns than 'must crush capitalism the Republic!'

There were more stupid deaths and delays than just that one.

Like even though I like onderon, the portion with the force fields on the sky ramp was irritating. I get there, didn't know I could cut through them with a lightsaber, and didn't have The Iridonian. Bao Dur! That's his name...

But I didn't have Boa dur so I sat there... for hours trying to find something I must have missed until I decided to search the internet to find out how to get past this stupid thing.

The portion with Atton, who seems relatively unimportant save for the fact that he was the second character you meet. A safe choice for someone who's gear to neglect. Wham he gets dropped into a two on one fight with those Twilek bounty hunters.
It took me abusing prior knowledge and unequipping one of my main characters weapons to give him half a shot of winning.
And then I didn't get a chance to remove it from attons inventory before he takes off.

Then there is the fight between Handmaiden and her sisters.

Basically Every single time the party splits up the group that doesn't have the main character, Even if I load it down with characters I use a lot, usually has a hard time.

And it happens a lot in many of the levels. Nar shadaa, Onderon, Telos, For more than half the game I'm missing the characters I've attached to and stuck with the characters the Dev team wanted me to be attached to.

Ironically I agree with your point on how it still remains good. My problem is that it's very... Focused.

Why Can't I choose HK-47 to lead the Team to the temple? If it's because he doesn't have the force, niether do atton or Handmaiden most of the time.

IF its because he doesn't have a big reveal where he is sensitive to the force... niether does Visas. And in addition why not mandalore? Or Bao Dur? The last has the advantage of actually being force sensitive himself If I have heard right.

And finally Kriea, why not send Kriea? She's usually the second most powerful member of my team by virtue of force powers. Why not send the Lightning spewing Engine of chaos death and destruction that is Kriea? Because she has to follow you.


But no, you are meant to like these three characters. And to some extent like Kriea as well.

[Squark]

Why Can't I choose HK-47 to lead the Team to the temple? If it's because he doesn't have the force, niether do atton or Handmaiden most of the time.

IF its because he doesn't have a big reveal where he is sensitive to the force... niether does Visas. And in addition why not mandalore? Or Bao Dur? The last has the advantage of actually being force sensitive himself If I have heard right.

And finally Kriea, why not send Kriea? She's usually the second most powerful member of my team by virtue of force powers. Why not send the Lightning spewing Engine of chaos death and destruction that is Kriea? Because she has to follow you.


But no, you are meant to like these three characters. And to some extent like Kriea as well.

Putting HK-47 in charge... ...

What, do you want everyone on that part to die??? (Actually, you probably wouldn't mind that. no offense meant). HK-47 has none of the necessary qualities of a leader. To be honest, Mandalore makes the most sense for that mission, since he's the one with actual leadership experience. But Atton at least has some experience working as part of a military team. Visas and Mira, though, really don't have any business leading it, you're right. TBH, the rational for choosing the leader doesn't make much sense.

And Kreia goes with you because... Because she's the boss, and she said she's going with you (also, she has a personal reason for going- Doesn't she save one of the guy's life there to use against you?)

[doliest]

And more than anything else I hated the idea that Revan never really fell to the Dark Side, but rather became a conquering monster for the greater good. It destroys the whole "Quest For Redemption"/"Even The Great Can Fall" theme of KOTOR 1. And it makes the protagonist of KOTOR 1 into an infallible ubermensch rather than a flawed human being.


It's been a while but if my memory serves the only person who really says Revan never fell is Kreia.

Allow me to make a point on why I love this game that mixes well with why that isn't a problem for me.

Kreia lies. Kreia lies about everything. She is a lying liar who lies. After the third time I played through KOTOR 2, I came to the conclusion that nothing Kreia says should ever be taken at face value. Or, indeed, at the first thing you think of AFTER face value. Really, to me, Kreia is the best written character in any game. EVER. Without fail. Just because her philosphy is so...interesting in a Star Wars verse, and she's so deceitful.

I liked the Influence system since, really, to me, it encouraged roleplaying. It gives you an idea of what your party really thinks of what you say and do. I prefer the Friendship/Rival meter in DA2, but I take what I can get.

So yeah, the game has flaws, but I rank it as among the best RPGs I've ever played.

[Toastkart]

Kreia lies. Kreia lies about everything. She is a lying liar who lies. After the third time I played through KOTOR 2, I came to the conclusion that nothing Kreia says should ever be taken at face value. Or, indeed, at the first thing you think of AFTER face value. Really, to me, Kreia is the best written character in any game. EVER. Without fail. Just because her philosphy is so...interesting in a Star Wars verse, and she's so deceitful

This is what I love about this game, and about Kreia in particular. What really gets me, though, is that most of the people who I've talked to about this game agree that Kreia is a liar, but because of that, everyone else in the game must be telling the truth. What I find so incredibly refreshing is that the Jedi Masters are wrong about everything, and they're so wrong you have to wonder if they're not lying to the Exile.


The portion with Atton, who seems relatively unimportant save for the fact that he was the second character you meet. A safe choice for someone who's gear to neglect. Wham he gets dropped into a two on one fight with those Twilek bounty hunters.
That caught me by surprise the first time, too. Atton is actually very important for a female Exile. He's a borderline love interest for her, although in the end, Disciple, for some reason I can't fathom, is the one the Exile meditates with at the end. Atton was so much more fun, I really dislike that you can't choose.


Basically Every single time the party splits up the group that doesn't have the main character, Even if I load it down with characters I use a lot, usually has a hard time.
That's because the Exile is so much more powerful than everyone else. Also, it helps if you turn your companions into Jedi at the earliest opportunity.


No, it's quite clear that Revan did fall to the DS. What KotORII introduces, or at least employs, is the notion that 'falling to the DS' is slightly more nuanced than simply dressing in black and laughing manically
This. I also really loved this about the game. This game really took a step back from the light side is good and the dark side is evil and made it just as much about the Jedi and the Sith being opposing factions. You kind of have to look for it, but there were so many times I felt like every time something was done that the Jedi Council didn't approve of, the person was labeled as having 'fallen to the dark side'. It made the setting so much more rich.

[druid91]

Putting HK-47 in charge... ...

What, do you want everyone on that part to die??? (Actually, you probably wouldn't mind that. no offense meant). HK-47 has none of the necessary qualities of a leader. To be honest, Mandalore makes the most sense for that mission, since he's the one with actual leadership experience. But Atton at least has some experience working as part of a military team. Visas and Mira, though, really don't have any business leading it, you're right. TBH, the rational for choosing the leader doesn't make much sense.

And Kreia goes with you because... Because she's the boss, and she said she's going with you (also, she has a personal reason for going- Doesn't she save one of the guy's life there to use against you?)

Good point, but really jedi need to be dead and he is a jedi killing droid. Seems like a good choice.

No I don't think so, the only time I remember her saving someone is on Nar Shadaa.

I really think one thing I miss is the range of characters. Depending on the characters you chose to be around would determine the feel of the game. Bastila and Carth? Dark And dramatic. Jolee bindo and HK-47? Light hearted Comedic.

The characters could change the way it felt and that just didn't happen here.

Don't get me wrong I like it... It just Irritates me. I wish I understood enough to recreate Kotor 1 with Kotor 2. Because I like the mechanics. I even like a few bits and pieces. The parts where you were helping with a battle are particularly fun.

But after that the game sorta falls apart at the edges. It's got solid bits. But it's overall very fragile.

[VanBuren]

HK was more black comedy than light comedy.

[druid91]

HK was more black comedy than light comedy.

Yes but he was indeed comedic. He'd make you laugh. Just like Jolee.

He wasn't as serious as others.

[SowZ]

I enjoyed the game. It was well done, but had some serious flaws no the least of which was the ending and some characters left undeveloped. It wasn't as good as KOTOR I. I still like it.

[Seerow]

Yes but he was indeed comedic. He'd make you laugh. Just like Jolee.

He wasn't as serious as others.

Statement: HK-47 was not comedic. He was very serious. It is a well known fact that droids do not have a sense of humor. That is reserved for meatbags.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

IF its because he doesn't have a big reveal where he is sensitive to the force... niether does Visas. Wait, what?

Visas is introduced as a Force Sensitive Sith Apprentice. I mean, I haven't played the game in a while, but I'm pretty sure her first scene is her walking up to Nihlus and saying, more or less, "I feel a great disturbance in the Force."

[druid91]

Wait, what?

Visas is introduced as a Force Sensitive Sith Apprentice. I mean, I haven't played the game in a while, but I'm pretty sure her first scene is her walking up to Nihlus and saying, more or less, "I feel a great disturbance in the Force."

Exactly. She is already a force user, A sith no less. Quite a lot of the dialogue makes no sense for her. She's already a sith.Trained in the force. Even the darkside. So... the sith lord stops making sense. It's a Duh moment. Of course she has some talent for the force, she's a sith.

The other two choices have the fact that they could have the big reveal of them being capable of using the force there. That's what I meant. The other two start off normal.

[Philistine]

I mean it's all good and I'm having fun... then I get to the end and bam the whole game just falls to pieces and I have no Idea what's going on.
Point of interest: KotOR2 was originally scheduled to be out in Spring 2004, and right through the summer of 2003, every single press release and interview talked about Q1/Q2 2004. Then, about late September-October of 2003, the ads all suddenly changed to "Coming for the 2003 Holiday Season." The obvious conclusion to draw here is that the publisher pulled the rug out from under the developers shortly after they passed the halfway point of the planned development cycle. It's no wonder the game feels unfinished - it isn't finished.

The fun thing is that a lot of the relevant files were included on the CD when it shipped; and since then a lot of those resources have made it into various content restoration mods. But to the best of my knowledge, none of the restored material has any canon standing whatsoever.


I hated how the influence system worked, and how it steered me away from roleplaying properly and speaking my mind, so as not to alienate the characters and lose out on their dialogue options.

I hated that the game basically forces you to agree with all of Kreia's crap in order to get unique Feats.

You're still wrong about this, just as you have been every other time you've brought the subject up. KotOR2's influence system gives the exact same rewards for negative influence as for positive. The exact same. Disagreeing with "Kreia's crap" gets you those unique Feats just as surely as agreeing with her. Your panic when you see "Influence Lost" scrolling up the screen is not the game's fault.


Like even though I like onderon, the portion with the force fields on the sky ramp was irritating. I get there, didn't know I could cut through them with a lightsaber, and didn't have The Iridonian. Bao Dur! That's his name...

But I didn't have Boa dur so I sat there... for hours trying to find something I must have missed until I decided to search the internet to find out how to get past this stupid thing.

The portion with Atton, who seems relatively unimportant save for the fact that he was the second character you meet. A safe choice for someone who's gear to neglect. Wham he gets dropped into a two on one fight with those Twilek bounty hunters.
It took me abusing prior knowledge and unequipping one of my main characters weapons to give him half a shot of winning.
And then I didn't get a chance to remove it from attons inventory before he takes off.

Then there is the fight between Handmaiden and her sisters.

Basically Every single time the party splits up the group that doesn't have the main character, Even if I load it down with characters I use a lot, usually has a hard time.

And it happens a lot in many of the levels. Nar shadaa, Onderon, Telos, For more than half the game I'm missing the characters I've attached to and stuck with the characters the Dev team wanted me to be attached to.

Ironically I agree with your point on how it still remains good. My problem is that it's very... Focused.

Why Can't I choose HK-47 to lead the Team to the temple? If it's because he doesn't have the force, niether do atton or Handmaiden most of the time.

IF its because he doesn't have a big reveal where he is sensitive to the force... niether does Visas. And in addition why not mandalore? Or Bao Dur? The last has the advantage of actually being force sensitive himself If I have heard right.

And finally Kriea, why not send Kriea? She's usually the second most powerful member of my team by virtue of force powers. Why not send the Lightning spewing Engine of chaos death and destruction that is Kriea? Because she has to follow you.

But no, you are meant to like these three characters. And to some extent like Kriea as well.

It's not that they're trying to force you to like any particular character or characters; what they are doing is forcing you to mix up your team. A problem some people have with KotOR1 is that you recruit all these characters to join your quest... and then for most players, most of the time, most of these NPCs just sit on the Ebon Hawk for the rest of the game while Revan and his Chosen Two carry out the actual missions. It didn't make a lot of sense. So Obsidian very deliberately set out to shake that up: some missions required you to travel with a different mix of companions, others had the Exile temporarily out of the picture while an NPC, or a squad of NPCs, performed some story-critical task. Some people hated it, but I really liked it - the climax of Onderon-Dxun was one of the "Star Wars-iest" moments in both games, recalling the Endor battle(s) in Ep6.

[deuxhero]

Despite the (lack of) ending, it's still better than the first game.

[SowZ]

Despite the (lack of) ending, it's still better than the first game.

First game was great. It had a few major flaws some people pretend don't exist, but KOTOR was very good.

[deuxhero]

If by major flaws you mean "Both combat and dialog are pointless". Combat is "select attack repeatedly" (on some mobs you should also buff beforehand) and repeated forever and ever (seriously, someone needs to smack Bioware's encounter designers upside the head. Lot of enemies that take no effort to kill repeated forever and don't drop anything of value is not good design), and it's not like you have other options anyways.

Dialoge suffers from the other classic Bioware problem: Everything goes the exact same way bar a few light/dark points and credits (which are in ammounts so small its meaningless).

If the main points of the game are both broken, your game is broken.


While the combat system is just as bad in 2, there is a lot less filler combat. The dialoge however, is much improved. Quests have meaningful changes opened via skills and force powers.

[Trazoi]

A completed KoTOR 2 would have been one of my favourite RPGs of all time (Kreia was awesome). There was a brilliant game in that buggy incomplete mess, but what was shipped was inexcusable. It simply should not have made it past QA, and made me never trust a Lucasarts game ever again.


Point of interest: KotOR2 was originally scheduled to be out in Spring 2004, and right through the summer of 2003, every single press release and interview talked about Q1/Q2 2004. Then, about late September-October of 2003, the ads all suddenly changed to "Coming for the 2003 Holiday Season." The obvious conclusion to draw here is that the publisher pulled the rug out from under the developers shortly after they passed the halfway point of the planned development cycle. It's no wonder the game feels unfinished - it isn't finished.
I do remember some rumours at the time, when everyone was pointing fingers, that Obsidian might have originally agreed to the 2003 holiday release when they first got the deal to make the game. This however was a ridiculously short time for an RPG development (less than a year?), even if they were reusing the engine, so I'm not sure of the validity of that claim. It was however very clear that Obsidian had asked for and believed they had until Q2 2004 later on, and that some executive at Lucasarts later demanded at short notice that holiday season release to make up the sales numbers. The game was clearly unfinished, rushed and hadn't gone though a proper QA cycle on the publishers end.

[druid91]

If by major flaws you mean "Both combat and dialog are pointless". Combat is "select attack repeatedly" (on some mobs you should also buff beforehand) and repeated forever and ever (seriously, someone needs to smack Bioware's encounter designers upside the head. Lot of enemies that take no effort to kill repeated forever and don't drop anything of value is not good design), and it's not like you have other options anyways.

Dialoge suffers from the other classic Bioware problem: Everything goes the exact same way bar a few light/dark points and credits (which are in ammounts so small its meaningless).

If the main points of the game are both broken, your game is broken.


While the combat system is just as bad in 2, there is a lot less filler combat. The dialoge however, is much improved. Quests have meaningful changes opened via skills and force powers.

The same could be said of quite a few points in Kotor 2.

Everything goes the same until you hit one of your choice points. Yes they did better for having more of them but otherwise it's the same, and it actually got on my nerves having every little thing affecting my alignment score. I earned my mastery I want to be able to have a civil non-insulting conversation with someone without losing it because of light-side points.

Besides, how is the dialogue pointless in kotor 1? I mean there is no influence system but it didn't really need it.

So you mean the exact same encounter design that Kotor 2 is rife with? They made it slightly more interesting on Dantooine and Onderon and a couple of other places by giving other objectives, but otherwise that's all it is.

To be honest I like the game. It sucks me in and I get playing. And then one of the parts that forces me out of character comes along. And I hate that.

[Cespenar]

I agree with many of the stated failures of the second game.

And it still would enter my top 20 list, if I ever had one. Funny.

[SowZ]

If by major flaws you mean "Both combat and dialog are pointless". Combat is "select attack repeatedly" (on some mobs you should also buff beforehand) and repeated forever and ever (seriously, someone needs to smack Bioware's encounter designers upside the head. Lot of enemies that take no effort to kill repeated forever and don't drop anything of value is not good design), and it's not like you have other options anyways.

Dialoge suffers from the other classic Bioware problem: Everything goes the exact same way bar a few light/dark points and credits (which are in ammounts so small its meaningless).

If the main points of the game are both broken, your game is broken.


While the combat system is just as bad in 2, there is a lot less filler combat. The dialoge however, is much improved. Quests have meaningful changes opened via skills and force powers.

Eh, the dialogue options were to help you get into character and immerse yourself into the story. At least, that is what they ended up doing. You are right in that they didn't have too much impact. I felt like they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed the combat. At the hardest difficulty setting, strategy could become important as long as you limited yourself from using expendable items. That is, if you stocked up on enough life support packs and grenades you could win any fight with no problems. That was a design flaw. It wasn't the only one, but it was the quickest way to imbalance the combat.

KOTOR would go in my top twenty, too. Top ten, probably.

[druid91]

Eh, the dialogue options were to help you get into character and immerse yourself into the story. At least, that is what they ended up doing. You are right in that they didn't have too much impact. I felt like they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed the combat. At the hardest difficulty setting, strategy could become important as long as you limited yourself from using expendable items. That is, if you stocked up on enough life support packs and grenades you could win any fight with no problems. That was a design flaw. It wasn't the only one, but it was the quickest way to imbalance the combat.

KOTOR would go in my top twenty, too. Top ten, probably.

Yeah it was a little jarring when after getting my head handed to me a couple times I realized I had a ton of thermal detonaters and simply tossed them all at malak.

[SITB]

Atton, was just kind of bland, I didn't hate him like some of the new characters (Mira/hanharr I'm looking at you)

So, is Carth bland too? Because they are both the Han-Solo archtype, except one gets more character then " I do not trust you! I cannot trust you, or anyone else ever again!"


Mira was just plain annoying, like an older mission.

I'd rather take 'bounty hunter with the heart of gold' then a tag-along kid though.


Hanharr was also annoying, like Zaalbar without the character and EVIL added.

Zaalbar had character? I mean, at least Hanharr had his messed up view on the Wookie life pact, while Zaalbar is basically copy pasted noble savage.


The iridonian (Dangit I can only remember what HK called him.) Was just kind of boring, the others you could talk to without having around all the time... but he had to be with you on adventures to get even basic conversations. Unless he was interacting with someone else.

True, Bao-Dur doesn't have a lot of characterization, apart from reinforcing the fact that the PC has a past.


Kriea... Yeah she simply screamed betrayer from the beginning.

Like when she told you this?


Visas... Was visas. I ignored her for the whole trip. I left her shut in that little room all on her own. The only interaction I had with her was to cut the lightsaber out of her hand. And she still pulled the lovebird lines out.

If you never used her, how do you know what her character arc is?


Handmaiden, not quite as annoying as Visas, more like Atton.

Did you actually talked to those characters? Saying the the Handmaiden and Atton are bland while saying that Zaalbar had actual character seems incredibly weird to me.


Even of those characters I liked HK-47 simply was not as good as he was in the first game. There are two youtube videos, one show's HK's "best" Quotes from kotor 1. The next shows his quotes from 2.

The first has so much more material that was honestly funny then the second. Though there are a few gems. He simply doesn't have as much.

HK-47 is much more jokingly evil in the first game, and much more serious/black-comedy/insulting the PC in the second, different humor.

Also, in the second game he gets a lot of awesome moments as opposed to the first one.


GOTO isn't really amusing except for a few times. He's the "serious" Character.

True.


Mandalore only has a few lines. Though helping him gather the mandalorians was fun.

I do recall that the game was bugged in a way that meant you don't get influence by recruiting the mandalorians, which meant a lot of content is locked. Unless you change the influence values directly.


T3 only speaks in beeps and whistles so he can't annoy me.

He does have an actual character now, namely loyalty to KOTOR1 PC.


Korriban just got on my nerves as it was basically one quest... that's it. A whole planet for one quest.

Yeah, having a planet dedicated to exploring the PC motivations/past and allowing you decide what he believed is a terrible idea, we need more PC that are amnesic player avatars. </sarcasm>


The ending just stunk because most of my party vanishes for no apparent reason. Including HK-47 and GOTO. Who never come back.

Most of the ending was cut.The HK factory, Atton's duel, the remaining party members confrontation with Kriea...


The same could be said of quite a few points in Kotor 2.

Everything goes the same until you hit one of your choice points. Yes they did better for having more of them but otherwise it's the same, and it actually got on my nerves having every little thing affecting my alignment score. I earned my mastery I want to be able to have a civil non-insulting conversation with someone without losing it because of light-side points.

Besides, how is the dialogue pointless in kotor 1? I mean there is no influence system but it didn't really need it.

More choice is better good.

Playing a psychopath PC in the first game wherein you destroyed everything that you touched with no repercussion until the last area, is dumb as hell. At least KOTOR 2 justfied the reason why the PC affected the party members the way he did and tied it up to a major plot point.

RE Influence: Having the ability to ignore your party members up until a specified point in time when suddenly they will decide to share more back-story with you despite the fact that you never use them or belittle them is also dumb. Hell, KOTOR 2 actually had it that negative influence still unlocks the content for the characters.

The major point is choices and repercussions , KOTOR 2 had more repercussion to your choices then the first game.

[druid91]

So, is Carth bland too? Because they are both the Han-Solo archtype, except one gets more character then " I do not trust you! I cannot trust you, or anyone else ever again!"



I'd rather take 'bounty hunter with the heart of gold' then a tag-along kid though.



Zaalbar had character? I mean, at least Hanharr had his messed up view on the Wookie life pact, while Zaalbar is basically copy pasted noble savage.



True, Bao-Dur doesn't have a lot of characterization, apart from reinforcing the fact that the PC has a past.



Like when she told you this?



If you never used her, how do you know what her character arc is?



Did you actually talked to those characters? Saying the the Handmaiden and Atton are bland while saying that Zaalbar had actual character seems incredibly weird to me.



Yeah, having a planet dedicated to exploring the PC motivations/past and allowing you decide what he believed is a terrible idea, we need more PC that are amnesic player avatars. </sarcasm>



Most of the ending was cut.The HK factory, Atton's duel, the remaining party members confrontation with Kriea...



More choice is better good.

Playing a psychopath PC in the first game wherein you destroyed everything that you touched with no repercussion until the last area, is dumb as hell. At least KOTOR 2 justfied the reason why the PC affected the party members the way he did and tied it up to a major plot point.

RE Influence: Having the ability to ignore your party members up until a specified point in time when suddenly they will decide to share more back-story with you despite the fact that you never use them or belittle them is also dumb. Hell, KOTOR 2 actually had it that negative influence still unlocks the content for the characters.

The major point is choices and repercussions , KOTOR 2 had more repercussion to your choices then the first game.

Yep didn't like him much either. And Atton is the same for most of the game.

Maybe it's the voice and the attitude, but they seem very similar to me.

Hanharr: I was taken slave by humans who abused wookie life-debts. Now I must make them slaves and make them pay!

Zaalbar: My home was being taken advantage of by slavers and my brother was helping them In my anger I clawed him and was exiled. Now I can never return. But then I do and I save/destroy my tribe.

Yep.

Because it gets forced on you. At the end even though I didn't use her she showed up to talk to the exile.

Yep, even unlocked both on my light side play through. You know what happened? I still disliked them. Atton was Carth with a twist. And Handmaiden has a character motivation that might have worked... if it wasn't outright told to me that she never knew her parents.

Having that be a large part of the planet I wouldn't mind. But There are litterally two quests on the whole planet. The cave and the Academy. Only the first of which is any fun.

I realize that. Why I got the restored content mod.

I can agree with that, but I want to be able to maintain my hard won dark side mastery without having to electrocute kittens every five minutes to remind people I'm evil. I liked the chances it gave for clever evil. But the light side points it handed out for not choosing to stab people annoyed me.

On the flip side of that it didn't take into account player favoritism. I want to be able to pick favorites and have the story influenced by that. Maybe tales of symphonia spoiled me.

[Jeivar]

You're still wrong about this, just as you have been every other time you've brought the subject up. KotOR2's influence system gives the exact same rewards for negative influence as for positive. The exact same. Disagreeing with "Kreia's crap" gets you those unique Feats just as surely as agreeing with her. Your panic when you see "Influence Lost" scrolling up the screen is not the game's fault.


Hm. I'd assumed that characters would actually have to LIKE me to be willing to talk. Kind of like how communication actually works. Maybe I should have checked, but I don't think it was a foolish assumption to make, and it's not enough to make me suddenly like the game.

And no need to use the word "panic".

[Seerow]

So... anyone want to give details on what the cut content was supposed to be? I had the xbox version of the KotOR games, so can't play the mods.

[druid91]

So... anyone want to give details on what the cut content was supposed to be? I had the xbox version of the KotOR games, so can't play the mods.

I'm nearly to the end with the mod installed, I haven't seen everything but there is more little pieces of Dialogue here and there, as well as a return of the HK-50 plant.
It was that locked hallway in the Telos military base. Also HK-47 got his own personal army of HK-51s. With his personality.

A few sidequests and characters were added,
A young jedi girl living in the sublevel on dantooine who you can push over the edge to the dark side or convince to go find a master.

That and more HK-50 attacks. they get kinda repetitive after the first one with and the first one without HK-47.

I think there was more but I don't quite remember everything...

But in general more dialogue (Voiced too! Wasn't expecting that.) A few new side-quests, and I'm assuming from HK-47's experience with the HK-50s a more complete ending.

[Acanous]

On a trip up to Bioware, I once asked about KOTOR2 and what happened.

They were really not happy with having to release the game before it was finished, and had awesome plans for what to do with the plot. Apperently, they wanted to finish it up and re-release it later, tossing up a patch for the PC players, but execuitive meddling didn't want them to allocate the resources to a game that was already "Done". It left a bad tast in Bioware's mouth, and was a pretty big factor in why they decided to pursue their own IPs.

So the BS the devs had to deal with in KOTOR 2 is propably the reason we got Mass Effect instead of KOTOR 3.

[Spiryt]

It's damn to easy to annoy, with character(s) twinked out to the point of silly without trying at all....

Actually, with selling quite a lot of powerful stuff if I didn't like the look or something too much. I guess that counts as anti-trying. :smalltongue:

But yes, quite a bit of wasted potential.

I don't really have good idea what I did at the end, what was the point, and where 50% of plot went suddenly. Forgotten all about it quickly too.

[Toastkart]

On a trip up to Bioware, I once asked about KOTOR2 and what happened.

They were really not happy with having to release the game before it was finished, and had awesome plans for what to do with the plot. Apperently, they wanted to finish it up and re-release it later, tossing up a patch for the PC players, but execuitive meddling didn't want them to allocate the resources to a game that was already "Done". It left a bad tast in Bioware's mouth, and was a pretty big factor in why they decided to pursue their own IPs.

So the BS the devs had to deal with in KOTOR 2 is propably the reason we got Mass Effect instead of KOTOR 3.

er, Kotor 2 was developed by Obsidian, not Bioware. In fact, Bioware was working on Jade Empire at the same time that Obsidian was working on kotor 2.

[Rabidredneck]

So... anyone want to give details on what the cut content was supposed to be? I had the xbox version of the KotOR games, so can't play the mods.

You're looking for the Sith Lords Restored Content Mod or TSLRCM mod. Here's a link to whats been restored so far, it's a huge list..http://deadlystream.com/forum/topic/139-whats-restored-in-tslrcm/

The mods up to 1.7, they're working on a 1.8 now, and they've done an amazing job so far, considering what they had to work with.

Mod w/ links to small fixes..
http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/13-tslrcm/
http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/12-tslrcm-17-unofficial-fix/
http://deadlystream.com/forum/files/file/38-tslrcm-17-ravager-black-screen-fix/

And you'll want to read this thread as well, discussing which mods are compatible with TSLRCM. The droid fix mod is mandatory IMO..http://deadlystream.com/forum/topic/393-mod-compatibility-list-for-tslrcm-17/

[deuxhero]

So... anyone want to give details on what the cut content was supposed to be? I had the xbox version of the KotOR games, so can't play the mods.

When's your computer from? KotOR (and 2, which is actually better optimized), is OLD.

[Seerow]

When's your computer from? KotOR (and 2, which is actually better optimized), is OLD.

Yes, my computer could run it. However I am not buying another copy of a game I already own and have played through a few times to play a mod. I'd rather just get a tl;dr summary of how the ending was supposed to play out according to the mods.

[druid91]

Yes, my computer could run it. However I am not buying another copy of a game I already own and have played through a few times to play a mod. I'd rather just get a tl;dr summary of how the ending was supposed to play out according to the mods.

Well some of the information can be found on wookiepedia. Just search for hk-51 that should get you started.

[SITB]

Yep didn't like him much either. And Atton is the same for most of the game.

Maybe it's the voice and the attitude, but they seem very similar to me.

Yeah, because having a character that's playing the Han-Solo archtype and then find out that, surprise! He was part of the enemy elite forces that deserted when a Jedi 'tried to save him', except that he points out that you can't really trust a Jedi for all the crap they pulled in the past while showing what the rank-and-file of Raven's soldiers thought is truly one dimensional.


Hanharr: I was taken slave by humans who abused wookie life-debts. Now I must make them slaves and make them pay!

Zaalbar: My home was being taken advantage of by slavers and my brother was helping them In my anger I clawed him and was exiled. Now I can never return. But then I do and I save/destroy my tribe.

That isn't Hanharr motivation, at all.

He was taken as a slave by the corporation and escaped. Except that he decided that having slaves in the end is a pretty good way to say f*ck all other races forever. His animosity for people whom he owes life-debts towards is because the debt itself make him a slave again, except this time he can't break free of his chains because the slavery is mental. He hates Mira because by owing a life debt to her he has to follow her commands by the Wookie honor system and thus he is her slave.


Because it gets forced on you. At the end even though I didn't use her she showed up to talk to the exile.

So? You still have no idea why she did that in the first place. How can you judge her without knowing anything about her.


Yep, even unlocked both on my light side play through. You know what happened? I still disliked them. Atton was Carth with a twist. And Handmaiden has a character motivation that might have worked... if it wasn't outright told to me that she never knew her parents.

Disliking them doesn't mean they are bland characters, and how did the Handmaiden motivation didn't work? She is excluded from the other handmaidens because of her father infidelity with her mother, she works under a Jedi master who continues to not teach them any knowledge of the force while simultaneously sends them to retrieve all knowledge of it. Add to the fact that Atris spoke of the Exile as the devil despite the fact that when the Handmaiden met him he isn't that and you have the reason why she wants to know more about her heritage.


Having that be a large part of the planet I wouldn't mind. But There are literally two quests on the whole planet. The cave and the Academy. Only the first of which is any fun.

The former is by far the most important one, while the latter is quick enough to go through. Or are you complaining that there isn't enough content in the planet itself? Not every planet needs to fe several hours slog through fetch quests to be interesting.


I can agree with that, but I want to be able to maintain my hard won dark side mastery without having to electrocute kittens every five minutes to remind people I'm evil. I liked the chances it gave for clever evil. But the light side points it handed out for not choosing to stab people annoyed me.

On the flip side of that it didn't take into account player favoritism. I want to be able to pick favorites and have the story influenced by that. Maybe tales of symphonia spoiled me.

ToS had like, 3 scenes which were influenced by player favoritism, 2 of them had actual story effect (More so if you choose Kratos). I don't think any other cRPG had those mechanics in the first place. KOTOR 2 is superior to the first one in the way that having higher influence (Or lower) changes the way that the companion treat you.

RE DS points: Are you talking about the Jedi council members? Because yeah, the game does assume that you abuse your newfound power to gorge yourself on the delicious Jedi Masters and tries to railroad you to do that.


Yes, my computer could run it. However I am not buying another copy of a game I already own and have played through a few times to play a mod. I'd rather just get a tl;dr summary of how the ending was supposed to play out according to the mods.

Here, read the LP. (http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/)

[SITB]

EDIT: I am a moron ignore this.

[Androgeus]

Yes, my computer could run it. However I am not buying another copy of a game I already own and have played through a few times to play a mod. I'd rather just get a tl;dr summary of how the ending was supposed to play out according to the mods.

There's an entire article (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cut_content_from_Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Rep ublic_II:_The_Sith_Lords) on wookipedia detailing all the deleted content

[Kish]

Hm. I'd assumed that characters would actually have to LIKE me to be willing to talk. Kind of like how communication actually works.
Oh, so you're making this post because you liked the post by Philistine that you're responding to then?

[Ashen Lilies]

Here, read the LP. (http://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/)

I really would recommend this, if you have the time. It's long, sure, but it includes basically all the content, with commentary, and is also hilarious.

[Jeivar]

Oh, so you're making this post because you liked the post by Philistine that you're responding to then?

No, because I'm polite.

And posting on a forum is a bit different from telling your life's story to someone face-to-face.